Pick and choose. My husband told me that my mother cannot live with us anymore or he will be the one to leave. Who do I choose?

beta that is great - you have responded to your husband's needs and if something like that can be worked out I think it is awesome.

i agree with waterstone- when my hubby started getting edgy i made sure mom gets up earlier and is in bed when he gets home make sure i get sitter once a week to go on dates and i dont complain to him cuz then he gets mad and wants me to make my brother who has his name on her house sell it and give me her share to help take care of her. i cant do it with a clear conscious cuz her $700 a month is more than enough to take care of her needs. so i complain to others-at least my brother i now helping out-staying the weekend so me and hubby can go camping this weekend

I am so sorry you are being given an ultimatum. My former therapist would say 'get creative' or 'get curious.' Why is your husband giving you an ultimatum? Did he make attempts to change things he didn't like before issuing the ultimatum? Do you know what exactly he objects to? Perhaps the problem isn't all-or-nothing. Perhaps there are small steps that can be taken to appease him. You have been issued an ultimatum, but it is up to you whether you accept this limitation of choices or if you can come up with a third choice. Would it help to talk with your husband and set a 3-month probationary period during which you address specifics? Getting mom out of the house more? Setting aside quality time just for him? Keeping mom out of the living room at night? I don't know - just throwing out some ideas. Ultimatums are sometimes a call for attention - either someone isn't talking or someone isn't listening. Something must have changed because he must have agreed to this at some point. Why isn't he okay with it now?

that might be a good title for a new thread but have to add a question - hmmm???

Reminds me of slogan on a t-shirt I wished I'd ordered: If I'd known my body was going to last this long, I'd have taken better care of it!

N1K2R3, I think there is some confusion here. First, most of us in the recent comments are not responding to Kinnella's post from last year, but a more recent post along similar lines. Secondly, I don't know who Crow is, but if you are referring to cmagnum's comments they were directed at a specific post, not at yours. I think that post did have the flavor of husbands-are-disposable, although that poster is welcome to add further explanation.

I'll admit that threads that run 70+ posts and have a change in direction after a year can get a little confusing. It is nice to see a new question in the context of an earlier discussion, but it might be less confusing if people with similar questions start a new thread. Either way, we all muddle through.

Crow, Come on! We were not advocating " throwing-away-the-husband" mentality. I was merely suggesting that he should be allowed to walk if he feels the need to get out. Notice that I did not say "Divorce" or "Formal Separation". If the husband feels that it is too much to have the elders live in the family home, then he can take a hike until such time as the elders get moved to another facility, or they are hospitalized or die, or choose to move out somewhere else. He'll be back (the husband). Life has a way of winding down and around.

What I would like to see it address, cmag, is solutions to the problems that jeanne laid out so well. Maybe something about new soutions to the challenges facing a society with increasing life expectancy. jeanne - you are good with words -any interest and or ideas?

What would be a good title for such a new thread?

Agree absolutely, jeanne. It is a new problem and needs new solutions - and we are in the midst of the problems without many new solutions in sight. We each, of course, respond in our own way. Being from a long lived family - my mother is 99 and going strong even after a recent hip op with full anaesthetic - I have given some thought to my future. I worked until last year - and would have worked longer if I had not had to take time out to relocate my mother several times. In retrospect I might have handled that differently. Nonetheless, this has ensured me a decent pension, (unless the economy fails totally) and kept me active and socially connected up to retiredment. I look after my own health especially regarding what I eat ( we have met over this subject before). and also as regards staying fit by keeping reasonably active. Keeping my mind busy has never been a challenge. Being somewhat of an introvert, being socially active is a little more difficult for me, but not one that cannot be over come. Having family around to visit helps that. I work to be an agreeable visitor and to be a grandma that my grandkids want to spend time with. These are some of my solutions on an individual basis. They are in line with what organizations like AARP recommend though not gleaned from there. To me, education about how our choices affect our future is sady lacking, and though it fits best as part of a long term solution, is, I think necessary. This topic might be worthy of its own thread. I think the consequences to society of the choices that we are making now, over the issues such as the originator of this thread posted, as far reaching.

If we want to get philosophical, I think society (and not just ours in the US) is entering a new era that we aren't necessarily well prepared for. The average life expectancy for a girl born this month is 84 years. Since that averages in all the deaths from childhood diseases and mishaps, all the deaths from plane crashes and cancers and natural disasters, we know that many, many people will live well past 84. We have always had people in their eighties and nineties, but not in the huge numbers we are beginning to see.

That little girl born this month will be expected (on the basis of present policy and practices) to earn in about 40 years enough to support herself, raise some children, provide them with increasingly expensive higher education (hoping she's got her own college loans paid off by then) and save enough to live on for twenty to thirty years after she stops working. What?! Since about 50% of people who reach age 85 have dementia, that 40 years of earning may well have had to contribute to the care of elderly parents who can't care for themselves (and who certainly did not save enough to cover the increasingly expensive medical expenses) and then face the inability to care for herself and/or her spouse.

Oh my goodness! This will be a huge challenge to our society. While I don't doubt that we will meet the challenge in the long run, I think the road to get there will be very bumpy, as many of us can testify right now.

God help us all!

As far as society is concerned, looking after the aged and not looking after spouses and children does not work.. Yesm the aged need to be cared for. I, at 74, am one of them. But in no way would I want my daughter, for example, to neglect her husband or children to look after me. Nor would she do that as I have not brought her up to behave in that fashion. Society is based on the family structure. That those who are able help those who are not able is good and necessary, but that should never mean abandoning your spouse and children, in my opinion. Often people do not like change and the changes that come with aging are usually not welcome. However, they are a reality that have to be faced.by those of us that survive into our senior years. In my view many households are not equipped to deal with a sick elderly relative. Dementia is a difficult disease to manage, even for trained people. For those who are able to take in and look after an elderly relative in their own home -you have my greatest admiration and respect. For those who find it is stressing your marriage, your children or yourself too much, find another alternative. They do exist and you may be surprised how well it works. Where will society be if the resources go into dealing with seniors and children are not given what they need? Think about it.

This is my first time EVER commenting in such a way. Based on my current living situation, I was drawn to all the comments in this section. My MIL came to visit us for a weekend...which lead to a month...now, it's over a year later. My MIL is 84 years old, in excellent condition (including financially). I'm for honoring and caring for her, but in our home is definitely not the answer. I so wish I could, but it is truly been a difficult year on our family. I can understand Kinnella's husband's position (Note: I don't know all the details of their situation.) I would love to have the ideal situation mentioned above where everything works out, but that is not our story. And, I'm ready to leave - not divorce, but I have to protect my children and my own sanity. I have truly been blessed and encouraged by the comments above. I pray all works out well for Kinnella.

babyface234 I am amazed at the "throw away husband" view or marriage and that married people in their 40's, 50's and 60's think life is still all about mom and/or dad. I guess the marriage vows about forsaking all others and the whole idea of leave mom as well as dad and cleave to each other is hogwash? Sorry, I do not buy into such a throw away view nor do I believe that at some point we forsake our spouse and cleave to our parents until death do we part. Unless of course, we never left home to begin with. I heard the same sentiment expressed about children when it comes to taking care of mom because you can have more of them too on this site. Sick, Sick, Sick!

I know this is a hard decision to make, but I think a mother comes first because just the way people think that a parent should think of their children first then their husband. I think it's the same way with the parents. Your parents you only have them once and a husband you can have as many as you want. Just the way your mom took care of you when you were small now it's time for you to take care of her....Good luck!

I apologize, I just read the current events going on with your mother. I am very sorry to hear about her condition, and am so glad your husband really pitched in to help you with her at this difficult time. He must love you bunches!! Your right the industry does stink. Your a great,loving,daughter for all you do for your mom.I know she really appreciates what you do for her. Still not easy to go through.KB:)

I'm not sure what state your marriage is in,but I know if I were you I would most definately choose my husband. No dought in my mind. I relize you must love your mom, but her influence in your marriage is causing a major negative impact. Your marrige should always come first, and then decide as a couple how to deal with other members of your family. Hope this helped! And if your mom really cares about you,and your commitment to your husband then I'm sure she will understand why it won't work for her to stay with you guys!! Best wishes!!KB

Thank you for checking in. I have been so busy. Mom is in a rehab center right now. Me and hubby has put everything in the past and has moved on. He has been a great help with Mom. We are no longer treating her cancer at this point because she had received some radiation but it is a stage 4 and she is very fraile. Her wishes at this point are to be kept as pain free as possible so that is what we are doing. When the rehab part is done the next stop will be home with hospice. With working and trying to maintain Mom because I don't care for these rehab's. I think the staff don't care for their patients the way I would want them to be cared for but everyone tells me that it is the way of the industry. I think is stinks. I go everyday and do as much as I can for her. I pray that God takes her soon to be with my Father and Brother so she can be happy again and no worries. I always feel your warmth. Thanks...
i just found her messages ....

kinnella has not answered any of this , it was first posted july 19 th 2010 . so leaves me wondering who did she chose , hubby or mother ?

There is so many of us out there in this situation. My husband and I have 4 of our parents ranging from 84 to 90. Last Jan my parents went into assisted living my father was straggling caring for himself and mom even though my sister and I helped. They have ajusted very well and they look better getting their meds. and 3 meals. The activities are great, and they fixed my dad a garden spot so he can still be activity. Now I have more quality time for me and husband and my parents. My husband parents need to be in assisted living for their safety, but refuse, they put all that responsiblity on my husband. He has a brother that does not help. At this point I have be supportive in what my husband feels he need to do. I know how hard it would be to have them live with you. I was very angry for awhile but Iam just trying to be understanding and come up with ways to get a break for my husband and I. Assisted livings can be good and they have independence and their own space. My prays go to you there is no set answers.

Kinella,
Of course I meant good Luck!
Sorry for the typo.

Lynnes

Hi Kinnella,
I too am sorry to hear that you are going through such a stressful situation.
Hope my "adivce'' can be of some assistance.
The first thing you need to do is to try and discuss the feelings of conflict that you are experiencing with your Husband. Let him know that he and your children (if there are any) do come first, but that you also feel a sense of obligation and of course love for your Mother. She of course did raise you and help to create the kind and caring person you became as an adult. This is the woman that your Husband fell in love with in the first place.
Second, you also need to have a frank discussion with your Mom. Tell her that the current living arrangement is taking a toll on your marriage and that you wish to find an alternative that will work for everyone. As a Mother, it is likely that she will not want to contribute to the demise of her child's marriage.
Open communication is key. Let everyone know your feelings and then explore all options available to you and your family. This should include assistance from other siblings, senior housing with outside assistance from a Home Care Agency and even Assisted Living. Also, you may want to seek guidance from a licensed Geriatric Care Manager. Often parents may be more open to advice from a non family member who is a professional.
Good Lick!

Lynnes

This situation is an all too common story on this site far more than the wife who feels abandoned by her husband taking care of his mom. However, the most common perception of abandonment that I have read here is one that my wife and her sister experienced of the children feeling left out by their mom while mom took care of grandmother. I think there is probably more going on here than we know. Was he wholeheartedly in support of your mother coming to live with you two? Is he the kind of person who just lets things build up instead of sharing his feelings earlier or is it hard for him to share his feelings? What has his relationship been like with your mother? If it has been conflicted, the her living there only compounds the conflict. What is his relationship like with his own mother? In the past, has he considered your mother to be rather intrusive into your life as a married couple? In my own life both my mother and mil were intrusive in our lives. Thus, each of us had to work on some boundaries with our mothers before things in our marriage and family could improve. Because of our journey, we agree that neither of our mothers will ever live in the same house with us. Before deductively coming to any conclusions or advice on this matter, I would like to know more about the whole context of his statement.

depends how old the Mother is and how nice the husband is, if husband is horrible then send him away

I am so sorry you are being asked to choose. Not knowing the details of your marriage or your mom's behavior, it is hard to advise. I agree with others that honoring your marriage needs to be number 1. Could you talk to your husband and get him to work with you to problem-solve about caring for your mother in a different way? Would he be open to being reminded that he promised to love you 'for better or worse' and that this is not just your problem alone, but your problem together? I am concerned that if you change your mother's care as a result of an ultimatum, you may resent your husband in the future, depending on the outcome. You are all in my thoughts.

I can't imagine someone being so selfish that they would make you choose between him and the woman who gave you life, who changed her own life in order to raise you with love. Unless, of course, she didn't. Perhaps the quality of the time you do spend with your spouse needs to be bettered rather than merely increased. On the other hand, sometimes people simply resist change and if more firmly encouraged (the way you 'encouraged' your children to go back to kindergarten after the first day) they adapt and begin to find enjoyment at say a day care facility.

Start with just a couple hours per visit then increase to the full time. This will help you get things done and leave you feeling more in control of life and better able to share quality time with your spouse and he won't feel neglected.

As an aside; how many spouses go out and do stuff on their own or with friends and then claim the caregiver isn't giiving them enough time?

kerricranston, I am terribly sorry that you are in this difficult situation. You sound like a very caring person, and this must be driving you crazy.

I think that it is your responsibility, along with your siblings, to see to it that your father is taken care of. That does NOT mean, to my way of thinking, that it is your responsibility to move in with him. And I also don't think it is accurate to say he has taken care of you your whole life. I think at some point you got married, and began a relationship where someone else took care of you, as you took care of that someone else.

A perfectly healthy widower can learn to do things he's never done before, and he can hire things done, and his family can come in and help out, all without anybody moving in with him. If you treat him like an invalid he'll either become more and more like an invalid or he will begin to resent it.

Help him retain his independence. Retain your independence. It is a win-win. Take him to the grocery store. Show him the freezer section with a wide array of frozen meals -- many of them quite tasty and healthy. Go home with him and stock his freezer. Explain how to prepare the meal. Perhaps join him for lunch; microwave two meals, add some bread and applesauce, and enjoy! Is there a nearby cafe where he might enjoy having breakfast once in while? Is he eligible for meals-on-wheels? Is there a senior citizens center that serves lunch? That would also provide the company he craves.

Show him how to do his laundry. Keep it simple. One of my sons sorts his laundry into twenty piles and has a different detergent and water temp for each. The other stuffs as much as he can of anything into the washer and washes every load the same way. Both men lead successful, fulfilling lives. :) For you father, keep it simple! If he just cannot get the hang of it after several attempts, maybe you offer to do his laundry. (If your siblings are local, these kinds of things can be shared.)

Hire a weekly or every-other-week cleaning service. Or provide this service yourself. So the bed doesn't get made every day -- so what? I've never heard of that being fatal.

I think that you are just so tired and overwhelmed right now, and missing your Mom, that you are missing some options that would be more obvious if you were objectively looking at a friend's situation.

You shouldn't be taking on this responsibility alone. Make a list of all the things Dad needs help with. Divide it up among the siblings. If the other sibs aren't local, they can still do their share. They can pay for a cleaning service, for example.

My 91 yo mother has been a widow 14 years. She still lives independently. She needs more and more help, and we kids make sure she gets it. A nurse comes weekly to set up her meds. A homemaker aide comes a few hours a week to clean and do laundry. Sisters shop for her groceries. One brother stops nearly daily to get her mail if she hasn't felt up to getting it herself, take out her trash, do up any dishes. (She is frail with arthristis.) Meals on wheels delivers 5 lunches a week. There are certain brands of microwave meals she likes. She hasn't used the stove in a few years. I make her appointments and take her to the doctors. We have NOT abandoned her. We make sure she is well taken care of. She enjoys her independence. None of us have moved in with her, nor do we plan to.

You do not need to just let go of the marriage. At least not if it has been a good one and it is worth saving. Get some counseling. Get some rest. If necessary, get some help to see how your father's needs can be met, as well as your own (don't forget that!) and your husband's.

This picture isn't as bleak as you are seeing it right now, on the anniversary of your mother's passing. There are more options than you're considering.

Good luck!

I'm sorry to hear of your mother's death and that grief is very fresh still. What are your dad's health problems that lead you to be more connected to him than to your husband who has walked out of the door? From a husband's perspective, which I've been through, he might have felt like emotionally speaking that he was not as married to you as you are connected with your dad. If your dad is rather healthy and able to get out why are you taking your mother's place? Even so, you can't be his surrogate wife. I'm glad that your dad was always their for you, but when you got married that was a step away from mom and dad to grow more intimate with your husband. I tend to agree with your husband that you don't have to be the one personally doing all of the caring for your dad. I'm sure this sounds a bit rough, but understand it is coming from the perspective of a husband who has been there and very glad to have my wife back which my children are glad to have their mom back. Have you ever read the book, Boundaries In Marriage? If not, I suggest you do before just giving up on your marriage. I also encourage you to take care of yourself. Caretaking does not mean throwing ourselves and other's under the bus, but to find a way to avoid that which also meets the caretaking needs of the elderly parent. I wish you well.

If it were up to me, but did you ask?, I would let your husband do what he would like to do, move out, travel, seek adventure, etc., but do not file for a legal divorce......yet. You may wish to take care of your father now and just see what happens. You're too tired to wrangle with this. Just let him move out.