The POA took a salary. When will it stop?

You hire a lawyer and petition for a Guardian. The judge will not appoint any of you, since there is no agreement. An independent, paid Guardian will be appointed by the court.. No other way.

S has no obligation to report on the finances to any of you. In fact, she has a responsibility to respect Mother's right to confidentiality. Many POA do share at least the general outlines of what is going on with their siblings, but they are not required to.

Do you have any evidence at all that something is amiss. besides S not revealing what is happening with the finances? Is she living way beyond her means, for example? Is the salary she is taking way out of proportion to the tasks being performed?

S could easily put your minds at rest by providing some high-level overview of the finances, unless Mother is telling her not to. That she chooses not to may mean she is a control freak or loves the feeling of being in charge. Those attitudes don't win friends and influence family, but they are not illegal.

Using the funds however S sees fit is exactly what her appointment as POA entitles her to do AS LONG AS IT IS IN YOUR MOTHER'S BEST INTEREST. She does not need to consult with the beneficiaries of the will. She only has to do her best to act reasonably and on Mother's behalf. It is NOT your inheritance until your mother dies, remember.

Not your money. You have no legal say in how it is being managed, EXCEPT if it is being deliberately mismanaged and in effect stolen. Then it is a legal, criminal matter. But you'd better have better evidence than you've presented here before going to the authorities.

Sorry, but no - you don't have a legal right to know what your sister has been doing unless that is a provision spelled out in the original POA agreement. From what my mothers attorney told me - I am DPOA and executor of her will - upon your mothers death and the executor takes over (is that your oldest sister as well) upon the closing of the estate and when you receive your inheritance, you will then receive a statement of assests - where the money came from and how your portion was determined, in accordance to the will. How are you approaching your sister when asking about current financial matters? She is bound to feel defensive if approached in an accusatory fashion. Are you and your sisters helping out with looking after your mom? It is also natural for her to feel aggravated if she's been doing the majority of the work and then you and your sister question the manner in which she's been doing it. While I don't agree with taking a salary perhaps that was something agreed upon between her and your mom? Personally I try to be as transparent as possible and keep a paper trail when spending my mothers money - and all my brothers have to do is ask if they'd like to know/see something. BUT they sure as he•l better ask in a civil manner.

"She feels that we care more about the money than about my mom which is ludicrous."

It does seem that way, from your post. The focus is on finding out what S is doing, not on your mother's welfare.

"S" is probably being responsible, but don't we have a right to know what is going on since we are beneficiaries of the estate?"

If she "probably" is, why are you concerned? What evidence do you have that she's not being responsible?

As beneficiaries of your mother's estate, you don't have any rights on that level until your mother dies. At this point it's really none of your business.

As to the two sisters not having been consulted as to the salary, why should you have been? It's your mother's money, not yours. S is responsible to your mother, not to you and your siblings.

But if you're really interested in not only what you'll be getting but how your mother's health is, why don't the 3 of you contact S and ask what you can do to help her care for your mother? Has that ever been done? Try a conciliatory approach and offer to help.

Frankly, if I were in S's situation, I would resent someone who's not helping wanting to know how I was handling mother's funds and assets.

Frankly, even with a "sizable estate" paying the nursing home will probably use up all the money. You say she has been ill for almost 6 years and it doesn't sound as though she is close to dying any time soon... just do the math.

Alarmed, you mentioned your Mom has a sizable estate, that in itself can quickly create a part-time job or full-time job at the start trying to gather all the finance paperwork and putting it all in order.

Dealing with the payments for the nursing home... making sure the secondary health insurance payments are up-to-date, paying co-pays, yada, yada, yada.... size estate could also mean a lot of portfolio dealings with an accountant and stock broker. Reconciling the check book(s) and money markets. Or it could be like my Dad who has his stocks scattered all over instead of with one broker, and bank accounts with about 3 different banks. I hate balancing a checkbook, imagine dealing with 3 :P

Even putting together a finance report can be very time consuming, maybe your Mom's accountant can put something together for you and your sister, but there will be a cost for that service.

I wanted to add to my comments what freqflyer brought up. My mother is also in a NH with 24/7 care, she also has a very healthy chuck of change to look after. When I first started in this role I was shocked to see how far my dad had let the "paperwork" slide. It took the good part of a year to find accounts, purge old stuff, and don't even get me started on doing their taxes that year! Like ffs dad my parents had stuff spread over several banks and brokers - over a dozen! After a lot of work I have things running smoothly - for the most part as it seems something is always coming up. Tax season is always a pain even with an accountant doing the heavy lifting. Then there is dealing with the doctor appointments, crisis' of either the medical or behavioral variety - hospital and rehab stays, meetings with NH administration. Doing moms shopping for things the NH doesn't provide. Tasks helping mom - addressing Christmas cards come to mind along with the Christmas present shopping - birthday gifts for family members "from mom". Regular 3x weekly visits that usually run 2 - 3 hours. The never ending phone calls and calling - I already have four to make first thing on Monday. Calls to update brothers, to Visa co. to find out about the mystery charge, more doctors and PT, moms well meaning friends who want updates but won't visit. Then of course moms calls to me that come anytime of the day or night - sometimes the call is a raging rant other times she wants to know if it's 3:00 am or pm. The last weekend of the month requires 4 -6 hours to reconcile accounts, balance checkbook(s) and file paperwork. I also spend time each week reading and researching for ways to help and better deal with mom. Did I mention the phone calls, lol?!!! I counted once and I went 47 straight days when I had at least one call regarding mom each day. If the emotional toll involved in doing all this for ones own parent could be measured that would certainly count as a "job requirment". im sure I could go on...
But Alarmed - just because your mother does not live with your sister do not assume for one minute that being her POA is easy! I have a saying that each of my brothers have heard: if you don't help, you don't get to critize

Oops! Accidentally posted while I was trying to correct my spelling! That last word is criticize. Now that's just embarrassing!

Hello: I can relate to both sides of the story here. Everyone seems to assume that the person who posted the question is not doing anything to help. May or may not be true. If there was a court appointed professional to look after moms finances and care, you can be certain they would, at the very least, charge an allowed hourly rate, which they would be required to report and pay taxes on. The poster (cannot find her name) may have her own family to care for right now, and may have the good sense to realize that they do come before mom as mom is in a safe place. I have not asked the court yet for payments, but have decided in 2016, after 2 years of guardian and trustee and POA, I am going to at the very least track time spent on these duties. While I think the monetary value would be minuscule, I also want to make sure our mom has enough money for quality care wherever she goes.

Alarmed - as the wife of someone with POA I have watched as my husband works tirelessly to undo all the damage his parents did when they became unable to manage their own affairs but pretended like everything was fine and under control.

It was anything but fine or under control! Who had to drop everything and rescue his parents from ruin? My husband. I could go on and on about all the work but I won't because you can ask your sister. And lest you believe that your sister found a tidy, organized filing cabinet with everything she would need to handle your mother's affairs all color-coded and labeled, let me disabuse you of that fantasy right now. Like my husband, your sister probably found a hot mess that she had to organize before being able to prioritize the work. And guess what, Alarmed, problems beget baby problems that spring up all over the place. Like feral cats or bunnies, problems breed.

Forgive me when I say that your post sounded to me like you were interested more in your mother's estate than either her or your sister's well-being. Do you think it's fun to be POA? I suggest you ask your sister what a day for her is like and perhaps then you will empathize with the toll it must be taking on her. Is your sister married? If she is, then it's also taking a toll on her spouse. Does she have kids? Ditto. It's just money, it's not your money, and it's none of your business if your sister takes a small stipend. Your sister's time and energy are worth more than money so I suggest you tread lightly on what is a very sensitive and emotionally-charged subject.

I happen to be one of the sisters in the original post. Although we thank you all for your responses, many of them are not on target. It is wrong to assume that after almost 6 full years that the other 3 sisters have done little to help. That, of course, in this case is foolish and presumptuous. Our mother's welfare has been at the top of our minds of utmost importance & has been that way since day 1. However, being that a few of us live literally on the other side of the country, we have helped in many, many ways that involve being there & not being there in person. We have also come to realize that our sister (the POA) has done several things "for herself" and her family over the years that when asked about, she has totally ignored, even sending our mother's attorney (a personal friend of this sister) for us to "back away" and stop questioning her. The more she is secretive, the more we want to know more information. It's human nature. She has taken and used our mother's car, for instance for 5 full years without any loans to pay. The other 3 sisters are all hurting financially and she is in best financial shape. Why should she benefit from 5 years of no car payments as well as a HUGE monthly salary that her sisters allowed her to take to begin with. She is taking advantage of the situation by not only using the car year after year, but also continuing to take a monthly salary that has not been even allowed to have a start & end date. She is also not at all being 'transparent'. We have three first cousins who all worked so hard together to decide everything together when their parents were ill and our sister has not only not shared with us, she has actually taken things without our knowledge as well. For instance, the car. Since our mother's stroke, one of the very first sentences I said at the time was: "Lett's make sure to split everything evenly 4 ways so that there would never be hard feelings. Something our mother used to NOT do. Our mother gave to each child based on perceived need and that created a lot of hurt feelings to this day. By our sister not sharing information with us, we feel as if she wants to share in every other aspect of our mother's care and get input, EXCEPT when it comes to finances. We smell a rat. Simple as that. All 4 sisters have had incredible difficult periods in their lives and unfortunately this is what our sister (the POA) has to contend with in her life, but we've all tried to help out as best we could for years. Now it's gotten to the point where we no longer speak because she picks & chooses what to share. We have absolutely no way of trusting her at this point. We also have tons of friends that do this for their parents for NO monetary gain because that's what family does. Our mother's POA never specified she get paid. It was the sisters who agreed to it after she complained as to how unfair it was. Now we have no way of knowing what she has taken when and for how much. By the way, her kids are all grown up and out of the house. Just sayin'. By the way, some of the posts have been helpful but many have been accusatory. Not necessary to be mean, especially since you don't know the details. Our mother, by the way, was extremely organized, down to the littlest detail. It was all spelled out for our sister and she had very little to do to get our mother's affairs in order. So I suggest YOU tread lightly. Thank you.

I was POA for my dad but he got his grandson to move in with him to help take care of him; I got the VA A&A for salary for him but I've just found checks he was either writing or having dad write to him in addition to that - having said that, dad didn't really know he was getting it, but grandson did - since he didn't think that was enough to cover his expenses even though he wasn't having any household expense by living with dad, which was an additional reason dad wanted him to move in with him, to help him out by him not having to have any household expense since he felt he was going through a difficult period in his life, after the economic crash we "supposedly" had; I say that because I just talked to somebody this week who didn't know what I was talking about when I would mention that, said it didn't affect him, so...., then the month dad died, or I guess maybe the next one, when that check was no longer coming in, I wiped out dad's checking account, which only had about a month's worth of money in it to give to him to help him out further, then also gave him the VA death benefit dad got the next month to give him some more help until he could get a job, then he had a girlfriend who was supposed to be getting a settlement from a wreck and they were then going to move out of dad's house but they still haven't so...they've still been getting the benefit of a free place to live and they didn't even tell me they got the settlement; I learned that from his ex-wife from their daughter, who knew or could tell by the new vehicles in the driveway and there now is a new garage door on the house and possibly a new roof but also ex-wife demanded some of the money....wasn't able to keep that job because of his migraines but thought had gone to work doing something else, but have just now been told he's had another job since September only after being told he'd interviewed for another one so....does your sister have another source of income for when all of this is over?

Alarmedtoo - perhaps if your sister had stated her question in the manner you just did she would have received different replies. However - she poised her question as whether or not she had a right to be informed as to the decisions your sister makes as POA for your mother. The answer remains the same. No, she - and you don't. Get an attorney if you feel you have cause and evidence to challenge your oldest sister and have her removed. Decide which one of the remaining three of you will take over the often thankless job of POA should you succeed. Btw - when presenting your case I'd avoid statements like "don't we have the right to know what's going on since we are beneficiaries of the estate"? It just doesn't sound good.

Alarm and Alarmtoo, curious do either of you want the job of Power of Attorney? I wouldn't be surprised if the sibling who is current the POA would be more than happy to hand over ALL the work to either one of you in a heart beat.

Alarmed, too: I see your points. However, they WERE NOT included in your sister's original posts. We're not clairvoyant; we don't have Superman vision, so we respond based on the information provided us.

It's unfortunate that more guidelines, oversight, or even a contract wasn't established with your POA sister before the situation reached the level it has now.

freqflyer: We both have asked several times and were willing to take our mother to a nursing home closer to where each of us lives. Our sister, the POA would NEVER relinquish control. The original question of the POA taking a salary actually takes a back seat to her need for control and her insistence that things are all done her way, which as the POA, is fine with us, believe it or not! What is not fine with us is that she feels she doesn't have to answer any question we ask of her, she feels as if she does not have to share what she does each month with the expenses (even if that means that she has or hasn't dipped into the funds, we'll never know because she doesn't share anything. Some of you have said that the POA does't need to share a thing. How does anyone that is a POA get away with not having anyone looking over their shoulders and having complete freedom with our mother's funds to do whatever she wants to do with no one to answer to or checking over her records? Plus taking and using our mother's car for 5 years, loan payment free? And taking a HUGE monthly salary and not willing to discuss with anyone a legitimate start date, end date: no guidelines whatsoever? Granted, she doesn't want to discuss anything while our mother is alive, but has not said one word to us. She just sends her "big bad lawyer" to stop us from asking anything. She has all the control. I can understand why it works that way if she is the POA. But she says n-o-t-h-i-n-g. For five years none of this was even an issue. It became an issue one year ago when we were visiting and noticed her using our mother's car and quite frankly we were a bit shocked she never said a word to us about it, no "hey this is what I'm doing", no nothing. We feel used, abused, entitled to some sort of discussion, but yet she keeps silent. As a result, this has hurt our sisterly communication from the standpoint that she has complete control over every aspect of our mother's care, finances, car, home valuables, etc. and choosing to remain completely silent. As I said earlier in my first post, we have close cousins that all went through the same issues with their parents and came away totally calm, peaceful, on the same page and maturely discussed each matter between the three of them and then came to decisions. We are angry that she is not at all transparent and could be hiding many things from us. We both feel very alone in this struggle with her. She of course feels that why should she say anything to us: she's driving around a car payment free plus earning a HUGE monthly salary. She knows that if she falls into a discussion with us, maybe she'd have to give up some of the $$ that she has been used to taking all these years. :( No, we have no way of knowing how much she's been taking as a salary or even for how long. She won't discuss any of it.
By-the-way: Our mother never put a salary into the POA form she signed. It was us sisters that agreed to a salary and we believe our sister is abusing that now. In addition, our mother's stroke was massive. She has not been able to talk or walk since day 1 almost 6 years ago. She is rather lucid, however these are not discussions we would ever have with her. She definitely is missing some brain cells and this is not a subject we would ever discuss in front of her.
If any of you have any insight for us that would be helpful, and not criticizing, we would most welcome that information. Thank you.

How is that that you "have no way of knowing how much she's been taking as a salary or even for how long", yet you've stated twice in your last post that she's
"earning a HUGE monthly salary".

You also wrote that it became an issue a year ago, but apparently wasn't for the first 4 years of the arrangement.

Without getting into more of what I see going on and being accused of criticism, rather than help, I would suggest that you get your own "big bad lawyer", as I think there are issues in this situation that mitigate against a resolution between your sisters and the one who is proxy under the POA.

BTW, I question the accuracy of this interpretation:

"We both have asked several times and were willing to take our mother to a nursing home closer to where each of us lives. Our sister, the POA would NEVER relinquish control. "

A DPOA doesn't normally address medical control. That would be in an Advanced Directive or Living Will.

You admit that these issues weren't a concern until last year.

The post starts with "salary was never specified in the documents my mom prepared before her stroke". Does the POA document state that a reasonable amount for salary is contained withing the POA? I hate the term reasonable as it leaves so much to interpretation. But, consider this. My mom was appointed a guardian and conservator because of family conflict and elusive practices by DPOA. What did we all get? Bills to audit household spending by the conservator that charged $125.00 an hour, a guardian that charged $100.00 an hour, to say nothing of attorney's fees. Attorney for the conservator, attorney for the guardian, attorney for the DPOA, all of which were paid by my mom. Very expensive and what was revealed? Nothing other than nothing funny was going on with the household money. Conservator did not even report on the full financials as ordered by the court. Why? Because all thought they would find something funny with the household money, it was not to be found.

So tread carefully. Reasonable, if sister spends time on Mom's financial affairs could be charged and justified at the rate of $125.00 an hour quite easily. Then how many hours? Salary implies 40 hours a week, is that what it actually is? Hopefully, sis is being reasonable or even generous with her time.

Thanks for your honest answers. We do not have the funds to hire our own attorney, however we have a friend who is a lawyer and spent many years as a mediator who is willing to do the work pro-bono because he doesn't need the $$ and finds this type of challenge interesting, I guess. He know the general issues and will get a better handle of the situation this coming week.

gardenartist: I know what salary she began with and negotiated for with me. I have no way of knowing what she took, for how long and what amount. What does this mean....."you admit that these issues weren't a concern until last year". It sounds like you're grilling me like an attorney would. What do you not understand? We live on the other side of the country. We do not see our sister on a regular basis and have no idea what car she drives until we are down there. Our mother has everything set up: my sister is involved in every medical decision that does not fall under the living will or advanced directive since our mother is in a nursing home, alive, yet unable to speak or walk. She has my sister, the POA to advocate everything for her.
gladimhere: again someone is telling us to tread carefully. We are just looking for a sign that our sister (POA) is alive! She says nothing to us. No communication whatsoever. So naturally our communication to her has also stopped. We both find it sad that she not only doesn't say a word to us, but that our sisterly bond has been permanently broken over these issues because of her unwillingness to even acknowledge any of our questions or concerns. There is no discussion, period! But she doesn't even say that there's no discussion! She just stays silent.

Ooooooh I have to tread very carefully here because I am not sure where your Mum is actually - is she still living with sibling because you talk of moving her to a nursing home near you but does that mean she is in a nursing home now?

There are two types of POA Financial and health for starters. One has to assume that you contracted the POA a payment in some way - she must have some form of contract or she is taking money unlawfully. She MUST use the money in her mothers best interest too. A report to APS that you felt your sibling was spending money illegally would have APS looking into the matter so her big bad lawyer would have no say in it.

We have no picture to build here for any of us to offer a valuable comment on. Neither are we lawyers. Think of us more as people sat round a table having coffee.

As such we will have opinions. I am a POA and the terms of that POA are very clearly set out especially as to what I can (and cannot) spend money on. I can spend it on a car as long as I use it for Mum when I need to (I can also use it for other journeys too but in fairness if I do go out alone it is to buy things for Mum so that counts as though she were in the car with me). The only thing I have to pay for would be gas. As it happens I own a car but that is neither here nor there

There are two time periods here too - your mum had a stroke 6 years ago yet the car was used loan free for 5 years, and you only became concerned a year ago. Did your sister look after your mum for a period of time or is she still looking after her

If she is in care then despite your thoughts on it there will be bills to be paid visits to monitor that the money she spends on the care is be used properly and that your mother is well cared for. So she needs a car for that and why not use your mother's - she is using it in your mother's best interest, at a push even visits to your Mum which will be more often I suspect than you visit would allow her to use the car loan free.

If your mother is at home then please do not assume your sister will care for free either - she would be living on thin air if she did and if she wasn't financially sound then she would be destitute after 6 years - trust me I know this only too well. She will also need the car to get your Mum to doc appointments so why should she pay towards it.

She has a right to respite and for your Mum to pay for that and that doesn't come cheap let me tell you - it can run at twice the price of general care and that's only if your Mum WILL go if not it has to be in house care which at 168hours a week would be pretty hefty fees.

Like I said a lot of things we don't know so many of these comments may offend but your sister is there..... she is either caring or ensuring mother is cared for and depending on the time scales the costs of care will be prohibitive and there will be a massive spend if she is in a care facility depending on the level of care.

You see agreeing everything will be split 4 ways means splitting everything 4 ways and IF your sister has been doing the one on one care then it hasn't been split has it? I appreciate you can't split the care due to the distance factor but that being so you have to take it into account.

OK CROSS OVER IN RESPONSES SCRAP THE BITS THAT ARENT RELEVANT

Alarmed and Alarmedtoo, the answer to your question about whether your POA sister has to keep you informed about your mother's finances is NO. That is the law. Who inherits under Mom's will has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Some families are like your cousins' family. They work together and everybody knows everything. Some are like yours where the POA does not disclose information. Sometimes that is for good reason and sometimes it is suspicious.

Sometimes the non-POA siblings avoid any effort at helping. Sometimes they are very actively involved. Sometimes a non-POA sibling is the full-time caregiver. None of that matters regarding what the POA must disclose.

(If the POA were instead a guardian, there would be reporting requirements, but they would not necessarily be about reporting to the family, but to the court.)

The answer to whether POA HAS to share information within family is simply and definitely NO -- unless the POA document specifies otherwise. That may not seem prudent or fair or in the principal's best interest, but it is nonetheless true.

You seem ticked off that POA has had use of a car and you haven't. Do you know how she obtained that use? It is not illegal for an elderly person to give gifts to one of her children. Do you think this was coerced from her? Do you want mommy to give you a car, also? (When she deemed it no longer safe for her to drive, my aunt gave her car to her most needy son. Other family members objected on the grounds that it was a valuable vintage car that could be restored. All this brother was going to do with it was drive it. Aunt decided on the needy son anyway, figuring if one of the solvent kids wanted it they could buy it from him, restore it, and make a profit. No one did. I'm just pointing out that old folks make their decisions for lots of reasons.)

What you have here does sound like a potential legal issue. If you suspect that POA is doing things that are not in your mother's best interest, you need to take legal steps. I am so glad you have a friend who will look into this for you.

It would be wonderful if you would report back to us how this all works out.

I was offered a salary as POA. I wish I would have agreed at this point, because I am the only child left....and in the end...we will have exhausted all my parents investments just caring for the two of them, and my inheritance will be nil.....yet I've so far spent almost 4 years of agony handling all this....as others have described above. BUT...all that said.....if there are concerns that the POA is handling finances properly, other siblings ought to be able to go to the attorney who set up the POA and ask for feedback. Of course, the first thing should be a formal written request from the sibling that has POA, as to the status of the finances and payment etc. An elder care attorney should be able to at least advise you. As to when would the payment end...without any revisions to the original agreement, the payment would end when the POA ends...which is at the moment of death. The one with POA will continue to pay bills and handle the estate once death occurs, but only as a family member....not allowed to put POA after their signature any longer, since one cannot have any 'power' over a person who is dead. I just went through this change when my Dad died last August.....

I just want to be sure I'm understanding - your sister has been using the car for five years, you only became aware of it a year ago when you saw her using the car when you were back on a visit - does that mean it had been four years since you and your other sisters had been to see your mom?

Your sister's use of the car seems to have triggered your concerns. I'm not sure why that's so. Was it the straw that broke the camel's back?

Maybe it would have been better for your sister, as POA, to have sold the car and banked the proceeds for your mother's care --- a few thousand dollars in the bank, plus the savings on insurance, maintenance, fuel costs and so on. (How much was/is the car worth?) But then your sister would (I think) have been entitled to reimbursement for the cost of operating her own car on visits to your mother, errands for your mother, etc., at the rate of (I think) 23 cents per mile (fuel plus maintenance, depreciation, etc.)

I gather that you had accepted her getting the salary until you learned that she was getting this additional perk. So ---- this is the key question --- how much is she getting in salary? Or, if you fear she's taking more than was agreed on, what did you originally agree to? If we knew what you agreed to, it would be easier to assess how worried you should be.

The reimbursement rate for using her car for mom's needs is actually around 50 cents a mile. I would think that is is cheaper for Mom to have sis using mom's car, buying gas, paying for maintenace and of course depreciation.

The POA ends at death. The executor starts sorting out estate after death. The executor may or may not be the same as the POA. Is sis also executor?

By chance, is there a trust? If so then there may be reporting requirements within it that would provide for disclosure to other members of the trust. Again, there may or may not be reporting requirements.

Our sister (the POA) took our mother's car. Our mother had a massive stroke and can no longer speak. She took the car and began using it over 5 years ago. We have gone to visit our mother numerous times since then. We noticed her car being used by our sister and questioned her at that time. She dismissed it and never answered us. At the time, we had major life crisis events going on in our own households, so we didn't really make an issue to her driving our mother's car except to question it when we got a very shaded repsonse. I think what bothers us the most is that she took the car at a time when her car came off lease and she took our mother's car knowing she could drive it around payment free. It bothers us because the three of us are in worse financial shape then she is in and she never discussed taking it. Meanwhile, if a standard car loan is $300-$400 per month then at the end of 5 years she has saved herself an extra $18-24,000. We don't think that's fair. No, I don't want mommy to get me a car too. You missed the point and I don't appreciate the sarcasm. I really believe that if the three of us were better off financially, we would leave the car issue alone. It's become worse since she refuses to discuss anything with us. We've asked the POA for financials and she gives us the bare minimum. The elder attorney is her friend and it now appears as if she has instructed him not to respond to us. This is how she is. The salary that she negotiated with me back at the beginning was NEVER put in writing. There is no beginning date, no end date, no attorney looking over it, nothing. We have tried to backtrack and she is completely uncooperative. This is our first and hopefully only time we will ever be involved in this sort of struggle. Our father is no longer living and none of us had any experience in dealing with POA's, attorneys, etc. The amount of the salary should not matter. It's the principal of it being in writing, which it's not. Okay, so she doesn't have to disclose financials. So then, we don't have to pay her a salary either. She probably knows this and will not discuss anything. To me this is what we need the mediator for. It would have been so much easier for her to just share & discuss and try to come to a resolution between the sisters. But that choice is not even an option. Yes: If the POA sold the car and banked the proceeds for our mother's care, that would have been fantastic.

GladI'm here: She is NOT using the car only for our mother's needs. She is using it for her own needs and then uses it also to visit our mother, who is in a nursing home permanently.

It's good that you, your sisters and the POA have got their attorneys/mediators involved. Maybe they can clarify issues and eliminate emotions from the discussion.

That being said, I want to make a couple of observations:

You and your other non-POA sisters are not "paying her a salary." Your mother is paying the salary. You can't stop your sister's salary just because she doesn't share financials with you, which is her right as POA, or because she uses your mother's car.

The amount of her agreed-upon salary is totally relevant. Forget about whether papers were signed, etc. The amount IS the issue. If you all agreed on, say, $2,000 or $3,000 a month, I'd say your objection to her use of the car, and your desire to see financials, are understandable. After all, all of you want to make sure your mother's assets provide for her care for her lifetime.

But if you agreed on, say, $300 or $500 or even more a month five years ago, I would say that your mother is getting off very inexpensively, even if you think that the use of the car is worth a couple of hundred bucks a month. So the original amount is entirely relevant.

What ISN'T relevant is that three of you have car payments and the POA sister doesn't. It boggles my mind that you see that as her taking advantage of you. Maybe the use of the car is a fair way to pay part of her salary and maybe it isn't --- we can't know, without knowing what her salary is --- but it isn't taking anything away from the rest of you. If it had been sold, the money would have gone into your mother's bank account for her care; it would not have been divided among you sisters.

I said I shouldn't make assumptions, but now I'm doing it, I guess. I really haven't read anything in your posts that shows you're worried about your mother's financial position and her ability to afford long-term care. It's all about whether one of the four of you is getting something the others are not getting.

Sorry if I'm being unfair. I realize that we don't always express ourselves clearly when we're very unhappy. But ... darn it, when I read this thread it seems to me as if your mother is the forgotten woman in all this.

Thank you. I'm going to stop posting here because there really is no way to describe 6 years of our mother's care plus the stress of dealing with our sister (the POA) on some random board. It is quite involved. Our mother's long term care is already taken care of. It isn't fair to post on a board and get answers that are objective without telling pages of stories. So I'll leave it at that and thank you all for your input. I've already stated that if the car were sold and the money banked to use for our mother's care would have been fabulous. If my sister (the original poster) wants to come on and talk to you all, well she can do whatever she wants. But I'm done. Thanks all and have a good day.