How much time do most adult children spend with their parents each week, because with my mother it's never enough?

so how do you handle a situation to where your mother in law has to see her son at least 6 to 7 times a day and during the weekends she insists that her son eat breakfast with her verses spending time with his family...? I don't want to hurt feelings but she now is inviting him over for dinner as well 2 to 3x a week?

You have spent enough time with your Mother when you have balance in YOUR life. You're trying to bail water out (time) when there’s a hole in the bottom of the boat (never enough.) It's impossible to be everything someone wants you to be.
Give her a set of, let’s see - 3 choices for the week.
A caregiver for a couple hours a week, a trip to the senior center and drop her off, a set amount of time with you at set times only, or maybe a call everyday for 5 min and stick to it. Balance means your life is not overwhelming, collapsing, full of guilt, but has joy, friends, family and time for yourself.

Spend as much time as you can, however, do not feel guilty if you cannot be there. Your mother may not express this to you, because her sense of time is very different from your sense of time. Keep that in mind and perhaps that will ease your mind .

54J: ASK .... no TELL them you need their help. NO room for negotiation! Tell them to come over, and have a LIST of things you need help with. I am ashamed of them for NOT helping! But you need to play the "PARENT" card and TELL them to help.

If they have excuses... ignore them... TELL them again, and again until they help.

I pray this will work... I truly do.

WHAT??? You mean adult children are supposed to spend time with their parents? Shoot I have been caring for my husband their dad for 5 years and they live in the same town, could count on one hand the time they have come. Mostly Christmas!! Oh well I guess they are afraid I will ask them to do something for their dad. But no I take care of him myself. Only me and thats ok, they will be old one day and maybe in the same shape. Alz is a terrible disease! Bitter?? You bet ya I am!!! But I dont take it out on him. I married him for better or worse and now it is really worse!

Jeanne: you are most welcome. If my words were comforting, I am glad. They are also truthful from my experiences. I went through similar situations with my mother, the accusations, the guilt, the nasty words, all of it. It took me a while to learn how to handle what my mother was saying, and doing. We can learn from this/their experience, they will not.

SAK: thank you for your comments. I did re-read the post from the beginning. And not knowing a complete history of the mother/daughter relationship in any other case than my own, my comments were based on my experiences. However visiting was the topic. Whether the person is manipulative or understanding, the issue is still:

How much should we visit our loved ones, because enough is never enough? If you can use 'tough love' to make someone behave then by all means use it. But in reality, that doesn't always work either. It can backfire. I saw my brothers use this 'tough love' tactic with my mother even BEFORE her dementia onset, and it only served to make the situation worse. Perhaps some would disagree, but I really believe that people don't remember WHAT you say, but how you say it. You can administer 'tough love' without hurting someone's feelings. For example: telling someone that their family doesn't visit because YOU are driving them away with your anger is not as effective as say..... "I believe your family would visit more if we could get to the root of your anger/annoyance when they do visit" . I will say it again, telling ANYONE whether it is the case or not, that their family doesn't visit because they are mean to their family just seems to add insult to injury. Just my personal opinion, one that I should probably temper more so "I" am not misunderstood. I have learned that how you make someone feel, is more important that what you say!

Although I didn't get paid to work in the rehab/nursing home, after one month of visiting I was invited to be a volunteer by the director of the facility. They were impressed with the way I interacted with the residents, engaging them in activities, getting them to eat, even making them laugh! Since I was at Mom's facility four days a week, 8-9 HOURS a day, I was honoured to be a volunteer, I just didn't get paid. My independent training helped me tremendously. I also educated myself as much as I could in the last six years and continue to learn with every person I meet in every facility. No 'one' approach works all the time. Every person is different, every situation requires a creative approach, while still working within the guidelines of the facility.

I am fully aware of the demands on the staff, I saw first hand how much the staff had to do in a single shift, and also learned (privately) how underpaid and overworked these individuals were. I completely agree that MANY changes are needed to the 'system' and the level of care that is provided to residents.

But I also saw how many just 'showed up' for work, and relied on other staff members (or volunteers) to pick up the slack. The things I noticed were not serious infractions, but in many instances the little things overlooked were more annoying to me than even "I" imagined. Not washing residents hands before meals was a MAJOR issue for me. Personally I saw to it that Mom's hands were clean (even with some resistance) before meals.

I noticed that many of the staff did not even TRY to engage the residents. Very little conversations, or interactions during certain shifts, and believe me I was there for most of the shifts. Shift changes were also a volatile time. On several occasions residents 'slipped' out the FRONT door of a supposed secure wing, or walked outside in the secure area, WITHOUT supervision, one man attempting to climb the FENCE (and he was in his 80's!!) I found another man on the ground outside and had to RUN for help! I did bring ALL of these occurrences to the attention of the proper personnel at the facility and I did notice some changes while I was there in the next few months. This was mostly due to a NEW administrator with more "Alzheimer's experience".

With regards to family visits, I didn't see too many family members visiting, and when they did visit didn't stay long. The family members didn't seem to come prepared, and some had THE longest faces on I have ever seen. If you don't bring anything else, at LEAST bring a smile!

To quote a OLD group... (The animals) "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good... oh LORD.. please don't let me be misunderstood."

Jeann -You certainly have your hands full with all the caregiveing you are doing I admire that you still take the time to help others here. I had a very difficult husband and nothing I would do was enough he was only 71 when he died-I had to use tough love with him when he would argue with me in the beginning of the almost 20 times he was in rehab I would end up crying but as the years went by I decided that I did not deserve to be treated the way he was treating me and he told everyone I did not do much for him -so from then on if he was nasty to me in rehab or the hospital I would leave and go home and if he did his rants on the phone then I would not go to visit him that was the only way I got through to him a little. The lady who asked the question on this thread seems to have a mother who does not have demetia but is very spoilded and wants too much attention and I agree with Carol's answer,

We never seem to spend enough time with our parents. That feeling doesn't go away, especially when you're new at caregiving. However, remember what time you do spend with your precious parents, deep down in your heart you know that you have been with them and/or have seen them that day, hour, second or week. Each of those moments in "time" are important to them unbeknownst to you. It's important that you commend yourself for giving "all that time" to your dear parents. You know you are appreciated. You have my support. Even tho your parents may not express this to you, their way of thinking & expressing themselves have changed. God Bless.

sak9, one size doesn't fit all! Some situations call for tough love, and some call for finger painting with frosting! :) What I endure for my husband I would not put up with for 20 minutes from someone in good mental health. Being related by blood and being old do not entitle parents to be abusive and manipulative in my book. But I have a whole lot more tolerance when folks are themselves victims of a very abusive and debilitating mental illness. Tough love ... unconditional acceptance. It is a broad spectrum. I suspect the most successful long term care staff are those with the greatest ability to be flexible and fit their approach to the specific situation.

To Miamadre... I truly love your answer. I just wish with all my heart that every elder in a nursing home had you for a daughter. But that is not the case. I have had families in my office weeping because of the horrid words said to them by their mother(dad). My answer is called "tough love." Please reread the daughter's story. The mother, evidently, has a history of control and manipulation and now putting a guilt trip on family members.
I was "called" to care for the elderly in nursing homes. It was my ministry and I loved each and every elder no matter what they did or said. I am sorry I offended you but sometimes a tough decision had to be made and this was one that, after many talks with elders like the one we are discussing, I took the "tough love" route. I respect you deeply for your answer, however, if you have never been a staff member in a nursing home, most people have no idea what we go through and often blamed for every little thing that, according to family and society, we are not doing according to their standards. I have written a book on nursing homes as I truly feel that changes are necessary but we need help from families, the churches and society as a whole.

MiaMadre, thank you for your words of kindness.

The hardest part for me of my husband's dementia was when he was paranoid and accused me of stealing, holding him captive against his will, tried calling the sherrff (sometimes from neighbor's homes) and generally showed no appreciation for the fact I was devoting my life to his care. I got through it with the mantra of "it is not my husband saying these things, it is the disease." I am so glad he is not in that state any more! But I also think that if he goes there again (and who knows, with dementia?) I will be a little better equipped to handle it, knowing a lot more now about what to expect from dementia. I know this: I will not abandon him. I will not give him ultimatums. I will not insist he control behaviors that are not within his control. If I have to move him out of our home, I will visit him as much as humanly possible. He did not get a choice about having dementia. I have a choice about my response. In sickness and in health, for better or for worse, he's the love of my life.

I have to answer SAK9's response. I see you have a life long career with elders, but how does it really help to use such harsh talk when dealing with our elders? I had a loving relationship with my mother, and even though her demeanor in the rehab/nursing home was less than perfect, I didn't care if she 'p'd in my shoes I was going to visit her. Their bad mood/ reluctance to get involved is NO different than when we were growing up and refused to participate, were moody or downright surly with our parents. I must say that even though a few may be helped with this 'ultimatum tactic' I was shocked to read it from you considering your experience! Surely this was not your only approach!

When it comes to Alzheimer's many times my mother didn't recognize me AS her daughter, but "I" still knew she was my mother!! Many times she told me to 'GO AWAY" and I did... I left her room, or her side and sat with some of the others in the hall, or the dining room, until she was more calm. Then I would 'visit' again and see what the "Mom weather" was.

My mother taught me to her dying day, that if you show KINDNESS... you will get a better response with BETTER results than if you use harsh words, actions or even (sorry) ultimatums!

So many of our elders sit in nursing homes without visitors, because they are in "bad mood" or don't behave the way "WE" expect them to. Would it be so easy for us to sit somewhere other than the home we knew, surrounded by strangers? Never knowing who (if anyone) is coming to visit? I don't think so.

We have GOT to find a way to make their golden years on earth as pleasant as we can. I tire of the 'bad cop' routine that many use in facilities, only to make our elders "behave"!!!! God forgive those that take this approach. Wouldn't we label it as 'child abuse' if the same were done to children? I consider this 'elder abuse' when they are ignored or told to 'behave'!

I don't mean to offend, or defy those who have dedicated their lives to caring for elders, but let's not make it "our way or the highway" when it comes to their care or even for family members to decide on visiting.

Bring something to do, take them for a walk, or just sit and listen to them complain! Some of it can easily be understood if we put ourselves in THEIR position. If you had an understanding mother, return the favor by listening. If you had a 'terrible mother' then be a better person yourself, by listening to them!

And example: My mother was always a very private person, and the thoughts of someone 'helping' her in the bathroom was nothing short of an invasion of her privacy in her mind, even later in her demented state. I watched one C.N.A. (nursing assistant) use stern measure to get Mom to comply, and watch my mother "clock" her with a right upper cut punch. This of course resulted in my mother being put on "probation and given medication to 'calm her'!!!! THEN, I explained to the head nurse that my mother was a very private person and considered anyone in the bathroom as a 'rapist' they assigned another C.N.A. to my mother's room. She politely "ASKed" my mother if she could help her to the bathroom, so she would not slip or fall, and let her know just what she was doing for her (wiping, changing, etc) and I saw my mother's discontent turn into a smile. Mom said "thank you" instead of punching her! Her hearing loss made it difficult for her to hear others, or maybe they were not even bothering to say anything!
Hearing loss in our elders usually means that they do NOT Have any idea what is happening and this causes many of the problems.

As far as how much one should visit? That is a question only YOU can answer for yourself. Ask yourself how you will feel once they have passed and you can no longer visit? Will you be able to say "I did all I could" .... or will you say "I should have done more"?

When my mother passed away, I knew in my heart that I had spent all the time I could with her, even when she was RANTING about wanting to go home, and the bad food, and the bad bed, and the heat, and the cold, and the ... and the.... well you get my drift.

I know there are others in my family that WISH they would have visited more, taken the time to just GO and listen.... suck it up and forget about yourself... do it for them.... even the WORST parent did something good... they brought US into the world. DO what you can to be a better 'parent' to them if you had the worst parent in the world. Show them that even with the WORST example, "YOU" still turned out to be a good person!!!!

ME... I was blessed with one of the best mother's in the world, and as I look at a picture of her, I can breathe easy knowing that even though she may not be here, at least I was 'there' for her!!!!

tearfully.......

MiaMadre, what a great list of practical suggestions. I'm sure they are very useful for many people.

It is also true that they would not be suitable for everyone. One size does not fit all! My dear 95-year-old Aunt would probably welcome group activities and crafts. That is the kind of thing she has done in the 60+ years I have known her. My mother, on the other hand, has never done a single craft as long as I've known her. Not her thing. I can't remember ever hearing about her doing group activities. All her sisters did. Not my mom. Playing cards, maybe. Finger painting with frosting, I don't think so! I think it would be cruel of us to insist that she do something against her personality, inclinations, and life-long habits, just because she is old (or old and disabled, as the case may be)! My husband (dementia) goes to an adult program 3 days a week. The reason he has lasted there 4 years is that they respect individual differences. They offer all kinds of crafts but they don't insist that everyone particpate. If he'd rather sit in the quiet room and read a book instead of paint flower pots, that is OK.

BTW, as a cake decorator hobbyist, I can tell you that getting edible flowers is tricky. The flower itself may be safe, but virtually everything you buy from a florist will have been chemically treated. Getting them from your garden or a friend's garden may be safe if you know they haven't been sprayed. Flower arranging sounds like an engaging activity. I can't see either my mother or my husband doing it, but they might enjoy a demonstration and watching the activity.

I like your can-do attitude!

What wonderful answers from those who are experiencing a controlling Mom(or Dad). As a 30 year nursing home administrator, this is what I tell the family when a parent thinks the children should 1. take them home to live with them; 2. says, "you put me in a nursing home and then stole all my money(farm, etc.). "Tell mom that if she continues to complain, places guilt on those who visit, refuses to take part in activities, etc., we will just stop visiting. This may sound difficult, however, I have noted it often helps. When Mom asks for her children, we are always truthful and tell her that her attitude has chased them away. Now that said, sometimes the proper medication will help or contact a homeopathic therapist for proper homeopathics.

SO often family doesn't want to visit because they just don't know WHAT to do with them while you ARE visiting. Well...that's easy..... bring something WITH you to do, and ask them for help. If they don't want to help, just start the project, and then again gently ask a question: "Am I doing this right?" " can you show me how YOU did this?"

Suggestions for those that cannot get their elder to 'join in all the reindeer games'

Find something they love to do... paint, crochet, quilting, cooking. Then get some safe 'supplies' that pertain to that activity. See if you can talk them into providing instruction, or just start the activity yourself. Get them interested and then ask for their HELP.

Start up a painting class (finger painting, non-toxic acrylic painting, or even CAKE decorating supplies used as paint). Use wipeable surfaces, like a lap tray, or a table cloth that is wipeable. Get some inexpensive aprons to protect clothing, and get started!

If they loved to quilt, get THEM to start a class. Collect fabric, or even just look at quilt books.

Flower arranging. buy some inexpensive cut flowers, a few plastic vases, or styrofoam shapes, and get your elder to start up a class!! p.s. you can get flowers that are edible (and safe) so there is NO chance that someone will 'eat something' dangerous. My mother was unwilling to get involved, UNTIL I had her 'spearhead' the event. Then even putting together a simple flower arrangement became a social event!

It takes work, but there is always something they can do! Just don't give up on them, I for one had a mother that was always encouraging me to be creative when I was growing up. If you didn't have a parent like that, then be different and help them, even though they didn't help you. Make a difference in THEIR life!

You are definitely not alone. My mother is in AL b/c she fell several times at home and AL was the right thing to do. She's 87 yrs old, my stepfather passed away 2 yrs ago, she can't walk with a walker so she's in a wheelchair to get around. She gets around very well in a wheelchair so I thought she would be able to at least join a few groups and make a lot of friends. My mother was always a very friendly person so I thought she would make a lot of friends. She's been in AL for almost a year now and won't join in any activity. She stays in her room and watches TV all day long. When I call her, she complains about everything and it's very hard to keep up the conversation. When she first went to AL I called her 3 times a day b/c I didn't want her to think I just dumped her there. Our conversations were short so I decided that 2 times a day would be better. I've checked with the people at the AL and they said that some of the women just come down for meals and then go back to their rooms. We try to visit my mother at least once a week and I'm sure that's not enough for her. We live an hour away. When we see her, she's always in her room with the tv on and if you try to have a conversation, it's always about the tv show and she starts complaining. I picked this particular AL facility b/c it was near her neighbors and friends but unfortunately my sister and brother are scarce. My sister visits once every 3 weeks and never calls her. My brother never visits and has his wife call my mother every 2 weeks. I'm just stating all these things b/c you are not alone. This is the best place to vent. So many of us can relate. You just have to do what you think is right.

My mother is now in a long term care facility with lovely staff and lots to do. She has the opportunity to get to assisted living if she can get strong enough (motivation hopefully, to keep up with her physical therapy!). I get over there 2 times per week if I am lucky. She feels neglected. I try not to let it drive me nuts....Even as she was a busy single mom herself and had cared for her own aging monther once, she can't seem to understand that I have a job, a child, her home to get rented so she can afford the LTC, and my own health to take care of. Just keep telling yourself...all you can do is all you can do. And know that so many can relate!!!
L.

Here is a quick answer because I have my two grandhchildren here for a week too. BUT..I took MY Mother in 5 yrs ago. She always is unhappy and refuses to go to the Senior center even though I go and take line dance lessons. Mental illness does not go away just because people get old. My mother has always been this way ....and wants constant attention and tend to be very selfish and wants to control everybody. . I have tried to help her make friends but she will not respond to any efforts I have tried. I have decided all I can do is set the example but I can not control others . If they choose to be miserable then they will will continue to have a sad life. I know she is happier living here because I make my world full of happiness and it has to affect all around me....but she would never admit it. My DAD had an awful life catering to her and he knew she had issues so asked me to take care of her when he died. I am honoring my promise but it is difficult every day. I have no living siblings and even my children have said they would not do all I do for Mom as they remember her as a mean spirited person. I just smile and say I have the temperament to rise above it..and THANK THE LORD ..I do ! Good Luck !

Take her to a senior center, or better yet get back into church where she'll meet available old men hopefully.

Let's just suppose that you invite her to live with you. You know your mother and I don't. Which of these things is most apt to happen:
1. She is happy, content, and appreciative. She is a pleasure to have aound most of the time. She takes responsibility for her own activities.
2. She expects you to wait on her, include her in all your plans, and arrange a social life for her.
3. She constantly complains that her other children don't visit enough, that you do not invite them often enough, and that it is your fault she doesn't have interesting things to do.
What was she like before she lost her mate? How recently was she widowed? Is she from a background where matchmaking was considered a family responsibility? How old is she? Is she in good health? Is this just a phase she is going through as she adjusts to her retirement community, or is this more likely to be long-term?

She may want to take you on a guilt trip, but you don't really have to go, you know. :) You might try, "I'm sorry you feel that way Mom. I don't see it that way. I guess we'll just have to disagree on that. And speaking of disagreements, have you been following what is going on in the city council? (or a favorite soap opera, or any other chage of topics). I'll bet it doesn't do much good to explain and defend yourself and the other kids.

You are definitely not alone.

Minding our Elders, Thanks for the words of encouragement. I didn't mention before that my mother lives in a retirement community where there are activities for her to participate in and plenty of people around to talk to. She still complains that she is lonely and says that we (her children) do not "do right by her." She thinks that one of us should either let her move in with us and wants one of us to introduce her to someone, which is not an easy task as there are far more women her age than men. She says that she is lonely, but what she really is missing is a mate. Therefore, she is unhappy and lays a guilt trip on me almost every time I call her, to the point where it is nearly impossible to enjoy a telephone conversation with her or to enjoy spending time with her, as she rarely has anything positive to say. She participates in a minimum of the activities available at the retirement community and refuses to try anything new to broaden her horizons and circle of friends. If she thinks she can only be happy with family, then therefore it is her family's fault for depriving her of our presence and, thus, her happiness. Thanks for the suggestions and for listening. It's nice just to know I'm not alone.

It's likely that with your mother it will never be enough. So, please don't let her guilt-trip you. There's no average. It depends on needs, ability of family members to visit, and other issues. If she really needs help, in-home help could be hired. My guess is that she's lonely and could benefit from either in-home companions or assisted living, where she would have a social life. However, some people will still insist only their family can take care of them. Many of them aware that this is control, but do it anyway. It's up to you to set limits, let go of the guilt, and then find her the help she really needs. Balance is hard to find, but please work on it for everyone's sake.
Take care,
Carol