Can you get in trouble for leaving a bedridden patient alone for an hour or two?

Goodgrief, this is an old post and stop insulting caregivers on this site. NeedHelp has been a valuable poster here and has helped lots of caregivers. Be Kind!

I am getting heat stroke symptoms just reading this thread.
Just made a great smoothie out of Lactaid milk, bananas, strawberries, and ice cream. Forget the healthy stuff like yogurt!

THIS IS A VERY OLD POST!

GoodGrief posted a response to a response that I made when this posting was active. Apparently, she didn’t appreciate what I had to say and made a specific point in telling me so.

I don’t think people look at the dates. Plus, AgingCare seems to keep certain postings alive long after they are active. It’s a mystery because other postings that are active will sometimes disappear.

Can the sitter go onto the other room to make a snack or will the patient fall out of the bed?

can the sitter step out onto the porch, or will she risk the patient getting tangled up in the bed rails? What about a walk around the yard?

how many minutes away from the bedridden patient are safe? Who decides?

what about an inpatient hospice facility? Do they have someone in the room 24/7?

Goodness, how in the world did THIS old one resurface? If 54 answers don't do it nothing will.

Are people seriously vilifying you for leaving your mother for such a brief period, especially with cameras?!
Ive been assisting with my father’s care for a little over 10 years and just recently we had to introduce hospice into our home.
I have to leave my father for brief periods of time, 2 hrs max periodically or I will go absolutely stir crazy.
There is a gigantic difference between a baby and an a bedridden adult.
Literally why you have cameras in place and with technology the way it is, you can buy fall alarms and what not straight off Amazon that can call 911.
Even in a case of emergency, you still have to call 911 for assistance.
No one should ever make you feel bad about having to take time for yourself too. Your mental health deserves a break, never forget that.

Not certain why this one has reared it's head again, but it is an OLD October post that went south quickly, and stayed there. Until now. Hopefully it will disappear again as fast.

I don't know how much more of this hysterical nonsense I can take. Worried makes the best point yet: "...there are people who live alone while on hospice, with no family to provide care and no money to pay for care..."

Hospice - you have cameras. Add audio if you don't already have it. Peace to you and your mother.

It may not be a civil "law," but it is a Hospice requirement that someone be in the house with a non-ambulatory Hospice patient. It's not just that the patient could fall, but that the house could catch on fire or some other emergency and the bedridden patient left alone would not be able to get out.

The nurse was right. Yes, she can really do.

For me, Instead of trying to think of all kinds of reasons it would be fine for me to leave a bedridden patient alone, I would be thinking of all the reasons I shouldn't leave them alone.

Unexpected things happened.

I wouldn't want to live with regrets as to why I left them alone. Sure wouldn't want to face anyone with the question "Where was the responsible caregiver?"

OP has cameras in her mother's home to monitor the situation. Some cameras have this nifty invention called A-U-D-I-O and so she would be able to H-E-A-R a smoke detector going off and then pick up her phone and do this neat thing with her finger that some still refer to as dialing 9-1-1. Then, the big red fire engines come a honking and big strong men rescue those who cannot get out themselves.

Most caregivers cannot afford to hire help! What the heck are they supposed to do???

I'm going to play devil's advocate here so bear with me.

If it is not OK to leave a person alone for an hour to go to the store, is it OK to do it to step outside into the yard for an hour for some fresh air and gardening therapy?

If it is not OK to do that, is it ok to leave the person alone while you go into another room in the same house to cook or shower or dress, which might take an hour or longer? If this is OK, why is it ok? For those mentioning fire, what if the caregiver is too weak to get the invalid out of the house?

If it is not OK to step out of the room for an hour, how long IS it ok to be away from the bedridden patient? If a sitter is in the room with the bedridden patient and falls alseep from exhaustion, is this OK? Sometimes a caregiver gets so freaking tired they could sleep through a 5-alarm fire.

There are many, many people across this country (some here on this website), who are SOLE caregivers for bedridden loved ones with no help whatsoever from family and no money to hire help. What the heck are they supposed to do?

I had a very distant relative quite a few years ago (before internet) and she was a nurse with health problems of her own. She was divorced and in debt. She worked nights and then came home to look after her extremely demanding mother who was wheelchair bound. I don't know how she did this and I don't know when she ever slept as her mother complained to anyone who would listen that "Cathy won't sit and visit with me, take me to do XYZ, etc." Cathy DIED less than a year after her mom as the stress of this took a toll on her for sure. I don't know why the mother wasn't in a SNF.

I’m not an attorney so I don’t legally know. My thought is if your Mother is bed bound she would not have the ability to evacuate in the event of a fire (that may be there issue the nurse has).

Does she have a life alert that she can wear and is she cognitive enough to use it?

How did the hospice nurse get in during your absence?

Be careful, in the legal system what is legal is oftentimes light years away from what is moral. You may have to limit your leaving to days you have a sitter.

God bless you for the care you provide❤️

I can't believe any state law would ever 'prosecute' such an incidence. HUGE difference between neglect and turning one's back for a moment or an hour. For 18 months, 24 hrs. daily, based upon a single, primary caregiver's single comment (almost perfunctory), that mom should never be left alone. I only left the house when I knew mom was 'down' until 8:00 a.m., or for a good hour for her mid-morning nap. We worked together (I think) that she'd stay stationary if I ever needed to leave the house for an hour; but I didn't have a nannycam on her, so who knows! I came to accept that, it's inevitable she'd go down before anyone could spring fast enough, or have enough strength, to keep her from going down and breaking. From then on, my management strategy was 'risk minimization'. Eventually, the fam set up relief care (4 hrs., 5 days a week), and I also made that clear to the 4-hr. occasional caretaker (after I'd done it full time for 3 years) that "it's gonna happen" so don't freak if it happens if they're 'on duty'. Y'know, that damned primary caretaker doc had no idea the weight of that almost casual comment to me that 'she should not be left alone', which ended up dictating my life for the next few unhappy years. In my experience, I learned what was the most realistic and practical way, being well aware that 'it' may happen in the few moments while I even went to the bathroom. Caretaking is absolutely unique for every person and situation. As long as I'm using my wise mind and knowing what I'm comfortable living with that 'if', I'm comfortable and won't feel guilty. Good luck, Hospicecare123, on your journey.

I think it depends a lot on the circumstances, particularly how your mother behaves. I had to go to get food, care stuff etc when my mother was bedbound in her last week of life with cancer. My mother was very sensible (not that of course she was as sensible as me!) and was not trying to get out of bed on her own, so no falls. If she choked on her own saliva (and no indications of that), she could have died while I went to the toilet. In my whole life, I have had one mechanical fire (a cheap solar light in the garden malfunctioned, thank heavens in winter). Two very major wildfires, but that isn’t relevant for OP. No gas in the apartment, no wood fires. Fire by lightning strike? This is getting silly! Of course, in the very last stages I was with her all the time, but that isn’t where OP is at present.

My mother was a teacher, I grew up with teachers. Mum knew several ex-nurses, ex-DONs. My experience is that a fair proportion of them are bossy britches who like telling other people what to do. Exactly what is the threat? Legal action? Rubbish, it would never get past the decision to prosecute. Remove mother from your house against your will and hers? Rubbish again. Find mother a facility that would take her against her will? It would need APS staff with nothing to fill in time except crosswords! Your commonsense sounds pretty good to me, just stick to it! If 'nurse' tries it again, ask for it in writing with references to the regulations.

Caregiving is stressful. No one disagrees on that. Those who haven’t done any caregiving are clueless.

I had absolutely no idea how difficult caregiving truly was until I jumped in with both feet. Before that I was only speculating on what others went through.

I could say the same for being a patient. That isn’t easy either. Compassion is needed for the patient and the caregiver.

The medical community works extremely hard. They deserve to be shown respect and appreciation. Step into a nurses shoes for a day to gain perspective on what their day is like.

I have always wanted the nurse to be my best friend because nurses are extremely knowledgeable in healthcare.

I have found that nurses are honest and will share their insight with people who are willing to listen.

No one is perfect at all times. I think everyone realizes that. If everyone would learn to look at the entire overall picture instead of only a small segment then we could have a better and clearer understanding of each other.

Don’t hang on every single word. Look at the general meaning of the message that someone is saying to you. This nurse was telling you exactly what you needed to hear, regardless of if her tone was compassionate or not.

Take a step back and place yourself in someone else’s shoes too, not just your own shoes. I bet you may find there are times that you overreact. I know that I have overreacted when I was stressing out. It’s normal to become overwhelmed.

I applaud you for coming to the forum to unload your frustrations and seek advice. One day this will be behind you and you will have a new perspective on it.

You will figure this out like you have done so in other areas of your life. So sorry that you you are carrying this heavy load. Take care.

Not trying to sound rude but a violation of what leaving your mom alone for a hour or two she's your mom I leave my mom by herself sometimes and she's paralyzed from the right side down she had a brain aneurysm as long as your mom's safe and has everything she ñeed before you have to leave her it shouldn't be no violation against you

I would just make it easier on yourself and hire someone to watch her on Sunday for 4 hours. You state "you pay", I'm assuming you mean you are using mom's assets as POA as you shouldn't be draining your savings in this situation unless you can comfortably afford it. As others have said, the nurse has a duty to report neglect to APS, so just make it easier and pay someone to watch mom on Sunday.

My bigger issue with this scenario is that the way the hospice nurse presented it to the OP.

Lots of us here have had to make the hospice journey with someone we love. H*ll, some of us, like me, are making it as this thread is going on. I can't say for sure what anyone else felt during the journey, but I'm already grieving. My emotions are ragged, and I've been going on about 4 hours of sleep every 24 hours or so. Not a good place to be, not a pace anyone can keep up for any time frame and still maintain their physical and mental health. Which band said "the waiting is the hardest part"? Now I know for sure what they mean. And there's a certain amount of guilt involved too, even though logically you know better. Always the niggling doubt that you gave up too soon, that you haven't exhausted all the options. That you're not giving this person whom you love every chance there is to live longer.

But anyway, hospice doesn't only exist to support the patient, but also the patient's family, If the OP had a nurse coming for "routine" care, and was told what she was told, I think I might feel differently. And I realize that this nurse might be feeling that it is her legal obligation to say something. That said, if one of my mom's hospice nurses said that to me in the state I'm in now, I'd probably become furious myself. I really think that words matter, especially in a time such as this, and there should have been a way better way to put it than an ultimatum. As I said, if the OP gets reported and her mom gets removed, that's not in the best interest of anyone, including the mom.

Yes you can. A bed bound person should not be left for an hour or two. I checked with APS in my home state this morning and it is considered putting a vulnerable elderly person at risk. You could be held responsible and a possibility would exist for your mother to be taken into state custody.

Nursing homes are required to check at regular intervals on all patients. If they are not doing this they should be reported to the State Nursing Home Board.

Some people, caregivers whom I admire, would take issue with the hospice nurse and her statement: "it is a violation".

These special people would ask, something like the following:
"A violation of what?".
"What law, rule or guideline?".
"What is the punishment for that?"
As a hospice nurse, are you held to a higher standard, or regulation than a family caregiver?". "Complaint? to whom will she make the complaint?" "Is a family caregiver really answerable to the hospice nurse?" "Was the nurse really a nurse, or a bath aide?" "Is the nurse the caregiver police?".
Etc. Etc. Etc.
Since I am not one of those special people, I am not sure what else they would say to the hospice nurse to mitigate her accusation, threat of making a complaint, which would have hurt my feelings. Maybe the hospice nurse was bordering on bullying in her attitude?

This is part of the question the OP may have wanted answered.
How it made her feel, can they turn her in, did she really do wrong,
am I a bad caregiver, a bad person?

Hospice123,
You would not have asked the question if you were an uncaring person, imo.

I'm going against the grain in this thread. I, too, lived 3-4 minutes away from my mom. When she came home from the nursing home, she was transitioning. I needed to get her breathing medication and it was a holiday. I talked to the hospice people and told them I had to drive to the other side of town to get the medication (approx 20 minutes one way). It was a necessity and I did it. I, too, had cameras on mom and could hear and see her on my phone. I had it on the whole time, and I could glance at it to ensure she was fine. In this situation, it was her quality of life (breathing) and I had no other alternatives. I would have been in a position to call 911 if need be. She was comfortable and happy to know I was watching. She couldn't walk or get out of bed, so I had no concerns about falls. Yes, fire is a possibility, but I don't feel that she was alone or in immediate danger. We had locks on the door with codes, that I could give a responder if they needed to get in. It worked out well. If you can get someone close by to stay with her when you're out, that's the best scenario. But it is not always possible and as an only child, with limited financial abilities, I did the best I could.

You would definitely need to check with a Social Worker.

It may well be because your mom wouldn't be able to get out if the house if there was a fire. Like leaving a baby that can't help itself.
Maybe you can find out what time someone is coming on Sunday and go home during that time.
Maybe you can schedule a family member, friend, church member or Volunteer to sit with your mom 2 - 4 hrs on Sundays.

You should think about hiring a Live In for your Mom as it would be less money than hiring 24 hr Caregivers.
I checked with a couple places and found out I could get a Live In for $500 a week plus room and board. About 1/4 of paying different Caregiver's fir 24 7 Care for my Dad.

I understand the way posters mean the comparison of the elderly to a child and I hope those who are put off by the remarks will be understanding of their view.

Le’s be kind and respectful to one another. This isn’t a debate. It’s a discussion where all views should be heard. We can politely agree to disagree on topics. The OP can determine what is useful for her.

If people want to debate an issue put up an interesting topic in the discussion section of the forum to receive feedback.

We all realize that there are differences between adults and children. Please acknowledge there are similarities too.

Neither young children or seriously ill adults can take care of themselves. They are both helpless. Please look at comments in their proper context.

A person nearby is available to call 911. A person who left the home cannot call for help and would feel awful if something happened.

Accidents do happen. It’s not about how often or rare they are. If something did happen the OP would feel awful.

You can’t leave a bedridden person alone. Anything can happen within a few minutes. Ask yourself if it would be worth it for you to run home for a couple of hours or other errands. Can mom pay a sitter on Sunday for you to take a break?

The nurse isn’t being unreasonable or hateful. She is being realistic and it was nice of her to give you a warning. Remind the nurse that you love your mom and doing all that you can for your mom and that you will choose other times to shop or hire a sitter to go home for a break.

She could have just reported you without a warning. I would have thanked her for the warning and for caring about your mom’s wellbeing and reassured her that it wouldn’t happen again.

Leaving your mom alone may cause your mom anxiety as well. She needs someone to be there for her. There could be an emergency come up and she would be frightened being alone, more importantly she could be in a dangerous situation without any help. She is in need of care or she wouldn’t have been approved for hospice care.

Best wishes to you in managing your mom’s care. It’s so hard. I’m sorry. It’s difficult watching a parent decline.

Is there an end of life hospice facility with this organization? My brother went to a facility ran by hospice near his death. He received wonderful care from nurses.

If they don’t have an end of life facility, you could see if another hospice organization has one and possibly switch over.

Yes, anything could happen when left alone, a fire, etc. What if something were to happen to OP, the caregiver, when she was out? How would anyone know there was someone bedridden at home?

Imagine your mother having an emergency - heart attack, stroke, fire - and not being able to get help. That is why the nurse is trying to warn you to never leave your mother unattended. If she were a baby or young child, you wouldn't leave her unattended. Pretty much the same issue - dependent person with inability to get help when needed.

I would most likely heed the warning. She may be more apt to show up on the day that you provide the care-giving, to check up on you.

Your situation probably would fall under the neglect abuse. See that section under this website:

https://www.nursinghomeabusecenter.com/elder-abuse/types/

From that section, it lists "Protection from danger", which is likely what they would consider. It also states that "Unfortunately, the NCEA lists neglect as the most common type of elder abuse." So, the nurse is likely categorizing you under this.

Your state laws may be different than other states, but do you really want to find out? What is it that is so important at your house that you need to leave her alone? A few minutes, maybe. An hour or 2? Probably not a good idea.

As far as groceries or other necessities, arrange to pick those up when you have hired help and/or have the items delivered. Many stores and online outlets have shipping/delivery options. You have to buy your own supplies, why not buy hers at that time and make sure you bring them at least on the day that you cover.

It is tempting to sneak off if she's sleeping or quietly content, but I wouldn't risk it. Plan ahead. Buy ahead. Bring what you need with you for the day. Better safe than sorry. Bring anything YOU need for the duration of the day as well.

Regardless as to whether the nurse ever returns or "turns you in", IF something happened, how would that impact you? I'd carry a lot of guilt around myself.

For those saying the person is old, dying, bedridden, what's the big deal if they check out early??? WTF??? Okay, so let's go back to the "old" days, where the dying person would be left out in the woods or on the mountain, to pass on. Surrre. Do I want my mother clinging to every scrap of life, once she progresses future? No, but neither am I going to leave her unattended. She's not bedridden yet, but she is now fully dependent on the staff getting her up, cleaned, dressed, etc. I don't even like leaving my 21.5+ yo cat home alone - unfortunately I have no one to "cover" for me when I need to get supplies, deliver supplies for mom and pay the "rent" for her, but it really isn't the same. I just don't go off for long periods of time at this point. I was already "home-bound" due to a financial crunch, and just when that was resolving, along comes this stupid virus.

(I do agree that if there's a fire, we might be very hard pressed to be able to move a dead-weight adult out to save them. Even with cameras, you might not notice the fire starting and it may be too late to get back in or get to your mother's room. In a fire every minute counts. You contact FD, then try to block off the room to keep fire and smoke out until they can rescue you. I do NOT agree with some situations, like leaving a child in a car. Yes, I had kids. Two. I NEVER left either in the car for ANY reason. If baby was sleeping, and I had to leave the car, I took the seat with baby in it with me. Toddlers too. If I can't carry them or wake them, do without. I can also attest to being in a hospital situation - check every 15 minutes someone said? HAHAHAHA. I was not immobile, but I had ZERO supplies. I asked a nurse for assistance in cleaning up after an accident. HOURS later she returned, empty handed! From that point on, I harangued everyone about going home and getting home care. Took almost a month, but someone got sick of me!)

"Recently, the nurse can in while I was at my house and said that leaving my mother alone is a violation and the next time she would put in a complaint."



Believe her. She is not making this up ............