Should I report suspected elder financial abuse in the family?

This will be a bit long......What was the situation before 8 months ago?

This is sticky. I'm assuming gran is not in imminent danger, my suggestion is that before you contact anyone, can your sister put on her best Nancy Drew and get documentation? What she needs to look for are bank statements that are about 6 to 8 months apart for 3 years, same for receipts for medications, credit card statements. Get them, run to Kinko's & them return them without your aunt or grannie knowing. I would NOT let grannie know what you are doing, as it sounds she is aligned with her daughter no matter what. The checks that are of a significant amount (over 5K) you need to have front & back copies of. If any are over 10K the bank is keeping track of those because of Homeland Security issues
Also you need to find her annual SS retirement statement - this comes out every January so that is right around the corner. If she get's any federal or RR retirement their annual statement come out in Jan too. Make a copy of those and ny other retirement/annuity or other income producing assets. If sis is there 8:30 - 5 every day she has time to do this and do it carefully. This way you have an accurate idea of what gran's assets truly are.

If your gran has selected your aunt as her DPOA, MPOA and perhaps even "Guardian in case of incapacity", then she (your aunt) has the upper hand in all this, so you better make sure whatever documentation you have is locktight. If your sister is getting paid under the table for gran, this could become a real issue in court if she wants co or full guardianship & IRS wise for her.

Gran can choose to give your aunt and her nephews $$$ if she wants to. Even if they are worthless POS. The ? is....is she competent and cognitive to do so?

What does her medical chart say? Has your sister gone to any doctors appointments with her & if so what did the doctor say?

Now if APS comes in who is going to take care of gran? Are you willing to drop and stop everything so gran can move in with you? Do you have a home that can provide her a private room & bath and whatever else is available at your aunt's house? Are you or other family members willing to go to court to be appointed grans guardian or conservator; provide the documentation that you are suitable & perhaps be bonded; and deal with the reporting and court hearings?

I have been executrix twice for 2 aunts estates and probate court where this is held is usually also where they do guardianships/conservatorships and I have heard an earful of family friction on this very issue. It is hard to prove what is elder financial fraud when it is within the family as so much of the $ is co-mingled and the elder often wants to help the family member. The judge has a tough decision. So often they can & usually do the "devil that you know route" that is without obvious abuse like produce photos they are living in absolute squalor, they are in & out of the ER, have open wounds, APS has a pretty damming report, etc, they will usually let the elder continue to live in the home but will tell the caregiver (your aunt) that she has to report to either the court or APS for a period of time. In other words "the devil that you know is better than the devil you don't know". If that happens it will not be pretty for you and your sister will be out of a job.

The other option is for the court of appoint an outsider to handle the elder's case -
The G/C judge does NOT have to appoint you or a family member as the G/C. If there is family friction or abuse, they will appoint an outsider to manage the elder's affairs and that person will be paid to do so out of the person’s assets. There is always a paralegal representing law firms about the courthouse that are there to have their firm appointed as guardian/conservator. The Court has the right to remove the elder from all family members and make him a Ward of the State.
If this happens family is cut out of the picture entirely in where she goes & what the $ is spent on. If there is $ and the family is not all kum-ba-ya on gran's care then the judge will often make them a ward of the state just to shut everybody up.

Regarding your aunts spending down gran's $ in order to qualify for "govt. assistance/medical care", your gran should already be on Medicare, she qualified for that once she turned 65. She might also have a secondary insurer, like BCBS or a Medicare supplement plan. Before you go and contact APS you need to know what's what & available for gran's care.

If your aunt is looking for Medicaid to step in to pay for gran's care then that would likely be when gran moves into a NH. She doesn't need that right now as your sister is being paid for providing in-home care daily. If & when she moves into a NH and applies for Medicaid, the look-back period is 5 years. Could your aunt be planning and doing a spend-down right now so that she is eligible for 2016?

Whatever the case, your aunt or whomever places gran into a NH will need to provide documentation to the state to account for gran's assets for up to 5 years prior to qualify for Medicaid to pay for the NH. Also you sign off in the application for the state to access any accounts gran has, so if $, property or other assets were transfered within that period, the state will find out eventually. A penalty is placed on the persons NH account that the family will have to private pay till the penalty period is over, this usually comes up after they have been accepted into the NH "Medicaid pending". The penalty is a % equation for this which depends on each state's NH average NH rate & medicaid reinbursement. If your aunt has had control over the assets for the 5 years prior, the NH will come to her for the $ if gran is assesed a penalty. She can ask, as DPOA for gran, for the state for a waiver, do an appeal, have hearings, etc - it will keep her busy and can be a real nightmare. So she won't get away from doing this IF she is doing transfers to get gran poor to qualify for Medicaid

My point is you need to think this through carefully. I'd see if there is an aunt or uncle that wants to take over for gran's care and financial management or co-manage it with you. Good Luck.

I want to thank all of you for taking the time to respond & give me such good information. I really appreciate the thought that went into your responses. I will respond more thoroughly to all the questions soon. I just wanted to pop in here to let you know I am reading all these.
@mayasbop: The reason I feel stuck is because my sister wasn't reporting her income & is now saying if an investigation is launched things could get twisted & she can be dragged in the middle. She gets medicaid for my neice, whom has asthma & is worried she will not if her income is reported & she will get in trouble for not doing so. So she has asked me not to say anything right now. Puts me in a real bad spot. No, I am not dependent on $ in any way from my grandmother.

As for the brainwashing thing..... Long story short, it has been going on for many, many yrs. My aunt has used her parents for as long as can remember conning them into paying for everything, buying her new appliances, cars, etc, etc. Making them feel they are dependent on her, kind of crippling them as they feel they needed her so much yet at the same time she would be draining them. There is a long history there. Grandfather was ill for a long time before he passed away.
It has just continued. My grandmother will say my aunt is mean & hint around she knows she's spending her money, then a few min. later cozy up to her, or make excuses for her & say things like "poor Suzy, she's going through so much. she's so good." There's a lot more but this is just an example.

I have found out recently that my aunt is behind 2 months on her mortgage & guess who just paid it. Also, she has been paying her kids rent for over a yr. while taking my grams $ & saying she can't pay her bills. My uncle is supposed to be looking into this but I haven't heard yet. I will not wait too long though as I feel I am doing my grammie an injustice. It's my sister's own fault she got herself into this mess with her not reporting things & now she wants me to hold off reporting even though she's the one who tells me all the stuff.

I do not live there, nor am I responsible for her day to day care. I live several states away & only visit. I am aware how hard it is to care for her & commend my aunt for taking her in & giving her a home. I know it's not easy. However, my gram has given up a lot & continues to give up most of her assets. I am working on trying to get her to come stay with us. It's a big job as I'm not sure I can get her to leave. She's said she wants to move out (my gram) but when it comes down to it I'm not sure she'd leave my aunt. Very dependent. And YES, she will defend her. She told my sister once when she was talking about her being mean, "I dont' want to lose my daughter." So I think she'd feel guilty & like she was betraying her. It really is a crappy situation.

No one else in the family has offered to have her stay with them either. ON the contrary, they aren't very involved & offer little support. Family. Sometimes complete strangers can be more compassionate.

Anyway, there are many more questions & I will get to them. I just don't have the time right now to answer all. Thanks again everyone.

Luvmygram...with all do respect. "The problem with reaching out this way" is that we don't know the whole story and are giving advice on some assumptions. That didn't mean we think these assumptions are facts,we are simply giving advice from these different angles. We appreciate you awnsering questions to help us understand the situation better. Golf cared enough to take time to awnser your question to help you...like you requested. These are the facts I do understand. Your grandmas daughter is caring for her and has hired her granddaughter your sister to be a caregiver also. Grandma has ala. And parkinsons. Your concern is that she is not being cared for properly, but she is being cared for properly by your sister. Your other concern is that her daughter is mishandling her money. You live in another state and are getting your info from sister...I understand completely her fear,I understand what its like to have a child you would do anything to take care of them. That didn't change when the child grows up. To your grandmother,her helping her daughter pay the late mortgage is somthing most parents would want to do for their children. If someone told my mother it wasn't right for her to help one of her children,she would probably show them the door. Even if she had just had a huge disagreements with that child. My point is for you to tread lightly because as close as you are to your Grammy that is still her daughter and she will fight tooth and nail for her child. The last place you want to be if things are not on the up and up is ostracized from geammya life. If Grammy is being physically abused(it doesn't sound like it)then by all means do somthing now but if not I would step back a bit. Your Grammy s relationship with her daughter may not be healthy in other peoples eyes but they both get somthing out of it for it to have been this way all along. There is no crime in this kinda relationship you hear all the time or 40to years or living off of mom and dad. Healthy?no noble?no but it happens in most family somewhere. Taking care of your mom is especially hard...your aunt may sleep on weekends cause she is depressed or burnout. She is lucky to have your sis helping her. Its to hard for one person to do alone. Care is expensive. How much does it cost to hire your sister? Figure that up over a length or time. Medicines for parkinsons expensive, has she had any short hospitalizations? Medicare has strict rules on what they will pay for.many seniors can spend a few hundred dollars in medicine from one hospital stay if they don't meet certain criteria to pay for it. If aunt is a social worker you are right she probably does know the rules,she may have acted like she didn't know to be polite,or avoid the conversation with you. If you go calling agency with a bunch of rumors the first thing they will ask is, what have you witnessed. Grammy relationship with her daughter has likely been like this all her life. You don't want your Grammy being pulled outta her home,and put taken over by strangers. They would be unlikely to pull her from her home and give her to another relative several states away. Its not that simple. You may not want the animosity it would create between the family. Unless you KNOW your aunts intentions not just assume them,I would step back. If aunt messesup the money part with Medicaid and has to pay a lot of ninety outta pocket that's on her. You can try to give advice. But if she don't listen that's her mess up. If grandma wants to continue this type of relationship with her daughter..that's grandmas right. You could probably do more good by being the supportive granddaughter/niece. Lend them an ear when they get on each others nerve..offer advice. Love and support them. But getting into custody issues over grandma may make you the bad guy. Remember grandma may not want to be rescued. Please don't take anything said as being mean or rude. I really don't think that is anyones intent.



..disagreement with her child. My point to that is for

Thank you very much for your response. You gave me a lot to think about. I think I am going to step back, not that I've done anything yet anyway. I am not going to get into this at all. You are right in saying it's her choice to do what she wants with her money. It's her choice. She has been half supporting my aunt for many yrs. now but she wants to do it I guess.
You have a good point in that grammie will stand by her daughter & defend her, regardless. She will do that & I know it. Even if her daughter did something very obviously wrong, she would still defend her & probably be very angry with anyone saying anything against her daughter. No, I don't want to be that person.

thank you to everyone who has given such thoughtful answers. I appreciate all the care & time you took to write.
I am going to continue to be a support with daily phone calls, emails & an ear for all 3 of them. I will be there visiting again soon for a wk. & will go there more often. That's the best I can do.

Yes I would report this immediately. Go to the website for the Department of Health and Senior Services. There will be information on how to report this.

I agree. Report immediately. Generally speaking if your grandmother does have dementia, and, this is a medical fact, you have a strong case. In addition to what is recommended by others, I would suggest filing a police report and seek the advice of your county prosecutor. If you are financially able, seek custody of your grandmother for her protection. As mentioned by others do not wait. God Bless you in your efforts to save your grandmother.

Absolutely!!!!! Don't even wait. I reported my sister and they investigated her and she had to give the money back. Please don't wait. Protective Services and the department of aging in your area will investigate it right away and anonymously if that is what you would like. They will show up there without a word and see what is happening. Please call today!!!!!

Hi, if you have proof that she has done this with the money, then I would definately report it. I think by taking this to your uncle you have started. If you think this is better dealt with inside the family, then that is your choice. Somethings are better left that way. The authorities aren't going to make it better. I would ask other family members to be in charge of your grandmas money, and when your aunt needs money for her, she would have to ask for it, and give a reason why. This would ensure that the money used is for your grandmother, and her household. It might be easier to appoint an attorney to do this. That way, no one in the family would have to deal with this responsibility. Then, the rest of the family could be given copies of her monthly bank statements, and spending reports. I know this sounds a little business like, but, that is how it should be done. In the end, any money left from your grandma would be left to her heirs. I wouldn't let her daughter have the rest of the money, or the house, because when that is all gone, she will probably stick her in some institution.

I agree with sodapopp12 about having someone else do the money. We also had my uncle agree to be my mother's POA instead of my sister but my sister refused to give up her power. That is when we had protective services involved. This was the only way to make her give up her POA as that is what my mother wanted and it was also in the best interest of my mother. It put a neutral party in charge of mom's finances and it was someone who loved her and would do what was necessary to see she wasn't being financially exploited.

Thank you for letting us know you are reading the responses. I commend you for realizing your sister's decisions were hers, and therefore, she is responsible for the consequences. Although I advocate for older adults and their rights, I can appreciate the position you are in. Families are made up of humans and are not perfect. They can be quite messy at times. I'm glad your grandmother has someone who cares this much for her. Good luck.