My mother is 63 has MS and diabetes. She is currently living in the nicest independent living facility in our city. She moved herself in to my grandparent’s “apartment” at the facility 3 years ago after my grandfather passed away. Before that she was living in a garden home and although she used a cane occasionally she drove and was completely independent. My mother is an only child and was unusually obsessed with her parents. They came before anything else. Even me and my brother. She claims the reason she moved into the independent living is “when her MS gets bad my brother and I won’t have to worry about her”…..her moving into that place has been nothing but a curse. I was very vocal about my feelings about her moving into the independent living. As the saying goes, “if you don’t use it you’ll lose it”. I knew that if she moved in there and had so many things done for her she would lose motivation to get up and move. I was right. She developed a stage 4 wound on her bottom that gave her sepsis and sent her to the hospital June 2021. Since then she has not gotten out of the bed. She is completely bedridden. She can not toilet and often refuses to even sit all the way upright to eat.
My mother has 24/7 sitters with her in her independent living apartment. She is spending $25k+ a month in sitters and her rent to the independent living facility. She inherited a lot of money, but at this rate this money will not last forever.
My husband and I are 36. We own a video production company and have four children ages 14, 12, 9, and 6. I absolutely cannot take on caring for my mother with four young children. Although my brother and mother definitely hint that they wish I did more than I do—which is visit her 1-2 times a week and run the occasional errands for her. My brother is single with no children and visits 3 times a week.
My mother more than qualifies for a nursing home. But she and my brother refuse to even discuss it. But we have to! She is going to run out of money in a few years and then where will she be? One of my brother’s fantastic ideas is to move my bed bound mom into a garden home alone and keep the 24/7 sitters. Do y’all hear this nonsense? That’s incredibly unsafe. It would be cheaper than the $4k a month rent at the independent living, but that’s not even what the bulk of the cost is. She is paying $20k a month for the sitters!
To me, the best option is to find a really nice nursing home now while she can still be choosy. She is already living in a makeshift nursing home in her apartment with the sitters, I truly don’t see what the difference is. My brother has offered to move in with her and assume her care, but that’s not fair to him and aside from that, I know that will get old real quick. My brother is obsessed with making sure my mom is “happy” even if it means making dumb decisions. He told my husband and I if we put her in a nursing home and “forget about her” he would never speak to us again. How do I convince him that not all nursing homes are horrible? And that our visits would stay the same no matter her location? He has it in his head that if she goes in there she will be dead in a year.
thanks for letting me vent.
It sounds like your brother loves Mom very much, and it sounds like you do too! But if she is of sound mind and wants to spend her money that way, well, so be it. It is hers.
re:
"My brother has offered to move in with her and assume her care, but that’s not fair to him and aside from that, I know that will get old real quick. My brother is obsessed with making sure my mom is “happy” even if it means making dumb decisions."
...I guess I would say to let them try it out! It is lovely that he wants to keep her happy. If they somehow figure out a good caregiving support schedule that would enable her to stay out of a facility, that would be great. Otherwise, I am certain that the "school of hard knocks" will teach brother that it is time to spend mom's money on the best skilled facility available. It is amazing how beds open up in good nursing homes when you have a lot of cash. That said, even the best SNF's aren't perfect... people catch diseases, things get overlooked, and the aides vary in their quality level.
You have 4 kids and work full time. Make it clear that you cannot take on any care giving, of course make sure you continue to visit and bring the grandkids to see her, or continue to run errands if available. If you are not responsible for care giving, (I hope I don't sound harsh here!) you don't get to vote on this and you shouldn't say "I told you so" either.
Many of us in the care giving world wish we had a brother like you do!
I see the real issue that your mom and brother are taking offense with is that you don't have any more time or energy to give your mom because you have a family of your own to take care of. That is what they need to come to terms with. Even if your mom was healthy and didn't have MS, you don't have more time to give. You can't feel guilty about that. You have young children and they need their mom.
Don't feel guilty. Do the best you can and visit mom when you can. Mom is allowed to make her own decisions about her life, but you are entitled to do the same.
819 stated…Mom needs to be in a skilled nursing facility. She also stated that in a few years she's going to run out of money. In her leading paragraph she ends with "How do I convince them" and ended her post with "How do I convince him that not all nursing homes are horrible? And that our visits would stay the same no matter her location?" and I proceeded from there.
You sound like a sweet sparkly person…"love and light", let me guess, California?
Special.
This is an open forum. We do the best we can based off of our own many years of experiences with very best intentions and ideas as faulty and unenlightened as they may be. Have a heart. No cancelling. Better to focus on the posters rather than be a correctional officer. I know you are very wise but even the least of us hope to be helpful.
Funny thing there are many similarities between my earlier response to this post and yours. We could be twins TouchMatters.
Visiting twice a week with your own family is doing a lot.
Realize that you can do so much - you've stated what you feel is the best way to proceed. If your mother / brother do not listen, there is nothing more you can do. Learn to 'let go.' Focus on your own life / family.
When people have unlimited (or an abundance of) financial resources, they have a lifestyle that doesn't require sound financial thought processes over the long haul. Then add emotions and psychological behavior / life patterns / and family dynamics . . .
If I were young (as you are) with a family, I would focus on myself and them.
In other words, you do what you can and learn to stop - let go - chips fall where they may. If you do not do this, it will eat you up psychologically / exhaust you / take energy away from your own well being and the quality of time/focus/energy you provide to your husband and family. Do Not do this to yourself.
Acknowledge that you have done what you can. THEN...
Examine what your boundaries are?
Have you considered your personal boundaries?
Do you know what they are?
Make them.
Then wish your mother well as she / brother are making decisions she/he wants to make. You apparently do not have any input that actually matters to the point it can change your mom's situation. We all do what we can and then must realize there is nothing more to do ALTHOUGH you can send her (them/family) healing light, love / good energy / good thoughts. And as you 'send' this to them, be aware to give it to you and your family, too.
You are way way way too young to be in the middle of this. Create moments of memories with your husband and family. You cannot get this time back.
Touch Matters
After being in the 'convince' seat myself.. I likened it to sitting up the back of the bus. Was not allowed to drive. No-one heeded my directions.
I did not like where it was headed.. so eventually I stood up & stepped out.
That bus still travelling slowly along the same path. Despite the issues, the farce of independence remains in place - propped up by others.
What did change was me.
I refocused on my own life.
On it you compare the cost of care in her current place and in two other more affordable care facilities. Include South Dakota for fun. Indicate also a timeline. Show how long her money will last in each place, and to keep it light say, - I would never suggest this but would you believe it I found out that in S.D. the same care is one quarter the cost? Isn't that wild?
Btw, I'm not suggesting S.D. either. It's just to get their attention although I've Googled "Cost of memory care" in different states. It's an eye opener. Quality is another story. I don't know about that.
In a matter of fact manner, (no emotions, no malice), say that in order to be helpful you added below the chart the name of agencies, (addresses and phone numbers too. Include Medicaid), that will come in handy when the time comes, and that preparation is key for an easy transition. You can add that you believe forewarning the current facility about 6 months before total bankruptcy would probably be best, (as you say this turn to the chart and point to the probable date of the forecasted financial collapse). Continue by telling your brother that it would be most helpful for him to start making calls to social services as well at that time.
Bring a cup of cocoa with you and take a sip after your presentation. You're being practical. If you brother tears up your chart. Make an audible breath in and out, shake your head in pity and calmly pick up the torn piece with the contact info, place it on a table and say - at least keep this.
They may or may not heed any chart.
I presume a person with these financial means may not consider the long picture, financially.
This woman has extended herself enough. They do not want to listen.
This is not this daughter's burden to do any charts. This is what an investment professional and/or attorney can do. Gena
Family can hire an outside swallowing specialist to evaluate needs.
If the bed is not raised, this is an issue. Medical staff should know this.
This woman will have more issues that eating/choking concerns.
Touch Matters
If treatment / care not as needed, call OMBUDSMAN. They work with licensing boards for nursing homes. I've been through this for over a year now.
Take good notes. Document (date and time / person on duty / nurse in charge); write emails to administrator and / or director of nursing. Hold them responsible; ask questions. Document everything.
Touch Matters
2. Your mother obviously needs a great deal of care.
3. You are the sane one in the family.
4. Do a bit of research yourself. Find the best place, talk to them --are there even any vacancies, can they deal with her and ALL her health issues, etc. Do they have a policy of keeping patients after they have run out of money?
5. 'Nursing Home" sounds horrible to your mother. It has such a negative connotation. So rephrase it to her so she can still have her dignity. Think on this: she already has been thinking about her future and is scared and angry.
6. Call a family meeting. Go visit on a day when your brother is there. Be persistent. You need to act as a family. Show her some pictures of the BEST place she could move into. Set a date to start packing (right after Thanksgiving?) and a date to move out. Be firm. Be loving.
7. It's not about who is responsible or who is visits the most. Both you and your brother are doing the best you can. You have many responsibilities to your own family and you also have a moral responsibility to your mother.
8. You are a good person.
They will not / have not listened to this young, 36, woman trying.
There is a time to stop - recenter.
The brother and mother have this responsiblity.
The family can hire an investment counselor / a person with long-term health care. They need a professional.
Leave this over-worked daughter alone folks ! Why are so many here making this HER responsibility to 'convince' them . . . when they won't listen to her anyway?
They do not listen to her and she's done all she can. Brother and mother may listen to professionals' advice - certainly in ways they will not listen to this daughter writing us.
Touch Matters
When your mom and brother mention that they wish you do more than you do, you could reply, - "I wish I could too, but my children and family need me more". Maybe you already say this. Maybe you could leave out the word "more" although it is just.
You're doing the right and healthy thing. I'm sorry your mom didn't focus on her kids. I'm glad you're not like her.
You could compliment you mom by telling her that she and her situation have taught you precious lessons to prepare financially and health wise for your own senior years. For good or bad her decisions are valuable lessons to prepare and planfor when your time comes, and what you've learned is something you can teach your children.
Thank her. Tell her you appreciate learning as well, from this period of your lives, how making thoughtful sound decisions may ensure that end of life memories for your children may well still be bitter sweet, they hopefully will not be a strain and chaotic. You hope that good memories will be shared at your bedside, in addition to lot of hugs, caresses and warm loving smiles.
This is something we all should do.
Then, perhaps, you can go visit nursing homes with your brother and then take mom to the best one(s)?
Once that is settled, perhaps a visit with the Elder Law Attorney will put everything in order and you can all coexist in peace.
It's her money. Not yours.
”Not fair to him” — I don’t get that, honestly.
Best wishes.
Several years we all simply gave up trying to help him, b/c, bottom line, he WANTED to be in control of her life. IDK why.
All we other sibs could do was shake out heads and let what was, be.
Brother is only 59 and his health is shot. If he lives 10 more years without changing some major lifestyle choices, he won't be here. A lot of that was due to poor choices and the stress of having mom living with him & his family.
In a way, having mom's care on his plate excused him from having to do more than work PT, sleep 20 hrs a day and eat to the point he's probably 200 lbs overweight. He has a hair trigger temper and nobody wants to deal with that--so, like you, we said our bit and then left him alone.
It's painful when your best intentions and advice are thrown out the door like yesterday's newspaper. I probably felt the failure the most, but all of us felt like he blockaded mom and while he kept her 'safe' she was also housebound & bored. I think she might have died of boredom.
Long story short: you're NOT going to change brother's mind. Don't waste a minute more with him about this. Take care of YOUR family and know that you did your best.
Everyone that gives this kind of advice will be the 1st ones crying when the system goes broke and nobody gets any type of welfare.
Use your money for your care and stop encouraging people to become thieves to get welfare. Sickening!
Run this past your mother's doc but I agree with you. Being immobile and weight gain and no exercise or reason to get up you can get sedentary and atrophy sets in.
Oftentimes, the assisted livings' don't pick up on bedsores. They just see the outside, Mom knows what day it is and has clean clothes on and is eating.
All of places nowadays are short staffed. You have to be very specific in the needs of the elderly. Let's face it, in the Assisted Livings' (in my opinion it is real estate), when the $$$ goes, you go. It's that simple.
With the elderly, a little thing can become a big thing. A UTI going left untreated. It's hard when you can't all agree on "what do we do with Mom?"
The entire country goes through this. Who is the decision maker and you can also change or undo something but usually everything pretty much comes down to $$$ money.
Maybe you could try it with your brother, bring in services, offer to pitch in.
Keep in mind folks, the one does not want to put Mom in a home should not be punished for this. In other words, don't help him and let's see how long this last.
Make it easy on one another. All carry this heart-wrenching burden that it can last years. The elderly are dependent upon us. If everyone pitches in, any way they can, time, $$$, grocery shopping. This thing called "caregiving" is not even Stephen. But when the dust settles we all want to feel we did the right thing.
I know it's hard because both husband and wife are both working today and years ago my mother and aunts were all home so the caregiving was shared. The men worked and the women were the caregivers.
It's different now but you always "undo" things too if you find this is not the solution for your mother's particular healthcare.
I think deep down you are a nice family but just have different opinions on what is best for Mom. You all love her!
2.Move mom in NH and make peace with him not ever speaking to you again ( I mean it’s unfortunate but, his choice).
What ever your decision, keep your sanity😊, don’t overload your plate…because you have to keep yourself mentally and emotionally balanced( and it seems to me your already there) So continue to keep yourself, your hubby& kids emotionally healthy and thriving!
Wishing you the best outcome💕
"Poor planning on your part does not necessitate an emergency on mine".
(This quote from Bob Carter, but also found in slightly different ways by different people).
Basically if you don't agree to the independent living arrangement (or some other floated idea), tell them plainly:
I don't agree with ABC so I won't help with ABC.
This is how I roll now!
There are many situations where it takes a crisis to bring things to a head. A crisis in your brother’s approach is a lot less painful than many of the ‘broken bone’ type crises.
I think it is clear which style you & your brother have!
Not much help to you though..
Is Mom still in charge of lifestyle decisions for herself?
It seems Mom is choosing apartment now then whatever nursing home later. A shortish term view. You have the longer view of choosing a better fit/nicer NH now.
My LO has also chosen apartment now whatever NH in a crises later. I had tried for a long time to find out why. Was it because the current place met every need so well? Fear of change / an unknown place? Or actual cognitive deficits/decline preventing ability to plan. I suspect a combo of all.
What do you think is behind your Mom's decisions?
Unfortunately, you need to step back, become just a visitor with no skin in the game, and let the cards fall where they may. Both your mom and brother have been informed of the realities and they've chosen not to make smart decisions. So be it.
Patathome01
One thing I would highly recommend for that proactive step, get a list of all the resources a broke, ailing mom would need, like meals on wheels for food delivery, DHHS for Medicaid application, paratransit application through the department of transportation, area on aging, etc.
Then when they call and everything has turned to mush you can say, oh, let me send you these resource contacts I have, they will be able to help you out.
Learning to let people make their own choices, good, bad or indifferent is only one-side of that coin. The other side is letting them deal with the consequences of those choices, without it falling to you in any way, shape or form to bail them out.
You already know how they think this will go if it doesn't work, don't go into agreement that you will be bailing either of them out, decide now to say, sorry, here's the resources that can help you with this situation.
Oh and don't let your brother dump on you. He is choosing to do this, that doesn't obligate you to prop him up in any way, not even to listen to his vents about how hard it is.
Choices have consequences and they are both adults that know what they are getting into.
Best of luck saying no, when the call comes! You can do it!