Getting rid of the dog. Any advice?

No matter how you do it, she will mourn the dog like a lost child.

I know that. And sometimes the response on here seem to contradict - on the one hand there is all this concern about the Alz's mindset, a recognition it is an irrational mindset, and on the other hand people often say they'll forget it anyway sooner or later... So, not sure which route to take.

If the Dr. says that it's time to get rid of the dog then it's time to get rid of the dog. I read something on here once where a poster's elderly mother kept feeding the dog over and over, not remembering that she had already fed it. If the dog's owner, in this case your MIL, isn't able to adequately care for the dog then the dog needs to go. No, it's not fair but having Alzheimer's isn't fair either. I had to give up my dog (a lovely golden retriever who worshipped the ground I walked on) when I moved into a smaller place. It was horrible but we do what we have to do. I would try to find the dog a good home first and put the poor creature down as a last resort.

The MD may be suggesting that she needs a nursing home, not that she needs to put down the dog. I think I would ask him to clarify the statement.

My MIL lives with us. Upon her moving in, I set the rule that the dog cannot be in the house (she use to sleep with it). 1) because I don't do dogs or cats in the house--sorry, not pet people and know nothing about dog care, and find it unsanitary with all the hair and but rubbing and yuck 2) because there are others in the home with pet allergies 3) we want her to bond more with her family than the dog. It was tough at first, but she did adjust. As for caring for the dog, actually the last trip to the vet came with the news that she's neglected the dog to the point of abuse. His teeth were rotting out of his mouth and she spent $1000 to get most of them pulled. He is an old miniature doxie that also has seizures etc and vomits quite often... so the thought of trying to find another owner for an old ill dog does not look promising. We should have put the dog down at that surgical visit for his teeth, but hubbie couldn't hack it at the time and it made him feel guilty. No doubt the doctor's comment to my MIL was to prep her for a nursing home at some point just as quitting smoking because that is not allowed in nursing homes. But... do it now quickly or wait until she's less all there... that's the dilemma.

I understand that caring for a dog takes it toll on the elderly and sometimes for all concerned a dog needs to be in placed elsewhere. But when you verbalize the words "gid rid of the dog" it really irks me. Domesticated animals are just as precious as human beings. It is just as bad as getting rid of the elderly to a nursing home because they are no longer viable

Debralee: taking into consideration that I know the dog's age and health, saying 'git rid of the dog' was a far gentler phrase than a question entitled 'killing the dog--when is it time?'. We can say 'putting the dog down' which is just another way of saying the same thing--splitting hairs. I was more concerned for the timing from those who have been in this situation than measuring my words in case of possible critic backlash. As for 'domesticated animals are just as precious': then going from your view point, there should be no excuse for their neglect to the point of abuse as the vet told us and the dog should have been removed from her a long time ago whether it upsets her or not for the sake of the dog. But we did not because we were trying to avoid her being sorrowful for as long as possible. But now her doctor is advising this. Most people put those in their care in a nursing home because they no longer have the means nor the skills nor the energy required to do it anymore... which is how it was when I cared from my MIL's mother... mind you... she didn't care for her own mother. Hubbie and I did until I could stay up 24/7 on end... we had her evaluated and the state took over. Being 'viable' was never the issue... though I will admit, on the days when this second-time caregiver is burnt out and going through her own emo crash... getting rid of the elderly to a nursing home sounds pretty good... A nursing home isn't equal to euthanasia for the old because they are not found viable.

bs. animals are not people yet animal lovers consistantly compromise " peoples " QOL in favor of animals. idda popped the nasty thing in the head BEFORE allowing a thousand bucks to be wasted on him.

RUburned out, oh I think you are and MIL should be in a nursing home. I feel bad for the dog too, but if poochie's a senior dog and mom has forgotten to take care of him, it would be kinder to put him down. Just tell her bow wow is at the vet, she may not ask after that. If she does just say he's at the vet and not doing well. After a few days tell her he's gone to doggie heaven. Just ease her into it slowly. Expect some tears. Save the collar for her and a picture of the dog. Will it kill her? Probably not, but if she dies right after the dog goes, she was only hanging on for his sake, and didn't want him left behind.

Captain, I find it fascinating that you would pop the dog in the head, but think nothing of spending a thousand bucks to save a seventy year old truck.

I understand the sentiment Captain... I do see the issue you bring up... where people have taken a back seat to animals. I understand. We cared from MIL's mom taking out a 18K home improvement loan and paid for all out of our pocket with her and did what we could until I couldn't do it anymore... now with MIL we pay all and have never gotten 1000K from her to help in her own care. But the dog??? Well now... So, I understand and I agree, animals are not people and it is difficult to gear one's life around one whose world is void of rationality. So we are left with the actual decision making and the resulting guilt trips over it..

Now I asked my question because while the doc advises this... As the old joke goes: God doesn't think he's a doctor. I don't think doctors are God. But I do trust the experiences of those who have been in this situation to give me their take on things.

It sounds like the dog doesn't have that great a life anyway. I LOVE my cats, but I do have them put to sleep - killed - when they are in pain that won't ever get better.

It's true that it would sometimes be kind to put a human to sleep. I faced that in a mild form when my father wanted to call Dr. Kevorkian. I do see that we can't "just" put people to sleep the way we can pets. (OMG, that poor brain-dead woman in Texas and her family!!!) Animals deserve consideration, love and care, but people come first.

Still, make a few phone calls about a shelter for Fido. Maybe someone would love to take him in. As we know, people aren't rational about animals.

I think it is horrible to kill the dog. There are places that will re-home it. What did the dog do to anyone?? - the dog is sick because he/she was neglected (according to what you wrote). Had the dog been properly taken care of he/she would be in good health.

Had the dog been properly taken care of he/she would be in good health.
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Good health? eh... not so sure. He's always had seizures and been on meds for it...so the health being good??? I guess that is a personal view of what good is. The cause is humans trying to breed dogs smaller and smaller as I understand it... and getting the results of the bad side of that genetic desire.

We 're-homed' MIL's mother's cat, but that was a different situation, though it only takes seconds to call a shelter... When I think of all the dogs in shelters though and this dog competing???? eh...

The thought of having to put the dog down is not a pleasurable thing. If it were, we would have done it when the legit opportunity presented itself with the teeth extraction deal... but we didn't.

I must say though... I never thought a question of timing and pets would reveal so much about peoples fears of death. Wow! Tons of avoidance and denial.

RU there`s something very wrong here. Remember, anyone can look at your prior posts and see if you`re on the up and up, which it appears you may not be.. The dog can`t be in the house for an old lady that sleeps with it - likely the only friend she has in the world ... may God forgive you because I certainly won`t. Remember Kharma is a b*tch.

That said, animals give people more comfort than you will ever know. Ever wonder why nursing homes are regularly visited by animals ... of course not, you seem to hate your MIL and everyone else around you along with the world in general. Along with your MIL and the poor dog I feel so sorry for your husband but I guess he doesn`t have the balls to deal with his own mother. I wonder how fast hubby will run away from you when you put his mother in a nursing home.

If your MIL has to part with the dog there are rescues that will take him and let him live out his life hospice style.

When my mother went into a NH I inherited her little dog and I take Sue to visit from time to time. Nearing the end of her life it gives her so much joy and comfort. In between Sue`s visits she has stuffed animals she sleeps with that give her some comfort.

You come across as so very cruel and hard hearted and perhaps I`m the only one that has the guts to say so ... so bite me.

But the truck might have another seventy years in it if Captain treats it right… I speak as one who is - or rather was, I've already lost - competing with a 1935 Talbot for a man's affection and commitment. Should've known better. At least he hasn't popped me in the head and sold my kidneys in exchange for a rebuilt crank case. Yet.

RUk, if the dog is suffering, do the deed. PS's gradual approach sounds good to me, except I'd keep the collar and photo to one side unless/until they were asked for - don't prompt distressing memories if you can help it. I'm not being macabre, but a cuddly toy animal makes a good love object. I may roll my eyes about my mother's sodding stuffed elephant but if it makes her happy..?

Um. I also agree it does sound a bit like things possibly coming to a head? It sounds as if you're finding it very hard to like your MIL (nobody, surely, would blame you). Nothing to add, I just hate the thought of both you and your MIL being made miserable if it's all become too much. Tough times, I'm sorry.

Can folks please stay on topic.
Thanks.

The questions is: Doctor's words vs. the timing (because obviously it's gotta happen at some point)... Do it now and be there for this part of her transition in life or wait until she can only be continually upset about it?

Please consider a third option. There are pet rescue groups devoted to certain breeds of dog and this tiny doxie might qualify for one. Then he could go to one of their foster homes and maybe have a decent quality of life for a little while and your MIL would likely let him go with less fight - you could tell her that with them he could be indoors, have someone doing his meds, etc. To me that's the answer, put in the time now to find a "no kill" option with a rescue group for him and tell your MIL rehoming him is best for reasons that are true. Check out drna(dot)org

I am a major animal person, but I know sometimes animals can suffer so much that it is time to let them go. I don't believe in putting animals down for human convenience, but only if the animal's life has become too painful. If the doxie is suffering, then it is time to let him go. If it is a matter of convenience, then the choice is on you. I am not really seeing this as a good subject for a caregiver support group since it makes people feel bad for the dog and about each other.

"Finding reasons not to like your MIL"... from what? Her doctor telling her to her face that she needs to get use to living without the dog and my asking how others in the same situation dealt with it?

"...not a good subject for caregiver support.." But it is a reality of life and a decision made in caregiving.

Not really sorry if some are exaggeratedly offended. Frankly, some countries have pets as a food source-- I'm not as closed minded as some.

Let's not attack one another.

Animals are NOT people. RUKiddinME is taking care of a dog she did not choose. The dog has epilepsy and vomits all the time. The dog is pretty near the end. Taking care of MIL is not easy and won't get easier. RU is trying to get advice on what's best for MIL.

I love cats, but I would never adopt a cat in that condition. I think someone who would is a little bit nuts. In a nice way, but still nuts.

Will it kill her? Probably not, but if she dies right after the dog goes, she was only hanging on for his sake, and didn't want him left behind....

Since the question went on an unwarranted sidebar...

Rethinking the Value of Pets
By SUSAN SELIGER

Will your elder die if they don't have their pet comes to mind. But there is a lot of opinion and no science.

Think an elderly family member is better off with a pet? You may want to think again.

Sure, there have been hundreds of articles claiming dogs and cats can lower blood pressure, zap stress and combat depression and loneliness. But some experts say the evidence that pet companionship is healthy is not all that definitive. And for the elderly, having a dog and cat can be both stressful and dangerous.

Falls involving pets and their paraphernalia are an underappreciated health hazard. “Over 86,000 people per year have to go to the emergency room because of falls involving their dogs and cats, and these fractures can be devastating for the elderly,” said Judy Stevens, an epidemiologist with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and lead author of a report on this peril.

“If we were giving a drug that had such a serious side effect, we’d consider taking that drug off the market,” said Harold Herzog, professor of psychology at Western Carolina University.

In a 2011 report in the journal Current Directions in Psychological Science, Dr. Herzog took aim at a central tenet of pet ownership: the widely touted evidence that pets are good for people.


Take a truth that we animal-lovers hold to be self-evident — that pets cheer us up. A December 2011 study in The Journal of Personality and Social Psychology found that pet owners had greater self-esteem, were less lonely and tended to be less fearful than people without pets. And another study reported that pets eased depression and agitation and improved nutritional well-being among nursing home patients with dementia and Alzheimer’s.

Dr. Herzog, who is also author of “Some We Love, Some We Hate, Some We Eat: Why It’s So Hard to Think Straight About Animals,” is having none of it. Contradictory findings haven’t gotten anywhere near as much publicity, he said. A 2011 study of elderly people in Pennsylvania found that the more attached they were to their pets, the more depressed they were, he pointed out.

Researchers have reported more than once that if you have a strong social network, having pets won’t make you any happier.

Indeed, a new study of 8,709 adolescents in Sweden, published this month, found that those with pets reported more psychological problems than those without.

A survey of 3,000 Americans by the Pew Center found no difference between pet owners and people without pets in the proportion who rated themselves “very happy.” And Dr. Herzog cited a 2007 longitudinal study in England showing that even though people who got pets said they felt happier and less lonely, their responses on more objective psychological tests didn’t show them to be.

As for pets easing stress and lowering blood pressure, a widely cited benefit, Dr. Herzog acknowledged one “good, clinically controlled study” to back the conclusion. (There was another, arguably: Medicare patients with pets reported feeling less stress than people without pets and visited doctors’ offices less often.)

Some of those results have been tough to replicate. Two similar studies (published in Anthrozoos in 1997 and in Epidemiology in 2007) found that the presence of pets did not lower blood pressure.

Furthermore, among the elderly, pets can actually add to the stress, rather than ease it, if the aging owners find it difficult to keep up with the care.
“Getting outside a few times a day to walk the pet is an incredible burden — that’s why most of our clients are elderly,” said Rachel Herman, founder of Pets are Wonderful Support, or PAWS, a New York City nonprofit group that helps low-income residents care for their pets. “And often they can’t afford the vet.”

And then there’s the heartbreak that the death of a beloved pet can bring.

“Grief over an animal is very real,” said Alan Beck, professor of animal ecology at the Purdue University School of Veterinary Medicine, who has conducted research on the positive effects of pets on Alzheimer’s patients. But Dr. Beck thinks the benefits of ownership probably outweigh the drawbacks for the elderly.

Both sides agree that pets can help increase the amount of exercise their owners get. A Canadian study found that dog owners walked nearly twice as much per week, 300 minutes, compared with their dog-free counterparts, clocking in at only 168 minutes (though a California study by the National Cancer Institute credited dog owners with walking only 18.9 minutes more each week than people without dogs).

But the evidence is mixed regarding pets and heart disease. One of the first peer-reviewed studies into the healing power of pets, in 1980, found that 28 percent of pet owners survived the risky first year after a heart attack, while only 6 percent of patients without pets did. And even cats, which rarely submit to walks, somehow lowered their owners’ chances of dying of heart attack, stroke and other cardiovascular diseases, compared with people who didn’t own a cat, according to a new study by the University of Minnesota Stroke Research Center.

But just to show you how slippery pet research can be, this same Minnesota research did not find any heart-attack protection among owners of dogs (or any other pets).

And Dr. Herzog said, after excusing himself for a minute to let his cat in during our phone call, “there’s another study in which cat owners had four times the hospital readmission rate of non-cat owners after a heart attack.”

So is pet ownership healthy or harmful for the elderly? There is little debate about the safety and success of pet programs that bring animals into nursing homes or hospitals for patients to play with and pet.

But individual pet ownership may be a different proposition, and it depends a great deal on the strengths and weaknesses of the owner. “I’m not a Grinch,” said Dr. Herzog, “but the science is not as clear as most people think.”

Dr. Beck countered: “Herzog’s wrong, even if he is a friend. He’d probably like to find that apple pie causes cancer.”

He added, “When the benefits are so much larger than the risk, you take the risk.”

Are they? Do you?

Interesting article. I support research and quote it all the time. I know for a fact that my husband's adorable little kitty cat raises his oxytocin level and makes him easier to deal with. Our family is in the group that does better with cats around. So there.

Is the dog now living outside after being used to being an indoor pet? I assume since you are not a pet person, this elderly dog has no outside accommodations. What part of the country are you, because most of the U.S. is going to be abnormally cold tonight?

Unless you're in Hawaii, you need to get in touch with the better part of you. Intentional suffering on a another living creature is not a good thing.

I must have missed something. What was that long research message about? If the dog is suffering, put it down. If it isn't, take it to the humane society or something. It is really that simple. If you want to start a feel-bad argument here, I hope you end up talking to yourself. I don't doubt the research is true, but really who cares?

I'm in the middle of the road on this. I enjoy my pet(s) (past and present) and think that having one that interacts with my client is a great source of comfort. When comfort turns to compromise, it's time to let the animal go. Whether you re-home it, or give it a merciful death is your choice, in my opinion.

As for the question of when, run a test .. don't let the dog be around her for a while, give whatever excuse seems to work. See what her reaction is. Measure that against how quickly her dementia is increasing, along with her memory. And remember the 'kind lie' .. do whatever helps decrease her anxiety.

Im a full time nurse on a critcal care unit and a full time caregiver to my 91 year old father in our home. Husband and kids help been doing it for a year now. Its not easy but we just do it because my dad is and was the best and he deserved it. He is wheelchair bound and has lots of neuro and physical deficits from stroke. When we brought him we also decided tobring his Schnauzer Max who lays by his side or lap all day with my Shepherd. They bring alot of joy and happiness to him. As a nurse i have seen this many of times and its actually a form of therapy as well. We are Big Pet and People and Life lovers! Realize that they are gifts and not something to be "Popped in the head" GOOD GOD! because their lives are coming to an end! That being said i understand everyone does not have the same feelings Thats ok as long as it doesn't involve cruelty then you may have other issues. I support the person having to consider other options because they are not people and mom wasn't able to care for dog properly. For us it has worked out and Dad feels more happy in his room with his things caring for his little sidekick! As the primary caregiver you have to do what is right for yourself as well as your loved one. Not always easy! Im happy we kept the little guy! No probs at all. Dad wheels to the door and lets both ours and his out when needed and he feeds MAX in his room. Gives him a sense of responsibility and need. What ever you do....do it for love and for God Sakes respect for all life!!!

RuK, I've got a "fume" that's been growing over the last hours: what the blazes did your mother's doctor think he was doing to help with that idiotic hint-hint remark? "You'd better get used to living without the dog…" meaning what, exactly? Cretinous herbert. Meaning she couldn't cope with ownership responsibilities? Thinking of her possibly deteriorating immune system? Had she been telling him about the dog and in his medical opinion the dog didn't have long for this world? Having regard to her living context and thinking that the dog wasn't helping? A vague concern about how distressing she'd find its loss, but not enough to suggest a way forward? Frankly, he could have meant almost anything.

As two penn'orths go, it's about the least helpful I've heard recently. What a wombat.

I think you need guidance from your elder's doctor about what s/he means. And guidance about if it's time for MIL to go into care. In my view, having a parent cared for by professionals is not "sending them off" any more than having one's children educated by professionals is. When is the dog's next vet visit scheduled? No-kill shelter? Dauchshund rescue group?

Is the dog now living outside after being used to being an indoor pet? I assume since you are not a pet person, this elderly dog has no outside accommodations. What part of the country are you, because most of the U.S. is going to be abnormally cold tonight?

He's in the garage, wears his doggie clothes, he has his bed and blankets and toys, food and water and the side door is open so he can go outside--not that I do not have to clean up the dog poo, piss and vomit since Alz MIL is oblivious to that as a daily chore. The state I am in is warm--moving here only 1 1/2 year ago; but for the peace of mind of the apparently fragile, he was in the house with us when we had a finished basement and lived in -40 weather. But there it was a separate part of the house and those in our family with pet allergies weren't exposed to the dog. I think some forget that they don't know us personally, nor any of the history ... and let their mouth run off without their brain attached. So... are people suggesting I should let other family members suffer their health issues with allergies and add their additional doctor's appts for them to our schedule?

RuK, I've got a "fume" that's been growing over the last hours: what the blazes did your mother's doctor think he was doing to help with that idiotic hint-hint remark? "You'd better get used to living without the dog…" meaning what, exactly?

I dunno. Hubbie takes her to the appts. and that is what he told me the doctor said to her. And I don't know why the doctor would say that to her. Even I said to hubbie, "He said that TO her?" And he said yes... so... I said... okay...and how did she take that.

The dog is 13 years old. As I said, he has seizures, vomits daily etc... And for those that missed it completely due to emo overload... I already replied to one level headed poster that it only takes a few seconds to call a shelter which clearly hubbie and I will consider, but when I think of all the dogs in shelters?

By the replies from pet enthusiasts, seems they have the same fundamentalist mentality as the religious who refuse to bake a cake for gays.