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Just tell them it is not safe for her at your house
So now the question is - is it HER propperty? Or yours? If yours - legally, you would have to find a way to evict her - legally. I stress legally.
If it's her property - then perhaps you should move and let her back into her own house and let the chips fall where they may. IF your mom is still considered 'competent' . . she could evict you if she wanted (I'm not saying that would happen - but just to illustrate my point of residency)
You don't say if you have POA, Guardianship? or if there is a living trust involved - or whatever.
Perhaps its time to HIRE a caregiver?
For the sake of Hospital discharge . keep in mind -who REALLY has the right to live there (whether it's safe for her or not).
My mom lives in her house (totally unsafe for her to continue to live there) - but its her house. And I have no control over her at this point in our lives. I'm sure there will be a day I will be able to get control and move her to a safer and more financially feasible situation. But we're not there yet. Probably need a handful of more trips to ER and such - could be months . .could be years. She is 89, and a very stubborn and determined 89 at that. The LTC she was in discharged her a couple weeks ago - but they made her arrange for 24/7 caregiving in order to let her back into her own house.
It's possible the hospital sees YOU as the official caregiver and - I do believe they have a right to discharge her to her own home/residence of 14 years and you have been there as her caregiver for 14 years.
If you don't accept her - she can get you for elder abuse I bet. Just sayin. Watch out.
I think it is a great time to go on vacation, at least until you can speak with an attorney Feb. 27. If the sheriff comes and no one answers the door, I guess they will have to return her to the hospital. It is my understanding that in my state folk do not qualify for medicaid if they are going to remain at home and they make over a certain amount of money but if they require a facility for care this does not apply if the cost of the facility is more than their monthly income. However, if they have assets (cash, vehicle, a house) over $2,000 they have to spend down to qualify for medicaid. It is amazing how family members are required to care for the elderly or be charged with elderly abuse but the elderly don't have to do anything that they don't want to do because they have rights. I hope that this works out well for you.
If she is “going after” your minor child, it sounds like she is a danger to herself and/or others.
Your child is entitled to a safe environment and it seems that you could be held liable for not providing that safe environment.
You and your husband should also be entitled to a safe environment.
If so, the hospital have no medical reasons to do other than return her to her pre-admission home. So the duty of care belongs to you.
If she is significantly worse that is different - the hospital have duty of care.
If it's time that Mom left your house (you sound like you are done & I get that) then take this on & get the advice you need to make it happen. That may be legal advice, financial advice, medical assessments & an elder care specialist to help locate the appropriate residence.
You could be overwhelmed (understandable!). Try not to panic, just research who can help you get to the end goal of Mother being cared for professionally. Best of luck.
You keep saying...
She has dementia WITH behaviors (this is a medical term that should indicate to anyone who works in geriatrics, etc that the dementia has a danger component to it) that are escalating. Not only would she not be safe in YOUR home, you do not feel safe. As much as you love her, you cannot allow someone to come back in who has demonstrated such aggression to your child. And then go up the hospital food chain... say you have put a call in to an attorney as this staff member appears to be trying to strong arm you. Tell the next level up that you have told this person repeatedly that you will not accept responsibility for someone who needs far more care than you can provide because it would be unsafe for your mother, that you have made it clear that you can no longer continue to have the patient stay with you because of the DANGER they present to your MINOR children. That no one will be allowed to force their way into your home... you have been kindly allowing her to stay there, but between her increased needs and aggression to you and your minor children, it is no longer an option.
I might throw in that you are concerned that this facility may not realize it has employees that are possibly not trained well enough for their positions to be able to engage and assist their patients without resorting to threats. That could leave the hospital very vulnerable to lawsuits.
You would much prefer to work with the hospital (they through their contacts) to help get your mother settled into an APPROPRIATE environment. This should not be something they are unequipped to help with.
After you have been firm, reiterate that you both have the same goal, that mother is discharged to an appropriate environment that is safe for her and those around her. How do we work toward that goal?
You want to look reasonable, logical and calm to the hospital, the sheriff and the attorney you end up using. The hospital should be in a defensive position, not you.
The eviction type thing could be an issue, but keep reinforcing unsafe discharge and danger to minors. And keep your house unavailable to anyone trying to bring her back to stay with you.
I hope someone responds with more firsthand knowledge... I just wanted to throw out some language that might get results for you BEFORE something major happens. Best wishes.
It sounds like you need to talk to the social worker on her floor to begin the process of entering your mother into a Skilled Nursing Facility. Which could result in a discharge directly into a SNF, nursing home
You will need to Liquidate her assets to pay for the SNF. You goal is to work with a social worker to locate a Skilled nursing Facility for your mother; the SNF will send someone to meet with your mother at the hospital, and you can visit, the facility. For future considerations try to choose a Medicaid facility, eventually she will run out of funds, and will need Medicaid, which is technically how everyone ends-up, in the U.S.
At this point you must clarify that your home is an "unsafe discharge," therefore you need to start, now.
We had an out-of-state family arrange the discharge of a 49 yr old pt., into a SNF. The mother of the pt. was in constant contact with the social worker on the 4th Floor (acute care floor), the mother refused to visit the patient., during the 5-week hospitalization . Nobody in that family appeared in the hospital, the patient., had a lot of friends visit, but zero family. It was a awful situation to witness.
OR, you can pay for Home Based Care Services, which equates to your mother being discharged back into your home. HBCS are services advertised on television as alternatives to Skilled Nursing Facilities. You have options.
I am so sorry that you are struggling with this situation. A friend of mine recently died. He had colon cancer and a stroke. He was being treated for his cancer. He had a stroke, was very confused afterwards and wrecked his car. Poor guy did not even realize he had been in an accident.
He was single with no living relatives except for a nephew that he didn’t have a relationship with. Anyway, he was supposed to meet us one night at a mutual friend’s house and didn’t show up. It was very unlike him not to meet us so we went to his apartment to check on him. He was disoriented and we called 911 to take him to the hospital.
The hospital ran test and we learned about him having a stroke. He told the doctor to communicate with us because he had no family. We had access to his medical records.
His doctor said he could not live alone ever again, no more treatment for cancer, and pressured us to become his POA, we refused not wanting the responsibility.
He knew that he could not come live with us. We told his doctor there was no one for him to live with and he needed to be in a nursing home. They admitted him in the home. He died about two weeks later.
I wonder if that would happen in your case, if no one will accept her then they will not have a choice but to find placement. My friend was already on Medicaid. There was no spending down for him.
I would tell them that she isn’t able to be left alone and you are not available to house her any longer. Sad but true. Tough spot for you. I would do all that I could to avoid her coming back to my house.
Does she have a key to your home? You could change the locks if she does. Someone suggested that you go on a trip. Why not? Yes, inconvenient but might not be a bad idea. Even checking into a local hotel for awhile if you have to, or one of those extended stay places that are available.
My friend who is a nurse says they send patients home in a taxi all the time. I have not heard of a sheriff escorting someone.
Go slow on this. Think things through. Only YOU know all of the pieces of the puzzle. With that said:
Your mom is her own person - that is if you don't have guardianship. Even with POA - you are in a sticky spot.
Unsafe discharge?? Really?
Let's look at 'Reasonable Expectation'. Your mom has a reasonable expectation at this point that YOU are her caregiver - you have been for 14 years. She also has a reasonable expectation that she live/resides legally under your roof. That is a reasonable expectation. Your HOME has been HER home for 14 years. Techinicaly she is a tenant under your roof. You just can't throw her out in a matter of one hospital stay if she recovers ok. Hard pill to swallow eh? I'm sure that is why the Hospital is ok with discharge with the sheriff in tow. They know what her reasonable expectation is and HER legal standing. Don't think for one second that they don't have a lawyer weighing this out. (don't forget . . you're mom tells all with the docs and nurses!)
Think again with 'unsafe discharge'. Your mom is depending on you. She has been for the last 14 years. You're going to shut her down - just like that! ? The hospital is seeing - safe discharge - been that way for 14 years.
so. .
Put yourself in her shoes. Then try and work together and get a solution that works for the family.
Yeah right. Easier said then done.
I'm not siding with your mom or you. I'm simply pointing out you need to be careful how you proceed with HER LIFE while protecting you and your family at the same time.
It's clear that she needs to be in AL or MC or whatever - Send her there, with love and dignity, or force . . .but do it legally.
I take your dilemma seriously and to heart. If it were me . .I would try and keep the sheriff and the hospital's lawyers out of it. Get with your lawyer - find a way to move her out of your home and into a safer nurturing place that she can call her 'new home'.
Just my opinion of course. Good Luck.
It will work out, one way or the other.
I feel your pain! I cared for my my mom for 15 years in my house and I would never want to go through that again. It’s too difficult. It doesn’t mean that you don’t care. We can look for other arrangements for their care. It only means that extensive care by one person wears us out! We become exhausted and burn out. How can we care for others if we are spent!
"I have violent videos of her going after my youngest daughter swinging household objects at her. If this continues I feel as though I will have a heart attack or stroke."
YOU and YOUR family matter here. You very well COULD have a heart attack or stroke, with untreated high bp. PLEASE refuse to take her back to your home. Make sure the hospital knows what she did to your child.
And please keep us updated!!! I wish you had your appointment with the attorney before 2/27.
Not just any attorney. Call and elder law attorney now, you need help now this is an emergency.
https://nelf.org
Elder Law foundation.
Unfortunately, these types of situations are becoming increasingly common. There was a story this week that a N.C. NH discharged an elderly man with only 25 mins notice to his daughter due to nonpayment by insurance. They called her and told her to pick him up in 25 minutes. She was at work and unable to leave and explained that it was not possible. So, the NH arranged for wheelchair transport which left the disabled senior in front of her house. She found him crying and screaming and soaking wet from a passing storm upon her return home. They never notified her that they were transporting him. The medical system hasn’t been about people or caring for a long time. The best way to protect yourself is to have a lawyer because finding someone to help or intervene on your behalf is nearly impossible.
In the eyes of the law, your home is her home. She has had legal tenancy for over a decade. Worst case scenario, she returns...any time she is violent or displays a threat to herself or you and your family, call 911. Get video of each episode. It is possible to have her removed from the home for an involuntary psych admission. At that point you may have more leverage in refusing her return.
In my case, I had a very similar experience with my aunt with dementia. She lived in my home with my children and I but became increasingly angry and violent. One day she struck my daughter. I contacted every NH within 30 miles and was fortunate enough to find one that would take her. She was out of my house within 24 hrs. I packed some things and delivered her myself. The attorney was able to get her on Medicaid through legal spend down of assets, etc. It was awful so I appreciate what you’re experiencing. No one else in the family would step up and they in fact, made it more difficult.
Sending you strength and courage to get through this. Keep us updated.
I would call that person, and tell them you are recording the call (and do so). State the date, your name, your mother's name, the name of the hospital and ask that person to state their name. Inform that a copy of the recording will be going to your lawyers office.
Then proceed to tell them your mother can not be safely discharged to your home and that she has been violent in your home. Any push back and just state again- this is not a safe discharge to my residence at (say your address) for (mother's name).
If they keep pushing, repeat above and then say that is all you have to say and end the call.
See if that changes anything.