Anyone else tired of being told to "give it up to GOD" or that you are "being prayed for"...earnestly?

I don't know. I am not a nice person I was raised by smart people and my father was a rank jerk, very cynical and sarcastic, that will warp a child.

I am bigoted against religion because I think it makes people not think for them selves, like there is any thing wrong with that.

I am sorry if I hurt you but I meant to, see, bitter mean nasty. I have been angry and snappish for along time. I don't want to be I don't know. I can't see myself as a accepting happy loving person, I care but i keep my distance. People have been very unkind to me in my life, the ones who were not stand out it profound relief, now I bring it on myself most of the time.

I am angry and resentful that some people seem to have good lives, came from loving families where they were cared for and respected not abused and humiliated.

I do understand your idea that not so much that is is all good but that it is "OK" so to speak, That all things in life can I don't know that death isn't terrible and that there will be peace and understanding.

But like the Jewish people after the holocaust I can put God on trial and find a great deal to be resentful for.

I do not find it easy to come to terms with "loving god" and so much cruelty and suffering in the world. and I do not do devils. It would be easier to think there is no god and it is all biology and society and selfish hateful men but I need to believe there is god somewhere and that there will be justice and peace at the end. What an awful feeling that there is nothing and it is all just here and then just dead, dirt, no soul going on..

There are people who have had worse than me and are better people than me. I don't want to be a bad person but I think I just am.

Dear Jsomebody,

I did not intend my response to be "religious BS" "jargon" or in any way judgemental or harassing. I thought I had heard your cry, understood your anger and resentment, and taken the philosophical argument to its logical conclusion. I'm not condemning your thoughts, just exploring them ... where do they lead? Is it where you wanted to go?

Also, I did not reject or denegrate your opinion of many religious people. I've seen the same attitudes and can clearly see and hear why you feel that way. I'm not harranging you, castigating you, or trying to hurt you, I know you are dealing with a very difficult situation, and sometimes the only vent available is to blame others - but I didn't do those things you've laid at my feet, and neither did God. Should people judge who you are by looking at how your grandfather treats you? People let you down - they always will. People aren't perfect.

You asked me specifically if "my God" would be responsible for your life if you believed in Him. That's a funny question. You see, I believe "my God" is sovereign. I believe He is in control, even when it hurts, even when I can't see Him, even when a baby dies. I believe "my God" allows me the freedom of free-will. Lots of times I don't understand it, and the pain is hard to bear, and man oh man ... do I hear you! I want to beg and plead and cry out, "WHERE ARE YOU?" But I've explored the depths ... and I KNOW "my God" is Just. I'm not preaching to you, or trying to make you believe in "my God" ... just answering your question as best as I can.

Be easy - lets drop the stereotyped "religious bigot" speech, and try to really see who we both are. I think I see you, and I recognize the hurt and anger. I'm not trying to rain on your pity party, just humming a little counterpoint to spice it up. ;>
~FyreFly
"It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt!"

Thank you punkerd and deefer...I don't think I will change my views...doing ok. Need to try not to be so nasty and hurt people, They are sincere. They truly believe what they believe as I do. why does that have to be so loaded!

I am listening to Penn and Teller Bullshit..It helps.

I am a skeptic. I don't need the religion BS I just don't but no reason to harangue people who do. GOD why argue its "god and faith and ideas" why do I do this.

Jsomebody..again I say follow your own heart and your own choices...there's always room for change if you feel it one day. We go through trials in life all the time as we go through it..your feelings on a subject may this way one day and different from years to come. Change is always good...and you have the right to change if you want...and if you don't that's okay too. Do what is best for you and yours!

Forget about what everyone else thinks about your situation. You live it every day! Remember there are those of us out here that really care about you and want things to get better for you. Just be kinder to yourself, and don't let others make you doubt what you feel! You are a good person. Please take care of yourself!!!

I am with you Jsomebody. I believe in God but I dont trust any religious leader. It is not all their fault either. They have been indoctrinated in their religious beliefs for generations and it is hard to overcome that belief. My father until the day he died believed he was going to hell because he could not go to mass on Sunday. He did not trust in God's mercy because he had been told since he was born that you had to go to mass on Sunday. He was 86, totally bedridden and demential but that was the one truth that he had. What a way to go. To me that is not God.

I don't think I should say so much though. It really is sensitive issue. When you consider fundamentalist Islamists KILL people who disagree with them or disabuse their prophet even in the ,mildest form. I mean fatwahs on cartoonists. People are emotional beings and a need to believe in a higher power or god and religion to help them get through their daily struggles is a tremendous thing. why should I be surprised people are angry at my blase' insistence that i do not agree with their concept of the world when they "KNOW THE TRUTH!!!"

Jsomebody..BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE IN..YOU HAVE THE FREEDOM...NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS IN HERE!

I believe in God, but not religion, so to most religious people I may as well be an Atheist. I change my mind, I "pray" and beg for help, I do what is expected of me and hope it ends soon, but I do not FEEL God any where, I do not see God I feel totally alone and bereft, I am on my own, but I have hope there is more. But I do not see it. I don't feel the need to worship a corpse on a stick. I do not believe anything man says about "God" that they claim to be concrete and true and absolute fact. I see all religion as a form of social control, meant to create hierarchies and scare others into obeying ones commands. I don't need it, there is enough social control in the temporal world with out the added fantasy as well. I KNOW I am responsible for my life and my decisions, are you saying if I believed in your god I wouldn't be? or are you trying to bait and shame me into agreeing with your take on God and the universe? From what I have read if Christ came to this world today I doubt he would see much of himself in many Christians. Selfish, greedy, judgmental, blaming, damning even over the merest of things that are not seen as "right" by those claiming the call. And Christians don't own the market on judgmental attitudes. Many fundamentalists of all religions, are just as convinced the others have it all wrong, partially wrong or in the case of Islam: that they just have not perfected religion as they have in theirs. That is politics to me, not GOD not hope not faith. But to those inside it, it is Absolute Truth and damn any one who has the temerity to disagree with them. Fine, damn me. It doesn't do a thing.

Everyone has their own beliefs, thats why we live in a so called free country! What you do or do not believe in is up to you. I beleive in God and trust me I know how you feel. I have my 81 year old mom with me in my home because my 2 sisters,her brother and sisiter did not have time or want to look after her in her own home. An you do get tired of hearing you will be blessed(and the very person telling you this is not even offering any help). But I can say this, I know there is a God because through all my complaints and tears, everytime it looks like I cant face another day,something unexpected comes through and makes that day a little easier! I wake up each morning and that is a blessing itself! It wont last forever, and Im just reminded how much my mom sacrificed,cried and worried from the time I was born until the time she could no longer remember to be worried about me! Thats how I get thru my day. even if you dont believe in God,believe in yourself!!!!

Dear jsomebody,

I read your post, and I spent some time thinking about what you said … not just the words but the ideas, hurt, anger and pain, and all of the rest behind it. I am not responding in defense of God – He doesn’t need me to “defend” His existence. I am also not responding to offer you platitudes or empty encouragement. I hope that I am honestly and with all respect, providing you with more to think about in your life’s journey, and maybe, just “maybe” something more.

By your own words, you deny that there is a creator, a sovereign entity that is ultimately in control of your life. Then by your own admission the only person to blame is … you. By rejecting any other valid argument, you set yourself up as the ultimate cause. That means you are where you are today because of your own decisions. Since you are in charge of your life, you have no one else to blame.

You have conveniently chosen atheism … which is a belief system which requires just as much faith in its precepts as any other religion. So, by your own words you are just lazy, insignificant, and worthless. If you cannot accept that you were created by God, an incredible creation by design, chosen, or put here for a reason ... then your existence, your life, everything you are going through since you were born is meaningless.

I am looking earnestly at the abyss you accept as your reality. You are striking out at people who have in your opinion, offered you empty promises, lied to you, or did not live up to the expectations you placed on them. You reject the existence of “something more than this” because you cannot see God at work in their lives. As you focus more and more intently on your own hurts, woes, struggles and heartaches, you are more and more convinced that there is simply no hope, no way out. They are no better off than you, unless they by random chance chose better than you did. Every single one of us will face struggles, heartache, and loss. Every one of us faces the final countdown – death.

If I believed that, accepted that, I would see no reason to keep trying. My faith in God doesn’t solve all my problems. It doesn’t make me rich, or successful – I am not better or somehow more worthy than you … I’m just another sinner, another beggar in this world who is willing to share my crust of bread … but I know where my hope is, and where it's not. It’s not in myself.

Where is your hope found? Instead of looking down or inward … look up. There is something about turning our focus outside of our own selves that helps to bring everything else into perspective.

On their album “For Those Who Wait,” FireFlight says it better:

When you’re fighting to believe in a love that you can’t see
Just know there is a purpose
For those who wait

God, I’m gonna lean into You now
Letting go of all my fear and doubt
I can’t do this on my own so I’ll give You control
I know I’m not the only one

The pressure makes us stronger
The struggle makes us hunger
The hard lessons make the difference
And the difference makes it worth it

~FyreFly
p.s. I seriously recommend a book by Lee Strobel, a former athiest, "The Case for Christ" - it is his invesigative journey, and well worth the read.

I guess I am the opposite. I have works with out faith. I do what is necessary and there is not love or much genuine care behind it, I am just a "human doing" as John Bradshaw coined.

faith without works is dead

love only in word but not in truth and in action is hate

beam me out of here!

Caring for my old, feeble,demented parents, I can say that I think I understand your frustration. You know, "been there, done that" sort of thing.
But it is comforting to me to be able to talk to someone bigger than myself and to receive strength for the day. Not tomorrow or next week but the day at hand. I go it one day at a time. That doesn't change the frustrations of the day whatever they may be but it softens it. I always told my kids when they would complain, "life is hard and it is hard all the way through it". I find I tell myself that at least twice a day now. P.S. I also get frustrated when people tell me they are praying for me. Prayers are nice but put some feet and hands to those prayers, please.

I see flowers and sun sets and tree and mountains and love them but I don't see god. There is also, poverty, murder, sexual abuse of women and children on a scale disgusting to realize, terrorism, bigotry hatred, disease, despair, I imagine there would god be also. Can't say as I am grateful for that either. Don't want it, don't need it. Life just is what it is to me.

Why he isn't a home? he doesn't want to go to one, feels he is entitled to be care for as "He looked after us." which he didn't and the money he has is there because my grandmother was a hard working penny pinching book keeper who saved and invested for 60 + years.
I am here because I am broke and a coward and unwilling to stand up for myself I guess. One of those people beaten down by life. Still it is my choice and my responsibility to change my life. But it won't always be so...things are slowly moving. But it will have to be me that moves it, as my mothers denial is so think and so deep as to be immovable to all but an explosion or total destruction.

If grandpa has too much money to qualify for Medicaid and your mother doesn't want him to go to a nursing home, either find someone to come in and help (he'll have to pay, of course) and/or have your mother do the work that your are doing. She might change her mind about the nursing home then. BUT DO SOMETHING!!! Don't allow this to be the reason you turn from GOD because there is a GOD, you just forgot to acknowledge him by not smelling the flowers he made and looking up at the beautiful sky, the ocean, mountains...you name it HE made it for us to enjoy. Go out and enjoy yourself. I know, I've been there and I almost allowed my dad to suck the life out of me until I got together when his doctors and had him Baker Acted and now he's in an assisted living facility. I still visit him and make sure all his needs are met, but I don't have to do it by myself. It took years and now every morning as I walk my little dog I look up at the sky and say PRAISE YOU LORD!!!

Hi Jsomebody,
I was saying religious people say god already has a plan for each person, but then when the going gets rough they pray to him to change it to suit there emotional wants. I don't get that at all. Which actually do they believe in? So that is why I feel what would be the gift from a god is this life and our ability to make decisions. And to better things from the experience of decisions that did not work out so well. To think, to decide, to calculate, that is what I believe we were given and to do the best we can. I think hell is the time I spend wishing I could change what I did wrong. Your grandpa's dementia is far greater than my mom's 1 stage of Alzheimer's. They do things that are not them. It is very hard for us to separate it because the physical and mental demands on you is so great. Too much for a person. If he has the money why are you taking care of him???? I will not take care of my mom. I have been, but I will not continue. I will make sure she is in a good place. And I will visit and look after her. I don't deserve her hardship (she has always be rather selfish) on me, and my children do not deserve it from me. Though I have been a far better mom to them and they appreciate it!
Put your foot down. You are not the designated slave caregiver here. Give him right back to your mom. Have a walk out date for her and make her come to grips with this. This is where I am saying you have a choice. Whether god given or not you do not do this to yourself. You control what you do, what you say, think, decide how to view things, etc. This is why I don't pray for things. I have already been given all of the above mentioned. I am not going to whine to god he must do something for me when I already have my mind and life and nobody controls me. I will find a way to get it all to work.
Please gather the strength to love yourself enough to put yourself first.
Good luck. Maybe we can all get away from the god subject, and find a way for you to get your life back and give grandpa a place to receive the care he needs. Give us some new questions and I will help where I can.

When it does come down to it, it is personal choices. No one can live inside your mind and body but you. I did waste a lot of time waiting on God because people said he would do this and that....nothing came. I really regret the time I lost. If you look at the American Athesists website they are not god haters or devil worshipers or anything like that...it is more enlightening about the subject I mentioned earlier a Natural Rule one that we can dictate ourselves. But ignorance breeds a lot of fear and folks who have fear sometimes hide behind religion. Religious wars have been awful through time, so has wars to conquer land, conquering nations and enslavement by corupt governments. It's a grab bag of craziness...but if you boil it all down..humans are in charge for the most part. Nature itself is a strong issue to deal with and no amount of brains can deflect the mightiness of nature. Look for example horrible earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis, hurricanes, fire, landslides, caveins, plagues, draught. Many of these are from natures side of things. Then there are the things manmade, wars, genocide, germ warfare, nuclear threats, diseases, pollution, global warming, terroists. These can be thwarted at the hands of mankind, but we choose not to do so, due to jealousy, hatred, greed, ignorance. If only we can bring all of mankind up, to where all are treated equally, but sigh, I don't see that ever happening. So we trudge on. I don't know if the future holds good for the human race. I see it declining every day. It's almost like a Science Fiction novel slowly unfolding and we are in the Preface section (at the beginning). You can see the haves and the have nots in the world so clearly. Some of the Haves help and the others hold tightly to their almighty $$$. So here it brings us back to the beginning. You can only do the best you can in the environment you have amd continously strive to get better and do better when you get the chance. I too have been cheated and molded by my parents. They kept their mind shut to what I would have wished for myself. I feel like their prisoner, but once I am out from under any obligation to the last one, I will claim my freedom...Finally and watch me ..... no one will stop me now. It will be like the old "Old Spice" Commercial from the 60's and 70's. 'Grab all the Gusto'. I cannot wait.

No he can't get Medicaid he has too much money and mother does not want him in a nursing home.

I don't believe in god "the great he" or the concept of "The Plan" I really don't One could just as likely argue isn't it rude to assume god has a plan for us and to make no effort in life I guess. Then you say we have the ability to help our selves, I am not sure which it is that you are saying is correct then pre-ordained life as set pattern or free will makes the life?

Thank you for your input though.

We have been given a life. We do the best we can and try to do what is right. We see our failures and try to correct them and do better next time.
That to me is the gift from god. Praying for change, would that not be asking a deity to change their mind or plan as so many religions say "he has a plan"? So then we would be praying for he/she to change their plan to suit us and our situation. We have the ability to choose directions and help ourselves. Silly to push onto to god to tell us what to do when he already gave us the ability to do so.
Is your grandpa not able to be on medicaid and in a nursing home? You could visit him there. Please take care of yourself!! You can't do this alone nor should anyone or any religious feeling make you think you should.

Sorry but when someone asks if I have asked God about it I feel like saying "Duh, Why didnt I think of that?"

"fabric of life one makes by their choices " and it is such free will to make these choices that takes the risk of either good or evil, healing or destruction take place. Like one of my favorite lines from the Christmas Carole, "I wear the chains that I forged in life." We become our choices. which is very true when it comes to family of origin issues. As my therapist and I have discussed. Once you see how your family of origin issues led you to make certain bad choices or have poor boundaries, then you can no longer use what your parents did as an excuse, a crutch for now you can make a choice to stay that way or not. This is something that I'm dealing with now myself and I'm still making choices which is not easy after being forced into someone else's mold and just know at 53 really getting to know who I really am.

That is a very interesting idea punkersad. the fabric of life one makes by their choices and what options come up or disappear or change in some way by all the decisions one makes in life. that really is a cool idea thank you for sharing that with us all...
I think truly, some choices open up ones life, I imagine, while some might narrow ones options. I have often though drug addiction would be the sort of choice where once you made it all other decisions to come would be made by the drug from then on. Or breaking the law, that will limit your options, yet who knows it may open some possibilities and put one in touch with people one would not have met before and a bad thing could become a good thing.

Punkersad, have you read "One" by Richard Bach? It talks about choices, choices, choices... One of my favorite books

I understand exactly where you are coming from and am glad that someone has said it. I am a great believer in God but I am also a believer in free will and God helps those who help themselves. I do not believe that everything is pre-ordained. For some reason I think God starts the thread, then we chose between 2 different paths, then 2 more paths, then 2 more. The pattern of the tapestry is developed by our choices not God's. It is like a never ending maze that sometimes leads us forward and sometimes leads us back. It is our choices-- not God's that determine what happens. I will give God the credit but not the blame. Asking if I have prayed to God about this bothers me because I do pray and God does answer me but that is between God and me. Sometimes I am stupid and dont hear or listen and sometimes I do but it is my Choice to do that. it is like a man stuck on a roof in a flood. A person comes by in a car and the man Says God will save me, The water goes higher, someone comes by in a boat but the man says god will save me, Someone comes by with a helicopter and the man says God will save me. The man gets to heaven and asks God why he didnt save him and God says " I sent you a car, boat and helcopter. What else did you want?" I am a great believer that God will provide me the tools and I can take advantage of them or not. The people who pray pray the people who dont dont but that does not mean they are bad people or that they will be punished for not praying.

I think I care, I don't just dismiss everything. I don't think anyone is here though, I don't even get the sense my grandmother is watching or aware of all that is going on any more. I can tell you she would be really upset to know all we do and do not get paid for. She was always very keep things even and pay people who do you a service and do owe people sort of person.
I do feel totally alone in this. Not scared just alone like it doesn't matter what happens and it just doesn't matter...maybe I need a strong dose of anti-depressants I don't know.
I don't know, but for many people there is more comfort in the belief that they DO KNOW that and every one else is wrong. but that is politics.
I don't know, just here, going along doing what is needed, there is nothing else to do, or I choose to do this. I do, I could just walk away and go to a homeless shelter, but I choose to be here to help my mother and grandfather and when it is over I will be grateful and start looking for a job and just move on from this section of my life. Thank you for your help.

Thank you edvierajr , I still have hope and don't want to be a bully I put don't read it if this is gonna bug you on it. I don't read on when I see warning on subject I know might bother me. Oh well it is what it is. I would agree religion is definitely a form of social control for better or for worse. Through out history religion has been about judgment and hierarchy whether temporal or in the after life to come...I love Christmas music and good works and caring for ones fellow human beings but I don't need the rest. What you may and may not do, measurements for ones goodness and punishments for various misdeeds...for those who do, it isn't wrong necessarily, just not my thing.
I agree there is plenty we can't control in life but so much more we can. not life and death matters so much as day to day and what tasks and goals we set for ourselves, life doesn't usually just fall into ones lap.
I am not sure I am looking for a higher power. I know i would like to be rich to make this physical world a bit easier but I don't feel god would either care for me personally or need to bother, if god exited at all. i don't know. I don't feel any one is "looking after me" but my mother and to some degree the society in which I live (no I am not on disability). I mean figuratively the rights and rules by which we live and the infrastructure of the city I live in. I know I am better off than 3/4 of the world on a purely day to day physical basis..Though I was not on a roof top in New Orleans either...those rights and rules and infrastructure of our daily lives can be devastated by a major whether phenomenon pretty fast! Then I guess ones higher power is FEMA god help you...
Seriously weird post now eh?

Anyway, J., you think of God and of religious/spiritual matters a lot. So I think you should find your answers (because it is clear you look for answers). I know many people who do not care at all about God, religion, spirituality. They live their life without even posing themselves questions of that kind. They can be good people, bad people, does not matter; what it matters is they do not care, while U care!
This is just my opinion.

Thank you Pirate. I am basically there too. I should know better than to mention my views but I said not to read it if the concept of being against religions would bother you on the opener. I am sorry I hurt peoples feelings but I am entitled to my views.
I think religion has done as much harm if not more than good in this world, but people seem to like hate and killing so much I suppose they would choose to did it any way even if not in "defense of the faith" or "because god told them to".
It is interesting in that is is culture and historical and human, but I just don't believe any of religions precepts and pronouncements whether for the here and now or the here after. Nor the biased smug assertions of the righteous that they alone are the knowledgeable conduit to god.
I have very religious relative including a born again christian brother who molested me, and then said what we had done was a sin and said he needed me to forgive him...Then it happened again...So I guess part of my disdain for religion in general is profoundly personal, but then so is religion.
If it makes people feel better and be better people and they feel complete in their world and beyond views, so be it, nothing wrong with that, life can be hard,and what helps you helps you, but it doesn't mean it is true. Most of the angry people on this post would take great um-bridge to that statement, but they would be just as unwilling to allow that a devout muslim or a conservative/orthodox jew has it "right". The old, "They can't all be right argument", hell, why not, every one is right, every one is wrong doesn't change anything to me, till I or another innocent victim are personally under the gun of the god person making a statement by killing people they don't like for their god that week.If you know what I mean...

That I am sure would bother some people, but the view such as..say: the miners in Chile' who have been found alive and well and may live to see their loved ones again, will be called a "miracle" and be said "god was looking out for them." so I guess god was not looking out for the miners in the last US mine disaster because they died? It certainly gives the view that to be alive is preferable to being dead, but gives little comfort to the family of the men killed. It is vacuous, why would god want one set of miners dead the other alive? I don't see anything but human thinking in this, and yes, I can conceptualize that "god's actions and reasoning" would very likely be over my head. tho the concept that things simply happen in life makes sense.
Maybe I am just too negative. I suppose, one could use their religion to try to put a positive spin on everything. ie: Nothing can be bad, because it is all gods will. ,Even when terrible things happen, of course then one is told both it is the will of god what happened and that one must not be pissed off at god about it after wards. I guess I am a pessimist, I would rather think it is not god will and reserve the right to be angry that god let it happen any way. I am not a Sagittarius. Maybe the ones most angry have really good lives and don't come across a lot of misery and so feel grateful more often than bitter and like to feel god is on their side personally. That is certainly flattering to ones ego and grist for the feeling that They are god chosen people and others suffer out of punishment. Granted it is probably more comfortable than feeling one is on ones own, but I still choose the vapors. I have to think, I need sense and fact and reason and simplistic story book answers and trite catch all phrases will not work in my life. Maybe that is unfortunate, but it is what it is, who I am and what I choose. Lucky I can choose it, in some nations of this world, religions sway is all encompassing and could get one shot, or stoned to death for any divergence from the majority. For this, I am indeed grateful I live in the USA among other things.
Any how, many people have expressed their views religiously and politically, Why should I be slammed for doing the same. Every one is entitled to their opinion, right. Maybe mine is less common here and in general society and people would rather talk about god looking after them and their loved ones than here, I don't believe that myself but have a nice day?

J:

Thanks for your post. Although a recovering Catholic (I don't mean drugs), I have always oriented my heart towards the Good in order to achieve Justice for everyone. Instead of praying for people, I advocate and teach them strategies so they can alleviate their suffering, improve their lot, and take personal responsibility for their own lives. For me to say, for instance, that someone's misery has been pre-ordained or that what's important is the saving the soul is essentially communicating to the individual that he/she is weak, has no control, and that the best course of action during tough situations is to go with the flow because the final outcome is not up to them anyway. ... Horsehockey! ... In my book, only dead fish go with the flow.

I consider organized religions a powerful tool for social control, a formula for so-called "clean" living in which using your own brain to build or strengthen our faith is considered heresy. Still, I believe we're all spiritual beings having a human experience, and therefore life is a constant learning process. My concept of "faith" is hope -- that things will get better if we earnestly strive to transcend the limits of our own humanity by learning to do something with all this "awareness" we claim to possess, and to see people and things for what they really are instead of what we would like them to be.

As the resilient caregivers that we are, we must not allow someone else's perception of us become our reality. ... We're constantly searching for a source of strength other than our own. To some, belief in a Higher Power is all that they need. To others religion is another hiding place. To most that extra strength must be culled from a multitude of sources. We have no choice but to take what we want to get what we really need, even if it offends someone else's religious sensibilities.

Do not apologize for the way you feel. ... We understand.

-- ED