What are the moral issues when spouses of Alzheimer's patients seek outside relationships?

Well, traditional marriage vows are for "better or worse til death do us part," which means it is never ok to seek a relationship outside the marriage. But with dementia, the moral issue is - are they still there, because at some point, they don't recognize us and there is really no relationship. I think, at that point, as long as you do not walk away from your responsiblity, it is up to you. Other people should not judge you. They will, but it shouldn't matter to you. I don't believe in harsh spiritual judgement, but a forgiving/understanding god/spirit, and I think in the afterlife, we all are more enlightened.

The other thing to consider it is that there is a difference between a friendship relationship and romantic/sexual relationship. Some would say the friendship is ok, but not the sexual. The problem is a friendship turning into something more.

If you don't already do so, you might want to consider social activities, not couples activities, or finding people with the interests/hobbies, and it would help the loneliness.

well I agree for better and for worse, you said 50 years of marraige that would at least make you 70 years old, do you really need to find another relationship at that age? If you do then I suggest do the right thing and get a divorce

What is the Moral Issue? Marriage is a serious thing. Whether you did it by "church" or "secular" you both made vows to be faithful. It does't matter if your spouse has "forgotten" who you are and can no longer assuage your "needs." You became One in God's eyes. And He was very specific in the Bible about marriage.

Having extramarrital affairs? Whoever your "New" companion is, she will remind you of what "Normal" used to be - to talk to someone, to laugh, to share the current news, to enjoy everything that you no longer experience now. Your heart will soon follow your..uhm...desires (sorry, trying to be political correct here). I think you're fooling yourself if you think you can just have extramarital "activities" and NOT have it affect you and the wife.

In the end, you will resent your wife for holding you back, for wasting money on her when you have better use for it, etc... I'm sorry...

I believe in God, the Bible and marriage. I cannot condone extramarital affairs. Your marriage vows did not have an exclusion clause on it.

Talk about being judged ! Stop thinking with your little head and start thinking with the big head God gave you. I question you about your 50 years of faithfulness if you could push her aside this easily. I agree with the above in that you should find a activity, go hang with the boys, buy a dog! You only have a little more time left, then you can start being the selfish person that you are acting now. Remember, do unto others as you would have them do unto you? I am sure that this is not the answer you wanted. But you asked the question.

Dear 123Ann, what a difficult spot to be in and what an honest question. This reminded me of "Away from Her" (movie about 45 year marriage and wife has ALZ). If you haven't seen it, make sure you do. In this stage of ALZ, your wife may not resemble the person you married. Take this one day at a time. If you're feeling isolated, reach out to family, old friends and neighbors or support groups, to make sure you stay connected. This forum is a great place for that. Try to think of what your beloved would have done if she been in your place. It may help you resolve these feelings. And this should remind us all to talk with our loved ones about our own wishes should we ever be in your spot. Be strong 123Ann.

What if the shoe was on the other foot? what if you were the patient and SHE was the one who wanted another person after 50 years of marriage? If you have kids buddy, guess what, she gave birth to each one. Probably saw you were fed and your clothes were washed when you went to work, probably worried when you came home late. I hope to God if I ever get a disabling illness, my "love story" wont end up like this one! What happened to your "friendship"? You do not treat a partner, a friend, a spouse this way. I am sure and know for a fact that she didnt choose to be ill. And yes, caretaking is stressful. Get a dog, a cat, a support group, your left hand. whatever. like the old song.."ruby..dont take your love to town.."....remember buddy you asked this question..I wish there was a button to give someone a kick in the behind instead of a hug..but there isnt one. Grow up..its time.

Really, people....no one of us can feel the pain he has...he owns it....I too have a spouse in late stage dementia and I feel as if he has died already...I never thought I would feel this way...but once they don't recognize you it becomes much harder to cope....The loss eats at you all day and there IS no closure until they do pass....With his wife still at home it must be even harder....I am reaching out to friends and fortunately getting support, but it is a very hard journey with a lot of potholes in the road. Hang in there my friend! I know SOME of what you're going through and it really stinks! At 61, I am hoping to have a life again!! Perhaps you can too.....

He asked what was the MORAL ISSUES. We are responding accordingly.

I would have to agree with the above comments already given. I can't help but wonder in situations like this why it is always "harder" for the male in the marriage to be the caregiver! Forgive my candor, but in our family it is my father in law who has been stricken, and my dear mother in law (who at 88 is already 4 years older than FIL) who takes care of him (with the help of round the clock caregivers, as he is completely paralyzed on the left side as the result of stroke). We are a long distance away and cannot be a lot of physical help to them, but I can tell you that she would do EVERYTHING possible to give him the best care she can for as long as she can, and it would never enter her mind to "seek an outside realtionship" because she is lonely!!!! Her focus is on HIM....keeping him as well as he can be. For whatever reason, MEN just do not seem to have the stuff it takes to really care for someone else when it means going the distance! If you have been married to this same woman for 50+ years, faithfully.....this is NOT the time to abandon her just because you are lonely! You have so many other options open to you in the way of family, friends, support groups (and yes, I know sometimes men don't really 'believe' in support groups or spilling their guts to other people to whom, afterall, it's none of their business) Get over it. You owe your wife your loyalty! And, by the way, you will feel so much better about yourself in the end if you do the right thing and keep your vows!

Maybe I should clarify that my FIL was already a victim of severe dementia when his stroke occurred, so my MIL was already caring for him in that capacity, and it is even harder on her now with him paralyzed.

I agree with the combination of everyone here. These are all good answers and thoughts. But I lean with most on the issue of being faithful til death do us part. Question about the morality, what if it was you who perhaps, say, got Alzheimers some time down the road with your new lady "friend" and she leaves you to find her a "new" life? You've alienated your family and friends, "supposedly", your children (if you have them) are estranged from you, then you are there by yourself. Do you know what it's like to be at the mercy of a hospital/nursing home on your own? My mom didn't have alzheimer's but was a victim of medical malpractice. Even though we were in town the hospital was horrible to her. When we were not there, she went downhill rapidly and was abused. Can you live with yourself knowing that this woman who put up with you for 50 years will live out her days like that? You're enjoying yourself at her expense. Don't set yourself up for unrelievable guilt in the future. It is hard to be a caregiver, but think of what it means to her even if she doesn't recognize you. Try reverse psychology and tell her you're a new gentleman suitor who would like to take her out on a date. Court her like you did 50 years ago, then like others said, get involved in activies/hobbies that you never had time for before or start something new that didn't involve your wife, so when the time comes for her to pass on, you will have already established that something and won't be scrambling to find things to do. There will be plenty of ladies out there once she's gone and you will be glad you waited. I wish you much peace of mind.

I understand the loneliness. One thing you can do is to get involved outside of the home with a group, perhaps the Alz. Assoc. or other groups. This will alleviate the loneliness and perhaps give your life purpose. It is a hard road to travel but remember, "if God brought you to it, He will bring you through it." Do you go to support group meetings? Support groups are very helpful---you'd be surprise what you hear at these meetings. There is laughter, crying, hugging and simply being with others who understand what you are going through.

The moral issues for spouses of Alzheimer's patients seeking outside relationships are the same as for the spouses of healthy people, and the same for that spouse before their wife/husband got Alzheimer's.
"to be faithful through sickness and through health..."

If you are as concerned about "morals" as you seem,....then you already know the answer? Godbless your decision

I know you asked for the morality of seeking a relationship outside the marriage when your partner has dementia and it seems that you definitely got it. I am a female and with my partner for just over 20 years. He had a stroke a year ago and had not been well for some time before that. I am not looking for a relationship but honest to goodness there are times when I would just like someone to hold my hand, and hug me and talk to me about things other than health issues. If my partner had dementia (which he does not) I know that morality aside I would need to have that human contact that friends and social groups do not provide. Having this would help me continue with my role as caregiver otherwise I would die first of loneliness.

Is she not already "dead"? Her brain is not there anymore. And she doesn't even know it. Is being able to breath the only definition of life? You are the one that is suffering.God loves us and I wonder if he would want that? Would it make him angry if you found a lady friend?

bubble, in the bible God does detests fornicators and adulterers. yes, it would make God angry. Hebrew 13:4 - let marriage be honorable and the marriage bed be without excitement, for God will judge fornicators and adulterers.

Do you already have someone in mind? Are you looking for ways to justify this new relationship to your family?

I know a woman, Carla, who is now married to her second husband. Her story: She became involved with him after her divorce. He was married to a woman with Althzeimer's. ..... He refused to leave his wife, although he carried on a relationship with Carla . ( Name changed to protect the guilty). He was pressed constantly by Carla to divorce his wife so that they could marry. She reasoned that the wife was in the final stages of ALZ, and did not recognize him.
The man visited his wife every day at the NH, talked to her, fed her and read to her. The response was silence. Finally the man gave in to the wishes of his girlfriend, and divorced his wife.......still visitng every day, feeding her, talking to her silent body. Carla convinced him that his visits were useless, unncessary. He and Carla did marry. On the evening of the marriage, he received a call from the NH that his wife had passed away, leaving her ring around a rolled up piece of paper with their photo tucked inside. No one on the Nursing Staff ever remembers putting a ring around a rolled up paper with any photo.

sorry, kindle wants no excitement in the marriage bed. I typed defilement and it came out as no excitement!! =)

At age 65 my mom had a seventy yr old BF, George. George's wife had suffered with dementia for 10 years +. George and his wife had had no children. First George cared for his wife in their home. Eventually, his wife was placed in a nsg. home because George was physically unable to care for her any longer. She had not recognized him for years, yet he continued to visit her daily. Years later, George and my mother quickly became "companions" after they met in the grocery store, as they had both been so lonely. My mother wanted no part of a sexual relationship. But the two of them deeply enjoyed/appreciated having someone to talk with, watch TV with (especially baseball games), play (par 3 or 4) golf with, etc., and occasionally they'd go out to eat. George never left his wife and has nothing to be ashamed of. He continued to visit his wife and my mother eventually joined him in comforting her as best she/they could. For different reasons George and my mom had both suffered with loneliness and depression prior to their meeting. But their loving relationship flourished over time, and I feel it truly was a blessing for all.

123Ann, I don't know about the moral issue, but having cared for my husband with dementia for nearly a decade, I'm wondering where you'd find time and energy for an outside relationship.

123Ann, I work for a NH and believe me I see alot. We have gentlemen who comes daily to see their wife and just sit with them and talk. We have one couple that she has been with us for a year now and the will soon (on the 23rd) celebrate 69 years as husband and wife. I myself have been with my husband for 40 yrs. I find it hard to believe that you have been that faithful to your wife over these past 50 if you are asking the question of morals unless you are just asking for consent. If it were my dad looking for a relationship I would notwant anything else to do with you. Think of your wife and family and get a DOG!!!

The fact that you asked about the "moral issue" tells me you already know the answer and ask for permission. I am sorry, but as has been mentioned several times by others it is "for better or worse, and in sickness and health". You play the cards that have been given to you.
Yes, it is lonely; yes, you wish you could have mental and physical closeness with someone. But that "someone" is your life partner, and illness has taken her away from you. But she is still with you, there in your home and heart. You can talk to her, touch her - she does not know you anymore. But you do know her, you remember all the years you spent together. Do you really think you can push that aside and start with someone else, without your thoughts going back to your wife? You will feel guilty, and you really do not want that. It will haunt you.

My husband of 46 years didn't know me either - but I knew HIM! I talked to him as I would have under normal circumstances. I took care of him - the delight we took in each others company, mental and physical - were in my memory! When the loneliness tried to take over, I switched gears and thought of all the wonderful years we spent together and it gave me comfort and the strength to keep going.

You still have her - I have lost him, and believe me, the loneliness without him is much, much worse then the loneliness I felt with him in my care, although he did not know who I was.

Dear 123Ann,

My heart goes out to you, but something tells me you have already answered your own question by merely making the post. No one can truly begin to answer a question of morality for another person, this is your own choice and your own path. My only advice is to remember that the void you are seeking to fill is only left because of the love and adoration you have for your loved one. That particular void can not be filled by any other person.

I "believe in God, the Bible and marriage," too. So, I don't pretend to be God in judging what's "moral" in a VERY personal set of circumstances. Here's what I do know...marriages are like snowflakes, every one is different and no one but the two people in them can fully understand their relationship at the many stages of their lives. Here's an anecdote for you, since that's how we're pulling heartstrings here: I know a woman in the late stage of ALZ. It was very early onset and she's only about mid-60s. Her husband cared for her at home until she became entirely wheelchair bound and unable to help much at all with transfers. His health suffered terribly before he finally moved her to an AL. One of he and his wife's friends had helped him care for her at home and continued to come see her regularly at the AL. She and the husband saw so much of each other they began to 'date' (though that's not what they called it). At some point though, their relationship became more serious and they 'came out of the closet', though they never flaunted it. The two of them together continue to care for his wife. She's almost entirely uncommunicative now, but you see the glimmer of happiness only when her husband and the friend are there for visits. They come often and stay long, with the friend visiting even more frequently (the husband still works). Go ahead - judge that relationship. It's all about love and respect and, if those criteria are met, it's a 'moral' relationship. "Judge not, that ye be not judged."

123Ann....If you follow this link you might find this article relevant and interesting: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704317704574503631569278424.html It's an article published in the Wall Street Journal, in Nov. 2009, dealing with the issue that you've brought up, e.g. being the spouse of a partner with Alzheimers and having "outside" relationships.

i dont agree with any of these people. if the spouse is fullfilling his / her obligations and caring for the partner till death ,i dont see how anyone is harmed by an extramarital relationship. i think most of these negative replys are fueled by idealistic emotion. until one of you is faced with this persons scenario and suffers the same loss i think its hard to judge.. i think older females often become aloof and disinterested in intimacy. id divorce a woman on those grounds alone. typically a woman offered love and intimacy ( not necessarily sex ) and at some point it became unimportant to her. contract freakin nulled..

Capnhardass, just how many times have you been married and for how long each time.. Sounds like you may have a track record. Sorry 123Ann but you did ask the morality question and I think you have gotten the opinion of many. What ever you decide be sure you can live with yourself and donot loose the respect of the ones that love you the most cause you may need them one day and they won't be there!

I do not have a spouse with A. but I have been divorced and remarried. I too believed that under NO circumstances while a spouse was still breathing (ie, alive) should one ever, ever get involved in any other relationship. IF a divorce occurred, it was also only to occur because one's spouse was unfaithful. Black and white. No gray areas here.
Let me say that I am in a marriage now that I am sure I will never follow up with another romantic relationship. Don't ask me how I can be so sure with what I am going to say, but with the experiences I have had in my life I know. You can believe me or not.
Here is what I have learned in 57 years on this earth. First, life is lived in the gray areas. We all look to some authority to let us off the hook when we ask a 'moral' question such as this one. But truly, no matter who tells you what, the truth of your life is between you and God. You can't hide from Him. I would probably say that if you are even asking 'is this moral' you already think not. Next, marriage takes two people to be in it. You have to be of 'sound mind' to enter any contract (some would argue that nobody who GETS married is! A small joke here...). A person with A. is not of sound mind and they are not 'coming back'. They have already left.
When two lonely people have dinner together, keep each other company, understand as nobody else ever would, having lost a loved one, one way or the other, I personally think there is no room for guilt here. At this point in my life, as I said before, God is my judge and really, who cares what anybody else thinks. As for sex, it is nobody's business what you are up to. When women are post menopausal and men struggle with ED and prostate issues, it takes a special motivation anyway. I still do love my husband and I love having sex with him, but neither of us is driven by the same level or urgency we once were. If you have to work at it, then I guess I am wondering why it needs to be so important in your life. I do get wanting to feel that old, great feeling of desire. Again, personal.
I am a Christian and I believe in marriage. I do not think beyond being dutiful in caring for a loved one who is 'lost' mentally is negotiable. But in order to pour something out of a pitcher, it needs to be refilled and refilled, over and over.
The other side of this coin is when spouses who are in A. care, in a home, form 'marriages' with others there and don't know their real spouses from Adam. I have known folks who go to visit their spouse and are decimated that the person they love doesn't give them the time of day but bonds to another person who has the same condition they do. Should you then blame the person with A. for cheating?
This is a whole can of worms that those of us who haven't walked in their shoes have no business casting judgement about. I would say, though, that you cannot look to anyone else to assuage your conscience. I would say, be respectful and discreet, know you will come up against judgement from some people and be prepared to deal with it, and never shirk your responsibility in caring for your spouse until they depart physically from this earth.