What are the moral issues when spouses of Alzheimer's patients seek outside relationships?

Wow, my mind is going every which way after reading all this. First off, I am not going to sit in judgement of any actions, present or future. I've been the one judged too many times in my lifetime and every dang time, it has hurt me to the soul. I believe only God has the right to judge, thank you very much. I heard something not long ago and I'll paraphase. How do women and men differ when a spouse dies? The woman suffers alone and the man suffers with his new wife. Men and women are hardwired differently. And yes I know this spouse is still alive but for whatever reason, some people believe Alz or the like renders them gone. Who am I to judge how they come to that conclusion?Of course this doesn't apply to ALL. Everyone also has a right to believe in what's moral and immoral. Some don't believe in the Bible or God or an afterlife but that doesn't make them wrong. Personally, I don't believe I'd get into a deep new relationship under these circumstances mainly because I love my husband too much and wouldn't be looking but that's me and I'd let someone else make that decision if they thought differently. Also, I don't see how anyone can assume that just because 123Ann is asking this question that they're guilty of infidility over the years. That's assuming and it's not fair. I see both sides to this issue. IF 123Ann follows through, then they should realize that the kids/family might not go for it and shun him. I've been temporarily shunned too,although not for this situation, while everyone was sitting in judgement of my situation and they didn't know the whole truth, so once again I say don't judge others...EVER! I'd also like to say that even though my dad had Alz and rarely spoke the last few years before he died, I always felt I could "see" him locked up in there when I looked into his eyes. Call it a daughter's love and adoration but it was real to me. Just in case it's true with some Alz patients, that alone would prevent me from doing something I know that person wouldn't be happy with. Whatever choice 123Ann makes will have to be of their own choosing. I have opinions but no judgement because I don't live 123Ann's life.

I've been thinking about this question a lot today. Yes, 123Ann asked for the 'moral' and 'ethical' issues. However, I'm answering from the pov of someone who's been there in many ways. You care for your wife, you're taking care of her. It's not easy. My dad took care of my mom for 62 years and never strayed (as far as I know) however, as my mom got worse and worse physically and mentally, I prayed that my dad could find someone to find some happiness with because he so deserved it after 40 years of the illnesses and dementia of his wife. Unfortunately he passed away and took care of my mom until a week before he died when he couldn't anymore. I can't help thinking that he deserved some kind of happiness before he died. My mom is still alive and just as bitter now as she was before he died and now I think the same about me. I deserve some happiness in my life too. Yes marriage is a vow, for better for worse, etc. I'm married and I understand that commitment. However there is no way that I would want my husband to suffer through years of heartbreak because of my inability to be there with or for him. Everyone knows men are not as strong as women. Say what you will but it is true. I say, find happiness where you can. You are taking care of your wife and that was the promise. Honestly, you don't have much time left either (please don't be mad at that statement) and I cannot believe that God is out to punish people for taking care of their spouses. You want permission to be 'unfaithful'. I say give yourself permission to have some happiness in your life. Life is hard and short enough without so much guilt and fear of retaliation from God or people. Ultimately it's up to you and how you will feel about yourself. You don't love your wife any less.

The most difficult questions can only be answered from within. The morality we are taught is culturally based, and varies from land to land. No one individual or group has a monopoly on Truth. We must look to our heart for answers. My Truth says judge not. If you want forgiveness, be forgiving. Let love guide you. Blessings to you, for whatever path you take.

Whoa, people, there is an incredible amount of judgment going on here and an amazing amount of certainty. The surer we are, the more we should question our sureness. You may think you have a lock on what's right, what God thinks, or what a vow means or doesn't mean, but none of us does. One angle not considered here is, imagine this: suppose you knew you were going to become demented beyond reach of connection, and your spouse were going to spend years purely as a caregiver whom you didn't even recognize. Would you sentence him or her to doing that for you in a deeper hell of loneliness than necessary, or might you gratefully say to him or her, "Thank you for your faithful care and goodness to me in the years that I will be beyond your reach but in your care, please find the human connection I won't be able to give you any longer"? Just another angle......

Not that this will help 123Ann, but there are some who suggest that this issue be discussed with your spouse before anything like this happens (dementia, Alzheimers, stroke, closed head injury, brain damage from an accident). I know that I would want my spouse/life partner to find another fulfilling relationship if I developed Alzheimers, dementia, etc. but only once I was no longer able to consistently recognize them as my spouse. Also, as someone else has mentioned..., some people with dementia or Alzheimers that are placed in assisted living facilities or a nursing home go on to partner up in a romantic capacity with another resident/pt. even though they're still married. Are they committing "adultry" because they're still married? In the caregiver group I lead one such partner said "I'm glad my spouse found someone they can hold hands with and enjoy their company. They don't recognize me anymore, so it's nice to know their needs for love and affection are being met with someone." And no.....this person was not involved in a romantic relationship with anyone else.

All I can offer here is my personal opinion which is...over the years of being married, sharing life, raising children and dealing with the individual personality differences and emotional needs of each other...I would want a man who will be loyal to me to the end. Loyal means to me that we both are more than willing to make sacrifices for each other which IMO means we both have struggled thru the years with loneliness at some point because we are only human. It means to me that when we look in the mirror, we can say I have been loyal, done without some needs, I have integrity, credibility and my character stands on its own. Life is not meant to be all warm and fuzzy at all times, there are ebbs and flows where love is concerned. If He is willing to bail on me because His needs aren't being met during a period of time, then He is not loyal to me. Its just my opinion and what I would do and expect in return. I wish you luck on making your decision, peace and hugs to all!!

123Ann, first of all I'm so sorry about your wife having this terrible disease. I think I understand a little how lonely it must be, when the woman you fell in love with is no longer the woman you're taking care of. I myself have been married for 40 years now, and can only imagine how awful it would be to see the shell of a man that was once so strong and loving, disappearing into a man that has basically become a stranger. Having said that though, you know your wife better than anyone else, so you KNOW in your heart what she would say if the roles were reversed. If it were you who were no longer the man she married, would she find someone else while you were still drawing breath, or would she stick with you physically and emotionally till the end? As far as the morality of it, that was asked and answered when you and your wife gave your wedding vows, and made a promise before God and your family and friends. Get yourself a hobby or a pet or a hobby with a pet, but don't do something that you're going to regret.

Yes, he did ask for the moral answer, but perhaps we need to give the loving answer. Almost all of us understand his loneliness and desperation. Back when I was much younger, a very dear friend of mine's mother developed Alzheimer's at a relatively young age. It went very fast. Her husband cared for her as long as he could at home, but as so often happens it reached a point where she had to be put in a NH. About a year later she had a caregiver who became a good friend of the husband and they started to see each other outside of the nursing home. I don't know anything about the (personal, private) part of it, but I do know that both of the daughters thought it was very good for their father to have someone to spend his time with. I have to believe that if they were okay with it, his wife would also have loved and cared enough for him to be okay with it. He had someone to have a conversation with, someone who asked how his day went, if he had eaten, taken his meds, etc. He also got a dog to share his home with. There is no one on this earth that loves dogs more than me (I have 6), but dogs do not talk about your day. Generally, you cannot go out for dinner with a dog. You can't go to a movie with a dog. You can't discuss a book with a dog. He still continued to go to the NH everyday to stay with his wife during the day. When she died, he & the caregiver had many happy years and times together before he, too, died. They never married or lived together. He had a friend. I'm glad his daughters recognized he did and did not resent him for it. Let us not be so quick to judge. He did not say he was going to not love or was going to foresake his wife. I know I love my husband enough I would not want him to be alone.

moral issue...how many times have we heard of a person with ALZ who is married and is living in assisted living conditions and has found comfort in the arms of another with same or like condition, also living in the same environment? It must be heart breaking for the married one left behind to see your spouse loving on another, while you come for a visit. Didn't this happen to a supreme court judge not long ago? I would hate to judge another person with or without ALZ for their finding a new friendship or love interest under such circumstances that are already so emotionally charged. Life is painful enough having to live without partner for whatever reason. We are all here to learn. The teachers take many forms. To love and forgive are our only concerns...harder said than done.

The cost of finding new relationship to replace what you have lost/are losing could be more than you are anticipating. You would do well to seek your solace and your joy in places other than a new opposite sex relationship. There are opportunities to volunteer, classes to take, grandchildren to spend time with, gardening to be done, or any of a myriad of other activities that give you a better equality of life and help assuage the loneliness while not burdening you with guilt or remorse. God bless you.

We all know about morals, and I am sure you are no dummy. However, my vote is to enjoy dinner or a movie out with a lady friend occasionally. I say to be discreet and not flaunt your friend. I am sure you are doing the best you can under the circumstances. I, personally, am not selfish. And with that being said, if I had dementia, I would definitely want my devoted spouse to enjoy his life. Happy people are better caregivers. And congrats on being married for so long. These days, half of all marriages end in divorce.

I told my husband that if I ever don't know who I am or who he is, I would want him to make sure I am as well cared for as possible, but he has my blessing to enjoy the company of a nice lady friend if she makes his journey easier and still leaves enough of him to not neglect me.

I took advantage of this question and the wide range of comments and opened up a discussion with my husband last night. We shared our thoughts and both feel comfortable knowing what the other feels if this should happen to us. Its hard to live with the possibility of getting Alz since it is rampant in my family but it's something my husband and I need to face.Thank you 123Ann for asking your question.

This is such an emotional thing to ponder that it sure has sparked a bunch of talk! My husband and I spent a while on the subject last night. I asked him, not as to what HE would do, but as to what he would want for ME given the scenario that he was totally incapacitated mentally and his body was waiting to depart as his mind already had. He unequivocally told me "I would want you to be happy. It would break my heart to think that you would ever be unhappy because of me". And this is what I would call a man who is definitely territorial, loves me and desires me with all his heart and he KNOWS I feel the same way. My answer would be the same to him, although neither of us can even bear to think of life without the other. We want to go out just like the ending scene in "The Notebook", but of course, life usually isn't that way.
I notice so many assumptions about just want a relationship with the opposite sex means. Many people on this blog have jumped to the conclusion that it is all about the sex. I don't think of that at all when I think of companionship when people lose their 'other'. In my case, I was in a sales profession for most of my career in which I sold mostly to men. I have been told by bosses and other male acquaintances that I have a 'male' mind in many ways. I relate well to men; women often seem catty, won't let go of a grudge, I hate to say it, but 'bitchy' without a little testosterone around. C'mon ladies, you know what I am talking about. Men tend to not do well without women in their lives either. I do not see why we cannot have friends of the opposite sex, which often is really what both want and which is often what many people miss when they don't have the one they have loved for so long to talk to and be with.
I do not understand the harshness of folks who say "Well, then! Just go ahead and divorce her and get on with YOUR life!" as if there is nothing but a hard spot there for the one they have loved for so long. The idea of just dropping the ball and moving on seems terrible to me, compared with having a relationship that fulfills emotional, social and intellectual needs that every healthy person has.
My husband and I do not have an 'open' marriage in any sense of the word. I don't work anymore, and we have moved from where I did, so I have no reason to seek out men that I do not know! But when I did work, I had lunch with male counterparts who were friends, or we met for Happy Hour on our way home, or I was required to entertain male customers for events or meals, often taking my husband with me, and he has done the same. We live in the light of day so there is nothing we do or have done that we couldn't tell the other about, ever.
Consider that often elderly folks 'pair up' with the wife or husband of a couple that they previously socialized with when they were all younger and spent time together as a foursome or in a group. They do have history together, they do have spouses who were each other's friends, and they can share those memories together. I can think of a few couples we have good times with now that we both love spending time with. If either of us lost our spouses, it would be easy to see how the remaining ones would still share a bond and want to spend time together. Sex is not how I think of it!
I said before and I still believe that as we age, hopefully we gain compassion for others through our own experiences and learn that life is lived mostly in the gray areas, not black and white. As my 94 year old ex-grandmother-in-law used to say "Life is pretty good if you weaken!". She had learned the old, stern adages of life make existence pretty grim if you can't go with the flow and live and let live a little.

This is directed to frustrated2: note the question of 123Ann: he is referring to a "new relationship" not "companionship", someone to "shoot the breeze" with - to take a breezer, refuel the tank, so he can keep on going and give his wife the care she needs. In many ways you and I are very much alike. I too come from the business world, and always found male friends/companionships much easier, I too found certain traits in female circles alien - what you refer to as "cattiness".

But, when my husband of 46 years suffered a major stroke, and because of it later developed vascular dementia - it would have never, ever crossed my mind to seek a "relationship" with someone else. I had a relationship, with my husband. Do we know how much they actually understand when we talk to them? There is so little known about the brain - coma patients, do they hear? Some actually do, confirm it after they wake up.

I have responded to 123Ann's question before, if he starts a new "relationship" he is setting himself up for something he does not want: guilt, remorse - that will haunt him after she passes on.

I never quit talking to my husband, I held his hand, kissed his palm and put it against my face and repeated dozens of times - "I love you and that will never change." Did he hear me? I don't know - sometimes I think he did - something in his eyes let me know. Or he would squeeze my hand. A reflex? I don't know. But it doesn't matter - what matters is the fact, I told him as many times as I could in the hope it will reach him somewhere. I loved doing it and I could tell myself, yes, he knows.

It's easier to say "yes, go on with your life, I want you to be happy" when you are healthy. My husband and I had that very same conversation. And you know what? It doesn't mean a thing when your loved one, someone bright as a penny, suddenly is reduced to someone who needs 24/7 care as you would care for an infant ...

I sincerely hope you will never have to confront this situation - it will rip your heart out.

N1K2R3, This is a sad, sad story! "Carla's" it sounds like manipulated him into marriage...this being the case I'm surprized if it lasts...! Even wife #1 knew this, although he was told repeatedly that she "wasn't there" anymore, to just give up on her! He would not, but alas ....she (the 1st wife) did know!! Just because they cannot physically comunicate does not in anyway mean that they aren't aware of what's going on....apparently this woman was aware. I hope that those who made these decisions are happy with their choices.... ! It would not be anything that I could choose to do, at least now. Who knows what the future will bring................ God bless to All

This is directed to marskburg. You sound very judgmental. I used to be like you, until after I was a devoted wife to the father of my three kids whom I helped run a business, cooked for, kept house for and loved with all my heart (spent half my life with too) I found out shall we say "I was married and he wasn't". He also moved all of our savings out of the country with three young kids to provide for. I started from scratch. On top of the strain of raising my three children myself and providing for them emotionally and financially, I found myself disoriented at the prospect of what I thought was something was another thing for so many years and that I had been lied to most of that time. I am not proud to say, even though I was a virgin when I met my husband and had been completely faithful to him for our entire marriage, my loneliness lead me into some bad choices. Being a Christian person, I was hardest on myself as far as forgiveness went. I was not able to give and give without being given to in return in some way and I was vulnerable. My divorce took 3 years since my husband moved every cent we had out of the country and it was hard to resolve. My mother advised me to not date at all. In retrospect, that was probably good advice, but my mother, who had never worked a day in her life and had a wonderful man, my dad, taking care of her since the age of 17 (they have now been married 60 years) had no understanding or empathy for my situation. I did not go to my parents for help either. They took the view always that "you made your bed, you lie in it" which I look back on now and think I am grateful for, since it made me so strong. But it was hellishly hard. During this very hard time, I met my husband, the one I am married to now. For various reasons, we decided to not marry, although we deeply loved each other. We walked away because of geography (his job landed him far from where I had carved out a career eventually), we each had 3 kids, one of his was very troubled, etc. So we lived for 17 years without each other and gave up the notion of ever being together. We were sacrificing, we thought, for our children. His one child continued to have emotional and psychological problems, but the other five of our collective 6 went to college, finished, and are successful people, all in their 30's and 40's. He looked me up 12 years ago and we married 10 years ago. We are grateful every single day for every single minute together. If either of us died tomorrow we would be grateful for our life together. We would GIVE ANYTHING to have found each other first and married when we were young so these would be OUR kids together, so we can say like many of our friends that we have been married for over 40 years. This man is the love of my life and I am his. He is my best friend. I can't imagine ever wanting another man, ever, nor can he imagine wanting another woman. But more than anything, our extraordinary love for each other wants over our own desires, happiness for each other. I have not written what I wrote previously to pose a 'scenario'. I know and my husband knows grief, loss, pain and also how vulnerable one can be when the rug is ripped out from under you by circumstances of life.
My own grandfather, who married six months after my grandmother died, to a 'fraternity brother's wife (a guy he knew in college about 60 years before!), actually did marry because he had common ground with this lady, albeit a lifetime ago! They were both a little nutty and we all sort of shook our heads when he married so quickly. He had had prostate cancer and was impotent, way pre Viagra. This was marriage and was not about sex, but he thought of it more than companionship. After 15 years, she passed away and he met another woman - this time both were in their 90's! - who he wanted to marry again! My very judgmental mother knew he was a grown man and could do darn what he pleased. My mother never would have been the type to approve of anybody living together and she certainly didn't want her own dad doing that! But my parents devised, with a pastor, a 'ring ceremony' which was not an actual legal marriage so their assets wouldn't be messed with. My grandfather and she thought they were married and were satisfied that 'tongues were not longer wagging' at the nursing home for all the time they spent in each other's rooms. Would you consider this an illicit relationship, living in sin?
My point in all of this detail is to say that I understand heartache, loss and I am not a person speaking from a hypothetical point of view. I used to be more rigid in my thinking and this is definitely not a compromise of my values. I just have more empathy than I used to have, hard earned from experience, and no one can judge a person without walking a mile in their shoes. As for ripping my heart out, I have had it ripped out. And who knew it could be beating so happily again in my chest, cured by the power of love.

frustrated2, I neither tried to be judgmental nor hurt your feelings - merely pointed toward the question before us - and all of us have walked roads in our lives we wouldn't wish for our worst enemies, and is not relevant to the question of 123Ann.

I am happy for you that were able to find a new life - I am still grieving the loss of my love, who was my life.

Stressedmom: Thanks for your response to this true story. The couple is now living near Bluffton, SC. They seem happy but Carla is still very manipulative.
She is constantly booking tours all over the world and spending her husband's money. Since she no longer works since her marriage, she pends her time painting and taking pictures of all her travels.

My 'heart' goes out to you. I am over 80 years old............ have heard, read and seen alot.......... married over 59 years 'for better or for worse' before my 'love' passed on ........ cared for him over four years.......... I'd like to remind you that you already know you do not 'need' anyone else's opinion, including mine. You make the decision and remember, that when you leave your body behind on this earth, instantly, you will be standing before our Lord Jesus Christ.(even if you do not believe in Him does not mean He is not very real)........ when you stand before Him, it is just you and He, no one else's opionion matters.
Do what you 'know to do that is right in His eyes' and be at peace with yourself and Him. Hugs!!! O:)

Perhaps the more well spouse could seek out friendships of someone of his/her own gender that would not be sexual. Just go for coffee/lunch type of relationship. Just someone to talk to.

After my wife was placed in an adult family home I decided to date for friendship and even to be unfaithful - as intimate relations had ended 4-5 years ago. My reasoning, which I believe, is that she wouldn't want me suspended, and I know I wouldn't want her to be. Trouble is I found out, I'm not healthy enough, nor actually available, for a new relationship. If I being honest, my old brain either wants sex or a codependent savior; no matter I consciously tell myself. Its different for everyone, but I'm actually seeking a new partner; and when I do so, I want to be fully available to commit to her and healthy enough to be a secure, repaired, separate person. I'm not a player and don't want to be -- and am still faithful to my wife. Its really tempting to want the hole filled and a mate through the suspension phase. I've put my ring back on and stopped dating. I've decided to direct my love of life in this phase to other areas and drop the self-pity. I'm going to start therapy and see if I can't be a non-romantic friend to women around me. Then wait 18 months to reassess. I don't know what I'll decide at that point - it will depend on my wife's condition. And to all the judges in these comments - judge a situation you've never experienced to your peril.

I appreciate your honesty and your choices. " I found out, I'm not healthy enough, nor actually available, for a new relationship ... I want to be fully available to commit to her and healthy enough to be a secure, repaired, separate person. I'm not a player and don't want to be -- and am still faithful to my wife."

You can't do better than being friends with people. A friendship tops a partial/lopsided relationship.

I think what you decide in 18 months will not just depend on your wife's condition, but on yours too, or you would have made a different decision now.

Would any of us who have all of our mental faculties and a deep love for a partner or spouse condemn that person to never again experience love and intimacy that a partner can provide? My fiancé is a kind and gentle man, who takes care of his AZ mother, but I know is made stronger by the love and support of our partnership. I would hope that if I were to have this same sad condition, that he could find love and support in whatever way he needed. Why would I want to deny him of that happiness that I could no longer provide?

I am experiencing this same issue. My husband is in the last stages of Alz. He is 68 years old and I am 57. We've been married for 30 years. The last ten years have been the most difficult years of my entire life. I have him in a really good facility with around the clock caregivers. I am with him for three hours every morning. In the last two months I have realized that I have already lost him. He is just physically there. I'm so lonely. I have my close girlfriends, but they have their husbands and families. They do what they can to keep me busy but the emptiness night after night is really turning into more depression. I did join a gym and have really enjoyed taking care of me, physically. I just miss companionship with a man. I miss being made to feel special. I feel that no one has the right to pass judgement on us that have lived through this disease and realize that we are about to reach a milestone in our life where our life is actually starting over on so many levels. Every case is different. Every caregiving spouse is different. I truly feel absolutely no guilt in wanting to meet someone and just enjoy having fun with another man without the stress, sadness, and hardships that I've had for so long now. Seriously! Do not judge!

I believe this is between you and God. You don't have to answer to anyone else. Walk a mile in someone's shoes before you try to say what they should do.

Exactly! Thank you. Frustrated2.

I am going through a similar experience. But it is my dad who has found a new relationship whilst my mum is in a home with dementia. My mum and dad are both only 62 so relatively young. The carer who came to them whilst mum was still at home, be it a family member, my uncles niece to be precise, only related by marriage is the person who dad started an 'affair' with. The odd thing is that mum was always included in plans when she was at home, whether it be going to the pub or over to the woman's house for dinner. Myself and my brother feel as the woman has taken advantage of a vulnerable situation as she was desperate for a relationship. Now mum is in a home and has been for 3 months he has started going on holiday with this woman and always goes to visits mum with her. I try to be understanding but feel as though it should have been kept separate from my mum and can't bear to see them together. He has started getting very close to her children too, she has 3 and 2 are still at home and spends a lot more time with them then he does his only grandson, my son. The worse bit is that all the family are accepting of it but me and my brother understandably feel that it's a betrayal to mum. Would understand it a lot more if he left her or they had got divorced. Would appreciate any comments from a daughter or son in a similar situation.

ssb1971, you would accept this more if he left her or they divorced? Yes, I suppose that would be a more "conventional" sequence of events. Maybe it would remove the stigma of adultery from your eyes.

But doing it that way would have been far, far more hurtful to your mother. I personally think that it would be a more rotten thing to do to cause poor confused Mother more pain and heartbreak by insisting on an official divorce. Obviously this action is not a rejection by your father of your mother. This is something in addition to his devotion to his wife and his attempts to look out for her welfare. If this woman was her caregiver for a while it probably seems natural to Mother that she would continue an interest in her care.

To me it is far more important to preserve Mother's dignity and comfort than for Dad to maintain some kind of a conventional reputation.

Everyone in this family is going through some serious mourning. You are losing your dear mother, bit by bit. And it sounds like you are worried about losing your father, too, as he now shares his attention another woman and her children. This is understandably a very difficult time for you. Is Dad betraying Mum? In what way? Does she feel betrayed? Is she sad about this development? Is Dad neglecting her? Withholding financial support? I suspect that if the rest of the family can accept the situation it must not be an obvious betrayal.

I hope that you and your brother can reserve judgment until you are less emotionally fragile. Of course you are hurting dreadfully right now. Father's actions may seem like a logical target for your hurt and bad feelings. But the dementia would be progressing no matter what. The outcome will be the same whether Father keeps to himself or reaches out to other companionship.

Would I have considered an affair while my husband had dementia? I can't honestly say. I was always too busy and too tired to even think about it!

This is tricky. I would have no moral or religious problems, but many friends and family could be upset by some sort of affair. But then again its really none of there business. Key words, discretion and good judgement.