Spouse wants to move abroad again, despite father with severe Parkinson's. Should I leave my parents or should I separate?

This was posted over 6 months ago, and has been dead for some time. Lots of information was provided, lots of comments given. I’m reporting the last post, as the thread should be closed.

This post is missing a lot of background information. For example, why does she want to move abroad? A promotion, new job or just for an adventure? All of which are valid reasons to move but some could be postponed and other couldn't.

You say you want to stay with your wife so personally, I would move. If the move can be postponed you could negotiate and move in 1,2 or more years. In that time you could help care for your parents. However, your parents will need increasing care and at some point they will need professional help. Especially as you have young kids who will need you involved in their lives.

I have lived in different countries and it was the best experience I have ever had. Even while my mother needed care, I traveled and lived abroad as it was a life goal of mine. When my mother started to need even more care, my parents encouraged me to continue to follow my dreams as they could get support elsewhere but I might not have another chance to live the life of my dreams.

In some government jobs, taking an assignment overseas leads to increased pay and better retirement. That also can have a good family support system with the family that comes with you.

I would recommend going with your wife. I know this is difficult. You love her and your children. You love your parents. But the key thing is that your parents are in the twilight of their lives and you are in the midst of yours. You can’t stop your time nor they theirs. Your children are only young once. Look to your long term future.

Care can be arranged for your parents. Your obligation is to your wife and children.

Your spouse can’t just take your children oversees to live without your consent or a court order. Even if your father didn’t have Parkinson’s, you also get a choice as to where you live. I would tell her that you are not moving oversees while your father is still alive but if she wants to she is free to go but you will fight her in court for custody of the kids.

Before my mother's current sharp decline in her Parkinson's she told me... if I need to travel abroad to get a promotion or whatever for my own development...that I should go for it, and not stay here just on her account.

Even my Dad told me the same thing. Even up to last week my Dad still encourages me to get a 2nd degree and to not delay my career on his account.

It was one of the most painful conversations we have had.

But it is good advice. It gave me some sort of closure. Realistically as you are making yourself, there may be a time when you may have to travel. None of us want to be overseas when our parents die....but you can't stall your life and not go for your dreams until your parents have died...either.

Please do not let disease in your parents, spoil your marriage.

Your parents know that you love them. And as long as you make sure that you do everything you can for them, before you travel... that's the most you can do.

This is coming from someone who is the last in my family. I know now that my Mom probably will not see me get married, or see grandkids from me. By the time that happens...either she won't understand...or she will be gone.

Good luck.

As others have said: don’t give your wife permission to take your children out of the country. Don’t let them leave even “for a quick vacation” or to “visit family.”

Lose your children’s passports right away.

Hire a lawyer to advise you on how to keep your children.

I was a sailor for twenty years. I’ve seen that situation more times than I can remember. If your kids go out of country you’ll be lucky to ever see them again. At best your ex-wife will rent you access to your children.

Everyonids e,

OP has not elaborated further on his situation. We do not know whether OP's intentions are to be with his dad, putting the care on the mom, or worse yet trying to get the kids when they're a bit older to "help" with dad's diapers. We don't know if dad was nasty to the DIL to begin with, but we know that does exacerbate with many elders, dementia or not.

It could be just as true that this husband is actually trying to move his dad in. Which would trigger a very fast split-up with me personally if SO ever tried to do this. If he moved into their house, it would be sayonara, and I've been very clear about that boundary. If there was such an agreement that he not do this, and now he's trying to, then I wouldn't really blame her for wanting to move the fam to Thailand. The Thailand part with the kids is unrealistic, but OP needs to realize that if he broached the marriage agreement by putting Father First, that a split up could happen without her being the bad guy.
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Which is why I suggested to OP that she should be allowed to move for her job anywhere in the lower 48. That would mean moving him. And if the OP did choose to spend his non-custody days at his father's bedside with Southwest tickets, super his decision.

But we don't know. He hasn't come back to tell us.

Just my opinion, but it sounds like a one-sided marriage with you doing all the compromising and giving. If your spouse is like this on such an important issue now, do you really think they wouldn't be unaccommodating as other issues arise? I think the fact that you are asking "should I move or should I separate" indicates what you know you need to do - leave a bad marriage. Sounds as if she might do the same to you anyway and you don't want to be blindsided by false hope, do you?

If she's the type that would not allow you to see your children if you separated, that is a very bad sign in many ways. If they are both your children, perhaps a custody arrangement can be made. It happens all the time. I can also say from experience as the child, a parent staying in a bad marriage only damages children and teaches them the wrong messages.

Sorry to be harsh, but please think about YOUR sanity, your health (which will be affected eventually if you stay with someone who doesn't respect your wishes), your children's mental, physical and future health and experiences.

If she is not willing to delay moving until you feel comfortable, then that should tell you right there. Don't you deserve someone who respects your needs and wishes?

I'm writing this as someone who ignored the advice I just gave you and only learned all this in retrospect after all the damage is done. Wishing you all the best.

I experienced the same situation. My mother's health declined and my then husband didn't want me to care for her and gave me a hard time when I would go care for her. I was also raising my 11 yr. old niece. I followed my heart, divorced, moved with my mother and cared for her 3 years until she passed. It was the most gratifying time. I did what I knew was right. I knew that no one would care for her like I would. Other people will not give your father the personal care and attention he needs. He would be at their mercy. Caregiving is hard but rewarding. Your life will change in that your social life will deminish. My brother and I banned together rotating shifts caring for her and we got the help (aides) that I needed plus worked a full time job.

There are a wealth of organizations and support groups for you to get help and information.

I will say it was also a painful time as I had been married for 19yrs. I never regretted the choice I made. And my mother thanked me for being there with her. She was so happy and greatful and so was I. My mother was there for her children I wasn't going to abandon her.

You write that you don’t want your marriage to be ruined, but I wonder if you have considered that the way your wife treats you may be doing that.

All the forum participants who tell you to blindly follow your wife, simply because she is your wife, may not truly be considering your best interests.

In order for any relationship to work there has to be compromise. It sounds like you have given, but are getting none in return. If you divorce, she would not be able to take the kids out of the country unless she were awarded full custody.

Once your parents are gone, there is no getting them back. No amount of money or exquisite travel opportunities can replace them.

Nice women are a dime a dozen.

How will she treat you when you are the sick one? You should think about how you want to live the rest of your life.

Spouses and children come first. There are plenty of options for your Dad to get care.

If you choose to stay, are you going to be spending more time with the parents? Are you going to be helping with some caregiving? If yes, I would tell the spouse things have progressed more so than when you left the states before and what your plans are in regard to them by staying here now.

If she has a job now, making near to same as what she made abroad, the move is purely for the travel and not for the money. Can you live comfortably on what she makes now? Are you able to earn more here or abroad...or as a trailing spouse, does that mean your employment is not that important financially.

Where are her parents? If they got ill, would she participate more in their lives? If not, that's how her brain works. The parents aren't a priority. Some people are like that.

If it were me, I wouldn't be able to go while dad is even more on the decline. I would want to spend as much quality time as I could. If you left now, you may make a few visits back to see them, but that phone call that may come while you're abroad may mean you MIGHT be able to say goodbye, but you will have lost time with dad. All comes back to - can you live with that? I can't see that it would hurt to spend a few more years in the states and then return to the world travel

It strikes me that the writer has outlined that his wife wants to live farther away, but hasn't detailed exactly how close he's willing to be for his parents.

Proximity seems to be irrelevant to how much someone supports a parent. I know people who live a few miles away and do little to nothing, and others who live on the other side of the country who do a good job of supporting their family member.

Yet, my personal experience, closeness is EVERYTHING if you are a primary caregiver. By that I don't mean living in the same country, state, or city, but truly present on a daily basis with increasing time and energy commitments as your parents age. Are you really looking to take that kind of commitment on yourself?

There are dozens of ways to support aging parents. But, if you aren't willing to step up to the day-in, day-out, hands-on, fully responsible components of caregiving, you are using your father's illness as an excuse to separate from your wife.

It's time to think outside the box and solve the problems coming your father's way. That may or may not mean you living in the US.

I have a feeling there is a strong possibility that if you asked your sick father what you should do, he would want you to stay married and raise your children with your wife. I suspect he would be devastated to know that you are with him at the cost of your marriage and raising your children. That aside...
As parents, it is our responsibility to provide our children with roots and wings (roots = stability and care of their bodies, minds and spirits and wings=the ability to leave the nest and fly on their own). In our culture (the USA), parents accept and expect their children to leave the parental home, especially once their son or daughter marries and has children. I do not think it is fair of you to make yourself feel guilty over putting the needs of your marriage and children first.
You should absolutely use the time RIGHT NOW to have a deep conversation with your dad over anything in your relationship with him through the years that has disturbed or worried you. Do not put it off. This will help you have a clearer mind about any potential relocation with your family.
Keep in mind that you will be able to have contact and communicate with your father and those involved with his day-too-day care via visual and audio technology (not the best option but still a viable option). You and your spouse can also work out a budget where you could plan to visit your dad from abroad every three months or so.
You asked for opinions, so here is mine: I believe your primary responsibility now is to your young children and your spouse. I can foresee many serious traumatic situations for your two children if you should leave them to be with your father.

I would advise you to 1a) talk with your father as described above. 1b) immediately talk with your father's physicians about the prognosis for your father. Ask specific questions: How long is your dad expected to live? What will your father experience physically and cognitively during the last month of his life? Share this information with your spouse. If his life expectancy is less than three months, then it is reasonable for her to relocate AFTER your father passes on. If the prognosis is years away, then that is a totally different matter.
2) You and your wife need to consider the wisdom of traveling and relocating overseas during this COVID pandemic. Expectations are that the rest of the winter of 2021 into Spring 2022 are going to be brutal in terms of lives lost. Are these truly the circumstances to which you and your wife want to subject your children right now? On a very practical side, you and your family might not even be allowed to travel and relocate to another country. The regulations are changing constantly and at a moment's notice. Do you want to be "stuck" somewhere while you are halfway to you eventual location?
3) I also think you and your spouse need to be very frank with one another about the state of your marriage. What does it say if you both are willing to separate from one another both geographically and legally, regardless of your father's condition? Perhaps before any firm decisions are made, it would be helpful for the two of you to sit with a good counselor to discuss how you both feel about your union and being parents BEFORE your even discuss the various options.

I sincerely hope you are all able to work things out for the best of all who'll be impacted by this...but especially your children. I am concerned for them the most.

first my children would not be moving out of the Country and would tell the wife to stop thinking of herself. If you don't stay you will have guilt for the rest of your life believe me. I'm sorry but what a selfish person she is being.

When you got married you chose to link your life to that of your wife and move away from your childhood household. Thats what getting married does, your wife and family become and are your number one priority. If you wanted to make your parents your life then you shouldn't have got married. You are debating two young children versus two elderly parents, you chose to make those children they are your responsibility - your parents chose to make you, that makes you their responsibility not the other way round. I am sorry your wife is intransigent over this, as obviously it would be better if you were available to be called on, but maybe she isn't the carer kind and certainly not for people not related to her no matter how good they have been to her. What is her view on looking after her parents if the situation was that way round? You do not say how elderly your parents are, but there are facilities that can ensure they are safe and cared for, or if possible for them to be cared for in their home carers can come in as needed. You never get back time you lose with your children. Where do you feel your priorities lie? Talk to your parents about their needs, make sure they have the assistance they need and are safe and get on with your life. Unless you feel you made a mistake in your marriage you have far more years to be estranged from your children than you do from your parents being cared for by others. I know what it sounds like from what you have written, but you need to talk to your parents, hear what they think you should do and make your own decision on what you want life to be in 10 years.

We haven't heard back from this guy as to further details about why Wife feels this way, or exactly what his involvement with his parents is. If this had anything to do with parents moving in or living like next door, and increasingly he is tending to them and not the children, well perhaps that's a reasonable explanation.

Could your family and parents move together? I don't know anything about Thailand, but I know someone who moved to San Miguel de Allende in Mexico for inexpensive but high quality assisted living for her husband. She was very happy there.

Servants - I’ve been thinking about this since I posted this morning. Your wife is clearly a high income earner, and that usually means a high stress job. The marriages like this that I have known about (eg Margaret Thatcher and Denis) have always included some type of domestic help. You have been back in the USA since 2019. If your wife works like this, what sort of assistance does she get at home? Why does she want the lifestyle she had in Thailand?

Both men and women often have an unrealistic understanding about how much work, time and mental energy it takes to keep a household going in the way both would prefer. Women don’t value their own contribution enough, because it seems ‘normal’. Men ‘help’, but often not to the same ‘standard’, so wife does the job again. Husband complains that wife’s standards are unnecessarily high, and that none of it matters, but he still expects things to be pretty good. Wife says she does the lion’s share, and isn’t appreciated. Doing the lion’s share on top of a high stress job, seems like a very good reason to want to live where domestic help is easily found, afforded and acknowledged as perfectly normal.

OP, all we know about your wife and why she won’t compromise is your simple statement. There has to be a reason that you haven’t mentioned. Could the problem be solved in the USA?

Matneyg1: Imho, wherein lies the problem on this issue is the uncompromising 'behavior' of the wife as a marriage is all about compromise, not one half of the union calling the shots.

With 48 replies and no ideal solution, I’m sending some good energy your way.

I know a woman with a restless spirit. Chances are Thailand is the next stop but it won’t end there.

If you took the elderly Father out of this - the problem remains. One half of a couple want to reside in Thailand - other half in US. Maybe marriage counseling is the way to go?

"I don’t want to ruin my marriage over this but she will not compromise".

Marriage is full of compromises..

What is in Thailand that is so wonderful? & where will children attend school? Is wife from Thailand? If she wants to go there & you don’t want to go, she should go by herself. If your Father is getting worse, you will feel badly about going so far away. Wife seems to be running away from something instead of towards something. It seems confusing. Have you discussed with wife why she wants to go to Thailand? Lots of unanswered questions. I would also have consult with divorce attorney in USA 🇺🇸 You don’t want her to bring children to Thailand & then you’ll be stuck there indefinitely. Does she have a sneaky side? Hugs 🤗

I never told poster to get a divorce. I told him to find out what his legal rights are with his children since it involves 2 countries. He should be well informed of what she can and can't do with the kids, since she has given him ultimatums and wont compromise.(his words).
She using the kids as a bargaining chip. You don't do what I want, I'll take the kids. He should know his rights regardless of where they live and what they do.
She can't use the kids as a blackmail scheme whenever she wants.
He needs proper counciling of his rights as a parent even if he stays or moves.

Your marriage and children come first, always. There's no question about it.

However, if your wife files for divorce AFTER you get to Thailand, you'll be screwed. You likely won't be able to move the kids back to the US. And what about Thai Family Court? How does that work? Who gets the kids? Would you be unemployed, and relegated to visits every other weekend, receiving no child support, or worse, having to pay her child support?

I recommend having a real come-to-Jesus talk with yourself about that. And speak privately with a family law attorney with experience in international child custody matters. If you believe your wife will divorce you in Thailand, just beat her to it, and pull the plug and file first in the US. There's no way a US Family Court will let her move the kids abroad without your consent.

It’s sad to raise 2 children with the idea that parents aren’t important and immediate gratification is. She will be old someday and I hate to see how she could make life a living hell because she feels neglected by kids.
Go for some therapy. I’m glad she’s not my neighbor. Do I sense narcissism? How dare she use children as a pawn because she is unhappy.
Best of luck with your decision.

It sounds like you don’t have much of a marriage since she can’t understand why you don’t want to move. You do what is right for you because you don’t want to have to live with regrets. Personally I would leave her and file for divorce for she can’t take the children overseas.

What are you going to regret the most?

That your wife isn't willing to care about your parents' care is a problem for me. Especially, if she's not willing to compromise. Yikes! I'm so sorry for you and your children.

Maybe you can stay here in the states, with your young children so that they can know their grandparents before they pass. I can only imagine hearing your children say, "I never got to know my grandparents, because Mommy wanted to go abroad..."

Is that going to be okay with you? If you were your father/parents, what would you want? Do onto others as you would want done to you, PERIOD!

Is your wife willing to treat her parents the same way?

Regardless of wife & children, you will have to sleep with yourself.

See a therapist to help you make a decision that you will do your best not to regret.

I'm praying for you and others like you in the same position.

Seems like someone just put up this question to see the comments.

A couple of questions/thoughts,

Do you have siblings or other relatives to help with your dad?

Can you afford to periodically go back and forth to see your parents? Remember we are dealing with Covid and ever changing travel restrictions. You would not want to get stuck in Thailand If you are needed in the states.