Hospital trying to figure out discharge plan and Dad's trying to get me to help him go home. Any advice?

Thank you for the hug! I took the block off. I was just too tired at the time to sort out the ugly. So much support overall and I'm so thankful. Dad is in the nursing home he doesn't like it but seems to be dealing ok. One day at a time. I know it was the right choice and am going down to help with things I can. Thanks!! You guys are the best!

SmileBeth, I wanted to send you a HUG, but you haven't allowed them. I get it.

So here is a great big sun shining HUG for you!

Have things calmed down a bit? Dad doing better?

Thanks everyone. I won't leave. Just going to take step back. I worded some things wrong. I just meant my dad uses his money not always in the best ways. My brother can't be there because he is in prison, so when my dad tells hospital my brother will be there that's what meant. It would be like my dad paying someone not there. I'm tired, but happy my dad is in the nursing home getting the antiobiotic He needs.

Oh smilebeth that is good news. I will believe with you that this is his wake up call.

Well done sticking to your guns.

It is amazing how conniving old folks can get when they are trying to have there own way. It's like the terrible two all over again.

I really hope that his wound heals, those can be so painful.

Keep up the good work and stick around, if people are inappropriate it is okay to tell them so. Including me!

Smile, you have done Everything right, so don't listen to those who have upset you, and don't leave this forum that may be of some assistance to you in the future in the care of your Dad.

As With a lot of Stubborn Seniors, there is only so much you can do, unless you have obtained Guardianship. Remember, opinions are like Azzh**es, Everybody has one!

Hopefully this is the next step in getting his Medical team see that his living alone is not in his best interest, every step we take in the care of our parents is a learning experience, and along the way, it opens up opportunities to get him appropriation care, so keep speaking out, and taking names! You can only do the best you can, and you have done so! Take Care!

I feel like most are supportive even if it's hard stuff I need to hear but there have been a few that are just upsetting and mean to me and I don't need it right now. I will reach out to admin thank you.

A while back families pushed to be able to bring sick family members home, and that family member be "trained" to provide care that otherwise had to be done by an RN with an MD on staff. Proof of high rates of Hospital Borne illnesses got the Hospital Community on board, and laws were changed for the benefit of patients and families who desired it. Now Insurance Companies and many Doctors expect patients to have family or friends availabilile and willing to do what other certified home health can't! Don't put yourself in that position!

1) Meet with staff and doctor and say you wish to "stage" agreement to be with him, but then have staff or doctor say his needs are now beyond your abilities.
2) Put on the "staged" show in front of your dad.
3) Start working with insurance and state agencies to get night or 24/7 care when he is released from Rehab Facility...vs Standard Nursing Home.
I was approved ( in Iowa) for Medicaide Waiver In Home Services in April. It took until September for the meeting to determine my needs, which is also determined by their budget. What I get is 4 hours a week and on call RN who asks if I need an ambulance. There is no actual on call nursing available.
You need to save your time for when he is ready to come home, as he will need you then.

Is there a way to take my post down?

"My dad does qualify for help. He uses the program to pay my brother who doesn't live or work for him."

and then

"My brother who My dad pays is in prison. Made bad choices with drugs. That is what I try to get across its not just a simple situation with My dad on anything."

Your father is paying your brother, who is in prison??? I take it this program your father qualifies for is paid for by the taxpayers? So the taxpayers are paying your brother in prison?

Sounds like fraud to me.

My brother who My dad pays is in prison. Made bad choices with drugs. That is what I try to get across its not just a simple situation with My dad on anything. I find me out in the few weeks i haven't been down he bouguy a really good deal truck. While he knew he had this sore and should be getting help. My dad has been moved to a nursing home for rehab!! He is frustrated because he couldn't get me or my aunt or anyone to do what he wanted. My aunt and I talked Friday and were on the same page with things. I'm praying my dad will get settled and this will be his wake up call he can't do this living at home so poorly. I will go help with things and visit. I'm so thankful he is not at home without care. Thanks for your support!

I'm seeing more and more stories here (and I've dealt with it too) that discharge planners are NOT doing their jobs and seem to pressure family members into totally upending their lives to take care of their loved ones. They think NOTHING of telling you that you need to take weeks/months off your job and go take care of your father. They need to hammer him with the fact that he needs to go stay at a facility until his wound is healed. Maybe they can get him off cigarettes while he is there, which would probably help him to heal faster.

DO NOT take this on yourself.

Your father is paying your brother? Then brother needs to be the one to man up and live with his father and learn how to take care of the IV. But that's not going to happen, is it?

You have done your homework, and there are no nurses available to come and change the IV. And no one is there 24/7, which is what is needed now, correct?

Do NOT...repeat DO NOT become trained to do ANY of this care. Because then you will end up being totally responsible. We have seen caregivers end up quitting their jobs over and over to take care of a parent. They thought they had no choice. Or they thought it would be just for a brief period of time.

But there IS a choice here. Your father needs to be in a facility to get the care he needs. End of discussion. Do not participate in ANY way if he somehow finagles going home. Do NOT learn how to do any of the IV care. If he insists that your brother lives with him, then you say that is it your brother who needs to learn to do the IV care. NOT YOU.

The best care for your father is going to occur is if you do NOT participate at all in that care.

Ps cherrysoda that was ugly and I don't appreciate you saying get off my butt. You have no idea how many calls and effort I've put into things over the years and now.

I appreciate your thoughts and letting me vent. It's hard to put all the info of what is going on. My dad does qualify for help. He uses the program to pay my brother who doest live or work for him. He has ran off any decent help. Smokes in his house. I quit my job and moved and did caregiving for years after working another full time job on top of it. The agency that came for wound care finally after he finally called the doctor before he went to hospital explained its seriousness. That is why he went. We went through this with a heel wound, but was able to get it healed with wound care at home. I did take a picture and show him in the hospital. He knows he waited too long to get care. The agency doesn't have the staff or any others we checked to do the IV every day. That is where they would train me. Problem is i live and work 100 miles away. He has to have IV every day same time it risk bone infection for 4-6 weeks. I am not lying to the hosoital and the agency. I've tried to find a traveling nurse, places ad for help before this and again now. I talked with the wound agency and it was a good convo. He has burned bridges with other agencies. It will effect their license and the ability to help in future if I'm not up front with them. I'm trying to do the best I can and talk with all to help my dad. I'm sorry if anyone things im not a good daughter or caregiver I don't need you to judge me when you don't know the whole story.

It's the hospital's care decision upon being released. If no one is at home to care for his medical needs, they will NEVER send him home. Typically, they send the patient to the rehab unit of a Nursing Home. If he's on Medicare, the hospital will have to secure a Medicare bed in the NH before discharging him.

Have you taken photos of the sore? if he can't see it, he may not understand just how bad things are. At least show him some pictures, it might help a bit.

I just went through this with my 95 year old dad in November. Doctors said he wasn't capable of living alone because of cognitive impairment. He ended up in the hospital because he lost his antibiotics and ended up with a septic UTI. He wasn't eating so was down to 125 pounds which is something for a man who was a fit 165 in his prime.

I live 70 miles away. He lived in a small town in rural Montana with no help available. Over the years, he fought every suggestion to go into assisted living or even to move closer to me so I could get him help. Sadly, he tried to escape the hospital which put him into an entirely different category because the social workers got involved. He was considered a high risk of escaping so I was told he needed to go into a secure facility which put him directly into memory care with nursing help. They weren't going to let me do anything else. If I had tried to take him home, as he begged me to, I would have found myself explaining things to adult protective services.

That is the 500 lb gorilla in the room. Adult protective services will hold the caregiver responsible if they put or leave a vulnerable elder in a hazardous situation. It is considered abuse and neglect. The penalties for elder abuse are severe folks - including heavy fines and/or prison time!

Never allow anyone to pressure you to lie. Brother doesn't live with your dad and to say so puts you in legal jeopardy. I'm 62 years old and I can honestly say I don't want to start my senior years in prison!

My Dad hates me at this point but he is safe and is being cared for. That is what matters in the end.

I just went through this with my 95 year old dad in November. Doctors said he wasn't capable of living alone because of cognitive impairment. He ended up in the hospital because he lost his antibiotics and ended up with a septic UTI. He wasn't eating so was down to 125 pounds which is something for a man who was a fit 165 in his prime.

I live 70 miles away. He lived in a small town in rural Montana with no help available. Over the years, he fought every suggestion to go into assisted living or even to move closer to me so I could get him help. Sadly, he tried to escape the hospital which put him into an entirely different category because the social workers got involved. He was considered a high risk of escaping so I was told he needed to go into a secure facility which put him directly into memory care with nursing help. They weren't going to let me do anything else. If I had tried to take him home, as he begged me to, I would have found myself explaining things to adult protective services.

That is the 500 lb gorilla in the room. Adult protective services will hold the caregiver responsible if they put or leave a vulnerable elder in a hazardous situation. It is considered abuse and neglect. The penalties for elder abuse are severe folks - including heavy fines and/or prison time!

Never allow anyone to pressure you to lie. Brother doesn't live with your dad and to say so puts you in legal jeopardy. I'm 62 years old and I can honestly say I don't want to start my senior years in prison!

My Dad hates me at this point but he is safe and is being cared for. That is what matters in the end.

I am SURE you can get, through his insurance some sort of home heath care/nurse that will come into his home and do this.

Rehabs are a great place to pick up the nasties like c-diff and mrsa and he is right, with care on this IV he would be MUCH better off and have a faster recovery at home.

If the insurance covers it, or you have the funds, hire someone, have the hosp. direct you to a nursing agency that can do it. That way, you are happy, he is happy and he get's well. I think at a certain age, we know our bodies better than anyone else does. Give him a chance to get a RN or just get off your butt and get one for him, then all the problems are solved, at least for this round.

I didn't discuss it with Dad or Mom, I just arranged for transfer onto rehab. They were both upset that he wasn't coming straight home from the hospital but the therapists got him walking, talking and eating some foods again. He had 2 more months with Mom and the end wasn't abrupt or traumatic. If your dad hasn't got sense enough to take care of himself he needs a SNF until he is well enough to be alone. Also, plan on this happening again. Since he is a smoker and presumably diabetic you can also plan on a stroke. What will you do with him then? Don't be nice about this. It's YOUR life we are talking about here! You get to call the shots unless you want to walk away. Your parent's generation didn't care for people this old; their parents died younger and more cognitively intact.

As others have said, no. Just no. Do not enable him in his "plans". He will need the extra care to heal and if you "agree" to having him come home and care for him, but do/can not, consider the legal if not moral and/or emotional complications if something goes wrong! Less guilt in sticking to your guns and refusing to let him guilt you into lying for him!

Not sure how this "doctor" thinks the outpatient visits will work. Clearly he did not get his butt in to have this treated before it became a bigger issue, so it isn't likely he will comply with these outpatient visits. Have you told this doctor that he is most likely not to comply? If doctor is made to understand this, he might change his mind. It would make him complicit if anything happens as he recommended it!!!

Your instinct not to lie and cover for him is dead on. Even if you could be there for 6 weeks and you can't, it might be asking too much of you to take on that responsibility. While you can be trained, yes, it isn't for everybody dealing with an IV and changing an IV bag, dealing with wound care (even though a nurse will come) aren't simple for everyone. Some of us are designed for that sort of thing and not for technology and some of us can do anything technical but can't handle medical stuff (just an example) but most importantly from what I am hearing is your dad is very likely to give you a hard time, not do the things he needs to protect and care for the IV site, bag etc. Back in the day (your dad lived then) a patient would never have been allowed to go home with an IV in their arm or probably the sore still at the stage it is on his back, this has been driven by insurance and while I'm not saying it isn't a good idea in many cases my gut says it isn't in your fathers case, at least not yet. Having responded to many a call for a patient sent home too soon or with a family member who wasn't really prepared to care for them or recognize when they needed more medical attention (or the opposite) I can say the system suffers and so do patients and families when people "fib" to work the system and insurance companies push people out too soon. But back to your situation, you are right and I would go heavier on telling dad that if you do what he is asking and something does happen you will loose the ability to help facilitate things the way in he wants in the future, the state (or whoever the "over seeing" organization he recognizes is) will come in and take control of his safety and well being and the easiest thing for them is to dump him in the easiest least expensive NH they can. A better plan is to look at this as the next step in hospital rehab. What is happening is he doesn't need the same skilled attention this hospital provides but he still needs full time skilled attention so the choices are hiring a full time qualified person to attend to IV's at his expense (Medicare isn't going to pay for this) or go to rehab which is what most people do. When he no longer needs the IV and the sore is healed enough and he passes all the milestones he can go back home (or some would go to AL, NH...) with a visiting Nurse coming to check on him and attend to the dressing. The assessments as to when he is ready or each step is made by the hospital and then rehab. They are responsible for making sure he is moving on to a situation that is safe and healthy and fills whatever needs are listed for his release from their facility, that's what the hospital is doing now and covering for him, fibbing about what is and isn't available only serves to hurt both of you in the future and could even hurt you legally not to mention emotionally. Let him know it isn't fair for him to put you in this position, you know you can't fulfill the requirements and they are set for a reason, if no one is there and the line get's infected or s can happen (it did to me) the catheter moves and the fluid starts infiltrating his arm rather than flowing through his vascular system or his wound opens up (he can't see it) and it doesn't get caught until the nurse comes in a day or two later he is going to end up back in the hospital, you are going to feel responsible and who knows if he is ever going to have the option to go home, you certainly aren't going to be accepted as a reliable opinion or caregiver and that will stay with his chart the rest of his life. Is moving to a knew facility for a few weeks worth all of that? I'm talking to him through you here, I think you already know where you stand on it and your instinct is right on. I also know however how hard it is to stick to when you have so much push back, it's likely not the last time or thing you will get pushback on so pick your battles but I for one agree and support you, this is one to pick.

Please, do not consider taking this on. A little white lie might be in order. Tell the hospital you aren’t eligible for any more leave at this time, due to your own personal use of leave previously. They cannot question you further, it’s your privacy they would be violating if questioning you, asking what was the leave for? What surgery? Just tell them the exact same announcement you previously, at this time I am ineligible for family leave from my job. If Dad asks, that’s all he needs to know. Same announcement, maybe throw in that you didn’t want to worry him. You are the adult here, and if this is how you have to handle it, so be it. Hospital wouldn’t be able to pressure you further to care for him, once they know that door is closed.
As for going to be trained, helping for a week or two, absolutely don’t do it. They will force you to stay the course, regardless of how it impacts your life. Do not. Do. It.

Went through something similar with mom and it was unmanageable at home. We had to hire a 24/7 live in. Don’t lie but work out a good plan before he gets released so it doesn’t turn into a difficult situation that falls on you. If he can afford to hire people then set them up so they are at his home before he leaves not after. Hope this helps.

"The one agency can train me to do the IV bag replacement but they want my guarantee I will be there 24/7 or close 30 mins away. (I live in Laramie 100miles away) I explained I can take some time off but not 4-6 weeks. "

Be very careful. How much is "some time off"? We've seen it happen so many times that the caregiver ends up quitting their job to move in and take care of the elder.

Don't be trained to do anything, and none of this can happen. Your father needs to be in a skilled facility to take care of his health. Don't even step in briefly to do caregiving.

My FIL was like that. So...so...stubborn. He would get kicked out of every rehab he had to go to after a hospital stay. We ran out of ones he could go to(we live in Atlanta.) Finally, just had to hire someone to stay w him at home. Stay strong in your feelings. You are the one that has to live w decisions when all is done.

The hospital will not let Dad go alone unless there is someone there who is skilled enough to care for him. You sound as though it isn't you and being you are Emotionally drained, You all need to get on the same page and even perhaps involve the Hospital Social Worker with a plan now.

Oh, the bad decisions we can make out of weakness.... Take some deep breaths, go somewhere to clear your mind (even if it just means going for walk or taking a hot bath), We need to be mentally and emotionally stronger when we make tough decisions.

We get to the point where we have to become the parent to the elder.  My aunt wanted to go home, and ER was going to release her. I said No, she's worse now than 2days ago, in ER . I am not with her round the clock. She'll be passed out again and back here. They kept her for observation, and finally saw what I've been seeing.  She's still in hospital, going to rehab tomorrow. She doesn't know that yet. Not looking forward to telling her, but it has to be. Good luck making thru right decision for your father.

As always, the most important thing is for your father to have the care that he needs. You cannot provide 24/7 care in your home. He needs to go to a rehab. Yes, he's stubborn and he doesn't want to go. No one wants to admit that things are going downhill and they are losing their independence. You just have to come up with a sentence that you repeat, such as, "Dad, we have to do what's best and right now, etc etc." You'll fill in the details for your situation.
Nope, no lying to agencies about who is in the house. The only trouble you'll get in is when there is an emergency and no one is there to assist him. He is not going to check himself in or get the help he needs, and btw, that wound sounds awful. OF COURSE he needs help to make sure it heals.
You are in charge now, and you are the one who has to make the best decisions. It's no longer open for discussion!