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Can you leave?
Depends on what the agreement was. Sometimes it’s: the elderly person can live in the house for the rest of her life, or as long as she wants. In that case, you can’t kick her out.
She might have given you the house in gratitude of what you did for her. She might feel you’re ungrateful in trying to kick her out.
Although she’s mentally ill, if she has the right medicine, she should be lucid/fine. As you know, they can have psychotic episodes. Periods of OK…Or periods of delusions.
I guess you feel she’s lucid now. If she’s not lucid right now, then she needs medical help. Someone who’s not lucid isn’t aware of their actions.
How old is your MIL?
Her mental illness is preventing her from seeing the connection between her behavior and your boundary (of removing her from her legal residence).
I agree with ventingisback that the deed might have been written in such a way as to protect her right to live there, so pull it out and read it. Maybe take it to a lawyer to review it to see if you have any options.
If MIL gets "bad enough" (threatening, delusional, hallucinating, other dangerous actions) that 911 can be called and she goes to the hospital/psych ward to get her behavior under control. At that point, you may be able to make the case to the hospital staff that she is an "unsafe" discharge. In which case no one goes to retrieve her to bring her home and you work with the hospital's social worker to transition her directly to a facility -- but a lot depends on other factors, like her age (if she's younger than 65) or if she's considered competent.
I know you've put up with a lot, but IMHO no one asks to be mentally ill, therefore mercy should be exercised. I wish you success in helping her and settling on the best arrangement. Sometimes in caregiving family members there is no good solution, only a "least bad" option.
The OP should grab her MIL's passport and put her on the plane. It's not for her to figure out who's going to take care of her in the old country.
True, no one asks to be mentally ill. No one asks to be abused either.
Mental illness does not excuse abusive behavior towards other people and no one has to be the caregiver to someone because they're mental.
You're spot on about calling 911 when the behavior becomes too much. Let the professionals deal with it.
If there is then you're in a real pickle. Many times elders give their properties away with the condition that they can have lifetime use of them. This is to make real estate a Medicaid-exempt asset.
Should there be such a stipulation with the deed, you will have to leave if you don't want to deal with MIL anymore.
You will still be responsible for the property though. Like the taxes and repairs to it.
You can sell the property though. The lifetime use usually will not apply if you are the actual owners. Most states require a certain amount of time to pass first. A real estate attorney can help you with that. Talk to one.
It's understandable that you want her out. I would too, but really you should drop that she's so ungrateful for everything you do for her.
She gave you and your husband a house. I had two husbands and neither of my MIL's gave me a house.
That being said, still no one has to tolerate abuse no matter what they've given you. When she talks down to you, talk down to her too. Tell her to shut the hell up. You don't have to jump to attention when she makes demands. Blow her off if she's acting up.
You say she has no respect for you and your husband. If that's true then have none for her.
I want to make sure you know that even though she gave you a house, that does not mean you are obligated to take care of her or be abused.
she’s also currently on bail, so I don’t know if that would help us remove her ? Her next court date is in September and I really don’t want to live with her that much longer.
From the limited info you gave so far, MIL gave you and your spouse her home, and you immediately want to kick the sick old woman out to the curb. Seems cruel, ungrateful,and immoral. Her lawyer even thinks that is legally wrong. So what's missing from your story?
Why didn't she sell the house and used the money?
OP, let her live in her house (until recently it was hers). And you and DH move out. I think you shouldn’t accept the gifted house and then kick her out.
If she changed her mind about flying to her country, that’s fine. She has every right to change her mind.
If you says strange things, then she’s not lucid: she needs medical help then. You said her meds don’t really help: that means you feel she’s not 100% lucid. I hope when she deeded the house, she was 100% lucid, otherwise it was a crime to accept her house.
There are many stories of manic people (bipolar) who suddenly gave their house away (but that’s because they weren’t thinking straight; they were having a manic episode).
If you believe that then you are incredibly naive, and if your husband chose to believe that then he is either deep in denial about his mother's mental health or he knew full well what he was doing and saw this as a vindictive opportunity for payback. Move back out on your own, you must have been managing that way before this "gift".
Preach, my friend. It sounds like a real grift to me too. I don't think the OP is incredibly naive, no.
There was a deal made.
A free house in exchange for a free home in it with caregiving.
Now the OP and her husband want to renege on that deal.
Give the house back then and buy your own. Like I said in a previous comment, I had two MIL's. Neither of them gave me a free house.
She has schizophrenic and has bipolar disorder, a past of poor spending habits, and clear lack of judgment yet your guys took the house as you said in another post your husband was going to inherent so you just spend up the process.
Which in my eyes shows what you guys really wanted. I hope this lawyer sticks to his guns.
If I was in your situation I would look into setting a trust with funds gained from house, help her get situated back home. Many things you can do, but kicking her out should not be one of them.
Right. OP, you wanted to speed up the process of kicking her out?
This is important:
You said her therapist said she’s OK to sign/deed. Only a psychiatrist, not a therapist, can judge whether on that day, she was OK to sign/deed. There are countless of BP/schiz stories, where the therapist didn’t notice at all that the person wasn’t well.
Also weird that you don’t mention her psychiatrist. Doesn’t she have one? She must have one. She needs meds, and those meds are very hard to get the right dosage.
Remember also, that you said you don’t think her meds help: that seems to mean you think she’s not 100% lucid/OK, and in that case she couldn’t make a wise & lucid decision about the house
Why should you move out? Because if she has a right to live there, YOU should move out. It was nice of her to give you her house, but SHE (if she has a right to live there, and she probably does), has priority. The house wasn’t given to you to kick her out. It was very likely given to you - BUT she gets to live there as long as she wants (that also means she can demand that you don’t live there).
It’s impossible that you took good care of her AND you don’t know if she has a therapist or a psychiatrist.
By the way, a therapist CAN’T prescribe PB/schiz meds. By the way, the dosage must be constantly monitored (must see psychiatrist often). That means you and DH never took her to her paychiatrust? Never made sure the dosage is OK?
Also now you say, you don’t know whether it’s the meds that aren’t working, or she’s just mean: in other words, you HAVE NO IDEA if she’s lucid/OK, and you HAVE NO IDEA if she was lucid/OK to sign.
Also, why do you need to move? The house is in your name, you say? That sounds very much like you tricked her. Even when an elderly person gives a house, they often have a RIGHT to live there for life! That means THEY live there, not you. That means so long as they’re alive, YOU ARE THE GUEST.
If she has a right to live there, YOU ARE ONLY A GUEST.
From the outside looking in it seems like you are the ones taking advantage of your MIL, and that is not fair to you but without all the facts and details that is how this looks. Random people on the internet do not need that level of information but to give advice that is the level of info people will need. So better off seeking a lawyer.
he’ll protect her right to stay in the house.
So OP has already consulted that lawyer. Now OP was just hoping to find a way to go against that lawyer.
Is she angry because she feels you’re trying to kick her out? Is she angry because she doesn’t like you, you don’t like her, so you’re both trying to kick each other out “first”?
Listen OP, she gave you the house. That’s very kind. She deserves to live in the house if she wants to, and legally the law might say she has. RIGHT to stay, and you don’t.
For those who wonder why MIL didn’t get criminal charges for knife pulling: simple, she wasn’t well, she was sick at the time, PB/schiz episode. With PB/schiz you have periods of OK…periods of delusions/not OK.
But OP is trying to kick MIL out so OP can stay.
:(
And since she transferred her deed to you, does she even have enough money to live in her country for the remainder of her life?
I don’t think OP cares about that at all.
I'm sorry, but it sounds more like your intention to move east was primary just to get the house in your name. Your situation wasn't properly thought out and now it's in disarray. Your mother-in-law has mental health issues and it doesn't sound as if she has this stabilized - and you're not really taking care of her because you have no idea about her medications and how to manage this. Plus, you think she's only around 63 years old - have you and your husband worked out her financials to even know if she's capable of living out her life on her savings without having proceeds from selling her house rather than giving it away ? What is the worth of the house?
Her lawyer had specific provisions to this transaction - she is to live in the house and be taken care of, correct? It seems that's your role in owning the house - the house comes with conditions - nothing in life comes free - accept it or consider moving back west where you were before this.
Do you think you're being fair to your MIL - or was this set-up done selfishly and haphazardly - setting up a chaotic situation? I think there's been a lot of immaturity here on you and your husband's part, sadly.
And I didn’t even know this part: “I just read you say that you moved to the east coast to "take care of her"???...and you've only been living there for 3 months and now it's time for her to leave as soon as the deed was transferred to you?”
So why? Something is missing here.
In order to try to get the house.
As I just wrote to another poster (who’s considering moving into an elderly, billionaire’s home)…
”OP, once you move in, you’re kind of responsible. If you want to leave, and no one is replacing you, you might have to contact APS. You can’t just leave and abandon her.”
Well in your case OP, you got the house deeded to you, and you’re now not only trying to abandon her, you’re trying to kick her out of her own home. It doesn’t matter that you managed to change the deed to your name. MIL still has a right to live there. And you can’t just abandon her, with all her health issues. You moved to her house. Hence you became kind of responsible for her, and you can’t neglect her health. It looks like what you made sure you didn’t neglect is to get the house.
1. "My mother-in-law is schizophrenic and has bipolar disorder".
2. Selling or changing ownership of property is a major financial decision.
3. Being able to understand an issue, weigh up the options & communicate the decision are needed.
4. Sz can effect processing, planning & judgement (executive functioning).
5. Signing over a house deed but not wanting to leave would raise converns the person may not have understood the agreement.
I hope this woman has an advocate to ensure her rights are proteced.
OR she understood the agreement very well:
She has a RIGHT to stay there as long as she wants. That means OP is a guest.
As OP said:
“The lawyer who made the deed for us was saying he’d protect her if we tried to “kick her out.””
IN OTHER WORDS, MIL has a right to live there as long as she wants.
“Many issues here,
1. "My mother-in-law is schizophrenic and has bipolar disorder".
There are many ugly stories, where people take advantage of a BP/schiz person giving away their house.
:(
As an example, people in a manic phase (BP) are famous for giving away their property, and spending lots of money. It’s not easy at all to notice whether someone is manic; sometimes it can be subtle. They can sound coherent.
But regardless of whether MIL was of sound mind when she gave away her house, it’s very ugly of you OP to try to kick MIL out of her own home. It’s NOT all about who’s name is on the deed.
Like Beatty, I also hope MIL’s lawyer is protecting her rights.
I should say that the right thing to do is to go to the doctor’s with her and discuss medication that she needs. If she won’t agree to let you be part of her medical planning then this is when I would leave it all behind. There are no more insane asylums and for good reason, but what happens to these people is anyone’s guess. Someone will take advantage of her if you can’t help her maintain mental health, but you have to keep your own sanity too. God bless you.
I want to back up to something OP said in an earlier post.
"The house wasn’t gifted either."
You said that your MIL "inherited" this house from her husband. For clarity - if she and her husband were married and they owned the home together and both names were on the deed - she didn't "inherit" the house - it was already hers regardless of his passing. So there is that.
HOWEVER, if you DH was going to "inherit it anyway and you just sped things up...." your MIL had NOT passed away...so if you received the home without any money exchanging hands...that IS GIFTING. She GAVE you the house without any money changing hands and your DH did not inherit the home because he cannot inherit the home unless she passes away and the will states that it becomes his.
You mention that his father's will stated that he gets the house. Something is wonky unless you mean that your DH and his mother were currently SHARING ownership of the house, in which case she signed over HER half of the house. But the more likely scenario is that your DH was next in line to inherit AFTER the passing of his mother - in which case I'm still confused as to how HER sister ever has anything to do with the situation. Why would HER sister have any standing whatsoever?
Regardless, as others have mentioned - have you put your own eyes on the deed? Or the legal papers that were involved with the transfer of the deed? If the lawyer was so adamant that he was going to protect her, there is little doubt that he created a living trust around that home to allow her to live there until she dies and while it is in your name she has full rights to stay there and you can't legally kick her out. Not to mention that if she receives mail there - you will likely have to go through the eviction process if there isn't a living trust.
There is a lot of anger here - and to some extent I can understand that. But I'm also curious as to what, if any, steps she has taken to help her with her mental health? You say you moved across the country to take care of her, but now the relationship is so contentious that she has given you a home and she is fleeing the country. That's a big flip in such a short time. That sounds like a manic phase. Then she decides she's not going anywhere and she's rooted here. Her mental health is playing a big part in the ups and downs here.
I don't know what the answer is here. But I would certainly do my due diligence and know what the legalities are. Because you seem certain that you own the house outright and that she has no rights and you can just kick her to the curb and based on what you have shared, I'm just not sharing those certainties.
She gave away her home.
Now she has none, and the person she gave the home to doesn't care what happens to her.
This seems to me to be a tragedy. This looks like elder abuse to me to accept a home from an impaired elder, and then kick her out of it. I think that attorney may have an excellent case.
"The house was built by my husband’s father and my husband is in the Will so the house was going to go to him anyway"
You need to see a lawyer. You need to read your FILs Will. Was the house left to ur husband and his mother, if so they both should have been on the deed. Both sharing the cost of upkeep. Or, was it said
that Mom can remain in the home until her death and then the house reverts to the son? Was the lawyer who transferred the deed aware of the Will? Did he put a clause in the deed that Mom had a right to live there till her death. MIL can't go against how your FIL wrote his Will. I don't see where ur mom thought her sister would get the house if FILs Will stipulates his son gets it when the mother passes. If MIL has no Will, she dies intestate. The State determines who inherits and a son would inherit over a sibling.
You so need a lawyer to sort this all out. If MIL gets violent again, call the police and have her sent again to a psychic facility. Make them aware that she sees a therapist and that person prescribes her meds. Tell them how it is to live with in her day in and day out. Tell them she refuses to take her meds. Because you are afraid for your lives, she cannot come back to ur home. This is not kicking her out, this is protecting yourselves. If you have no DPOA, you may want to turn her care over to the State. She will hopefully get placed and help much quicker than you could do it. Don't let anyone tell you u must care for her. Or there is help out there, help for someone like MIL would be hard to find. You keep saying No.
I don't see where u have taken advantage of her. Seems the house would have been husbands eventually anyway. In the meantime though, she would have lost it somehow. So, you may have protected your husbands inheritance. But again, you need a lawyer to sort this all out so everything is on the up and up.