Have you noticed that most guilty, self-criticizing caregivers are women? Most of the loving replies are also from women.

I am giving you a hug in return.

I joined the forum today so I have no experience with what happened on here before.

But I would like to share my "real world" experience off the site so far....

Men and Women, BOTH EQUALLY, assume I am a loser because I have decided to be a caregiver for my parents. I am supposed to be out in the wild, bustin' up the world makin' cash and bendin' upside drawin' the honey pot arm candy crown circuit beauty queen.

A guy who "sacrifices" anything to actually care about something other than themselves is tagged a total loser by women and men alike.

My experience does not change yours. But I respectfully ask that we can talk about our experiences. I am not trying to negate any of your feelings. But I think guys who are care givers are people too. I'm just asking that you not forget my contribution as a guy caregiver.

I hear you loud and clear. You said that so very well. I hope everyone reads your posts.

We can sum it up by saying caregivers have the toughest job on earth, right? Who on earth does it perfectly all the time? Absolutely no one.

I never even knew the term ‘FOG’ (Fear, obligation and guilt) before I joined this forum and believe me that fit me to a T! I had a lot of work to do on myself. With help from this forum and a therapist I made it.

To hear unfair criticism on top of an already stressful situation is absolutely horrible. No one deserves that.

Sometimes hurting people hurt others and all we can do is wish them well and hope that they see the light one day.

All of us has at some point in our lives said things that we didn’t really mean. Eh, we all have bad days every now and then. It’s easy to forgive someone having a bad day.

Other people are insecure and build themselves up by knocking people down and sadly there are people who are plain evil. It’s a waste of time to even try to rationalize with them. Then there are the run of the mill trolls.

Many, many people are compassionate and respectful. Fortunately, most people would rather be helpful than unkind.

It could be because most of us are in our 50s to 70s and were on the whole not brought up to have (or admit to having) a good opinion of ourselves - my parents acted as though what they called 'showing off' was the most awful behaviour a child could show - and it seems to have been drummed into girls more than boys. Also, we were supposed to be more domesticated than they were - a laugh as my brother is happier in a kitchen than I ever was!

I'm not saying men don't care; my own sons are very loving and caring towards me. I just think it's a generational thing mostly. I think I succeeded in bringing my daughter up to feel of equal value to her brothers without having to prove it.

I agree! Thank you for this post.

Fact is, men “fail” sooner than women, so women are more often the “capable” partner and thus left with the caregiving.

I think the hardest lesson for ANY caregiver to learn is that you don’t always have options that will lead to the happy ending, and there are times when the very best you can do isn’t really that great. Once you’ve accepted that, it’s easier to develop a sense of the realities of your situation. And THAT can hopefully reveal that “guilt” is wasted energy.

Old age is NOT for sissies, and caregiving sure isn’t for sissies either.

Blessings! We ALL KNOW WHO WE ARE!

Isn't that the truth. So many "Questions" posted today seem to me belonging under "discussion" because this is such an interesting discussion to have. We see so often the same words over and over again, often so wrongly used. We speak over and over about guilt. Guilt as a work means we have done something awful with malice aforethought, and now have come with self-knowledge seeking redemption. It is so misused on this forum. We have NOT done knowing evil. We have come straight up against our own human limitations, and not one person posting or answering on forum has not experienced this. We are in GRIEF, not guilt. We grieve the suffering and loss of the elders we love (or care for despite having little love), knowing the indignity they suffers, losses of body, of mind, of self control. We grieve our inability to make it better.
I think those who do the best are those that have an ironical humor that seeps through about the ways in which we "lose it". I recall my friend Arnie telling me of having to try to collect a clean catch urine from her Mom, who was totally unable to cooperate. There was Mom on the toilet. There was Arnie squatting on the floor in front of her with the cup in hand, realizing it was actually her birthday. Realizing it in the middle of the day. She said that she was so gone that she started muttering "Happy Birthday to youuuuu, Happy Birthday tooo youuuu....." At which point her Mom said "Oh, Dear! Is it my BIRTHDAY! I completely forgot".
You mention the hurt, anger, our lack of self-compassion. But there is also the humor, the courage. The outright heroism I see here gives me hope to go on. Not in caring for someone. I spent my life as a nurse and knew early on I could never do 24/7 hands on care. But the courage just to go on with life, its sadness, and its joy.

This is a great posting. There is nothing like getting older to know what life is all about. Many of us felt like we knew everything in our youth. I have a totally different perspective as I age. I will turn 65 in October. Wisdom does come with lifetime experiences.

It’s interesting now that so many people are living longer and seniors are taking care of other seniors, either parents, godparents, aunts or uncles or siblings, etc.

My husband’s great grandmother lived to be just shy of 102! Fortunately, she really didn’t have any major health issues.

She lived with her daughter and would get mad because her daughter did not allow her to lift the heavy cast iron pots to cook a family meal.

She weighed 92 lbs and her daughter was afraid that she would hurt herself. It was hard for her not to continue doing as she always did.

The woman raised 12 children. They kept busy all of their lives. I don’t think she knew how to slow down. She had a very positive outlook on life.

She was dancing to the band that we hired for her 100th birthday party! She didn’t use a cane or walker. She knew every guest that attended her party.

She had all of her faculties. If only we could all age as she did. She simply died of old age.

It’s still hard being a caregiver in all cases but when people have to care for those who do have major health issues then it is a whole other ball game. The stress and burden can become unbearable.

Interesting observation. I think women are, so to speak, "born" nurturers, so when they think their care isn't enough, they self criticize, feel guilty. Men, on the other hand, feel more of a sense of relief when, let's say they have to place their spouse in a facility. Nurturing is not one of their strong points. Some of us (yup, I said us), do feel some guilt but my sense of relief was much stronger than any guilt. The emotion I feel most is lonliness.

I facilitate 3 different dementia support groups. Knowing that women develop AD more then men, I expected to see more men caregivers in my meetings than women. Nope! 90% of the attendees are women. When men do show up, they come with their daughters. I also speak to groups about my and my wife's experience with AD and, there too, it's women who show up.

There was a posting several months ago by a gentleman whose advice to the rest of us was essentially to suck it up, quit whinning and do what you're suppose to do. I was PO'd. I'm waiting for his follow up posting saying he's at wits end, what can he do.

Great discusion. As a past caregiver, I'm still learning a lot from this forum. Thx.

We will beat ourselves up less when we are more realistic about our expectations and take better care of ourselves.

Hugs to you too!

I have wondered about the mindset behind caregiving. Often on the forum, we see caregivers asking - in some cases screaming - for help. Many (most?) feel as if they have no choice but to continue in whatever situation they're in. And then we see the same advice - you're not stuck, you have choices, the choices you have might be bad or worse, but there are choices. And then, inevitably, the question "Are you doing this (whatever the bad situation is) out of fear, obligation or guilt?".

Guilt plays a big part in it. I often feel guilty , although I know I have nothing to feel guilty about. I always feel badly for people who are being driven by guilt to do the caregiving they don't want to do. Easy to say "don't feel guilty". However, if you are someone who struggles with guilt, that's not an easy thing to do.

For myself, I don't feel guilty if someone is trying to manipulate me into feeling that way. I had a grandmother who tried that for my entire childhood (she did it to all of us); after a while, you start to develop "guilt antibodies" as I call it. If you're lucky, you can recognize the signs that someone is trying to manipulate you with it, and you can take steps to counter it. BUT (and this is a biggie) I still feel guilt that I manufacture myself. Logically, I know I can't be perfect...I can't be all things to all people...I can't take everyone's problems and solve them...but that is logical thinking. And guilt is not always, or even usually, logical. It's something I'm working on, all the time. But no one ever gives you a tutorial on how to overcome guilt. I know you can seek counseling, but many people who are caregiving just don't have the time - or the desire - to sit in yet ANOTHER doctor's office, ANOTHER medical appointment, etc. If you have some free time, you might much rather take a nap. And not everyone has the funds to be able to seek counseling, either.

This forum, for me anyway, has been such a big help. I have learned so much from reading the posts here, and I have gotten such comfort from many of you, even from posts that are other peoples'! It helps, really, to know you're not alone, that the feelings you have towards caregiving are normal, that you're not an evil person because you get angry, etc. that it's ok to want a life, to long for things you used to be able to do and can't anymore. That it's OK to say "no". That was a big one for me. I have to remind myself of this one every once in a while.

I appreciate all the help I've received here, and I try to "pay it forward". So thank you all!

I retired about a month before my 61st birthday, which was about a year and half earlier than I was planning. No one criticized me for this. and in fact most were openly supportive. I was living about 500 miles away from my parents, and visiting once a month obviously wasn't going to get the job done. A very kind neighbor was helping my father, but it was getting to the point at which he was needing more than just minimal attention, and was starting to get to be too much for her (she said that one day she spent six hours with him!). My mother was already in a nursing home (AL would have been sufficient, but this wasn't available in that rather isolated area), and something would have had to be done to provide care for my father. My parents had an estate they wanted my sister and me to inherit, and private pay in a nursing home (especially for two) would cost several times what I was earning, so it simply didn't make financial sense for me to continue working the additional year and a half. I was able to keep my father out of the nursing home for a while, and I enjoyed taking care of him, and he was very thankful. We moved to my sister's area where we had them in an apartment, but that only lasted so long because out father's condition had declined by then, and our mother couldn't seem to learn anything new to enable her to adjust to the change. Although they both soon ended up in another nursing home (which was both more convenient for both of us to visit and also less expensive because there was competition in that area), I had that much more time with both of them (visiting each evening to help feed them dinner), and got to help take care of my father the last months of his life which I would have missed had I still been working.

In short, I haven't encountered anyone who criticized me or considered me a "loser" for having done this (in fact, I sometimes receive very positive comments), but perhaps this is partly because I was approaching retirement anyway. In any case, I just feel I did what was the most reasonable thing to do, given the circumstances. I've visited my old work place, and they have tried to get me to come back, but basically I've "been there, done that" so now I just consult. My parents are both gone now, so I'm just hoping to get on with my life.

((hug)) I don't know when what you described will happen. I do know that being a caregiver doesn't encompass only the one cared for with severe medical issues *Spouse* but lately it's come to involve a friend. I feel I ought to "fix" her.

Friend is actually Daughter-of-a-Friend; the family is spread from MI to CA to VA, with DOAF's marriage disintegrating after 3 months of actual, you know, living together. I pity her and don't fully want to cut her off; the issue is that she is 95 percent sure to ask to live with me again and the rooms are all rented.

Example: When Friend surfed her possessions in front of me and C. to find a good outfit to wear to her interview, she said, "I don't know how much longer I can stay at the shelter, I don't know where I'll go ... "

Friend cannot hold a job. She will be 35 in November. She has no car; C., who is an employee of the Salvation Army shelter where Friend lives 15 miles away, drove her here on C.'s day off, a kind gesture, so Friend could pick up some clothes and prep for a job interview at a pizza place. She got the job.

Friend is a train wreck and I say this after hearing her plans for the ~Future many, many times. She is sweet and endearing. I used to work in the front office of a sheltered workshop with about one third of the clients living with family, one third in halfway houses, and one third homeless. They easily outthink me in terms of manipulation. They are smart in ways that I am not. I have known her since she was 14 and it's inescapable that I think of her as "one of mine."

I know two men my age pretty well that live with their moms and are their primary caretakers. (I belong to a 12-step group, and that's where I know them from.) I've never discussed the emotional aspects of caregiving with either, although they know I'm PCr as well, and there seems to be an unspoken support and understanding among us, and they've each said I could call them any time, with any concern or difficulty I may be having as a PCr. [I've never done it, but that's MY hangup.] I suspect they discuss their emotions with each other. Also, they both openly and regularly share about their roles and aren't the least bit umcomfortable about it, and always speak with affection and love, but rarely share any frustrataion or guilt. I don't know if it's a gender tendency or not!

I did eventually feel guilt--as caretaking became more demanding and my life continued to shrink, I began to experience major depression (I already have chronic lifelong depression). I did feel uncomfortable with my thinking "how long is this going to last" (my mom's now 92+) and desiring relief and release. But I've come to believe that god [whatever, whoever that is] approves and supports me. As the old adage says, "guilt is a useless emotion". There've been so many great posts already here!

A lot of factors go into our self-image - upbringing, experiences over the years, even genetics can play a part!

Living up to some ideal image seems to have begun back in the day when we were dubbed "SuperMom". Those of us who had to work outside the home, care for the home, care for the kids, etc fell into this "ideal". However parents can REALLY influence our behavior, thoughts AND self-image. It can take MANY years to get past the baggage, sometimes it is so ingrained we can't!

One time during a nasty divorce, I was accused by the ex of having an affair. It hurt a lot at the time, but later, reflecting on it, I realized I must be super-human!

* full time off-shift job.
* ALL house duties mine - I even took over mowing!
* ALL child care mine
* after coming home from work, prepping the kids for the day, and dropping them off at day care, I stopped by his place of work to spend 2-4 hours BOOKKEEPING for him!

All that and I could find the time to get a piece on the side? Wow! I didn't and wouldn't even consider it, but gee, I must be something if I could! What a clueless fool he was.

I knew my limits and thankfully mom and dad had enough saved that I didn't have to take on her care (other than trying to support her while she was still living alone and starting down the dementia path and advocating/managing her care.) A few times long before that I had considered it, but realized it would be a very bad idea.

Angry? Sure, but only at my brothers, who were also clueless, but sometimes cruel in their responses or inability to offer help, minimal as it was! I did have to get beyond that myself. I realized being angry with them only hurt me, not them. Before coming to that epiphany, I started an email to each one. I would put it aside (draft folder) and periodically updated it. At some point, it was like a catharsis - I got out what I needed to say, but didn't ever send them. The result would have not been what I would like and would likely just stir up the bee's nest, so they sit to this day in my draft folder.

OB is out of my life with minor exceptions. There's been no communication for over 2 years (he's also not local, thankfully!), but I felt it only right to tell him about mom's mini-stroke, to keep him informed. 15 hours to get "Thanks for update" - yup, really cares about his mother! Once she does pass, there will have to be a little communication, regarding mom's last wishes, etc, but that's it. YB was not nearly as abusive to me, but still has been nasty and uncooperative. Except that I needed him to take mom to Mac Deg treatments, I would have been done with him too. Now that she's had this stroke, I cancelled the treatments, so he's "off the hook" for now. He is also POA and all 3 of us are trustees, but neither of them has done a thing! I expect to do all the finalization work when the time comes, and will feel NO guilt in taking exec fee!

So, once she has moved on, I will become an only child and have MY FREEDOM! I only hope I can live so long AND be able to salvage some semblance of a life. I feel like we are in a race at the moment - who goes first, mom (97), me or my 21.5+ yo kitty? Hoping it isn't me. Mom needs me to keep things going smoothly, kitty needs me too. She wouldn't last or be adoptable.

Imho, perhaps some or all caregivers try to achieve perfection. However, we should not berate ourselves at all because most women are SUPER STARS and are able to handle multiple tasks. Hats off to everyone here!

I still beat myself up 6+ years after my mom went to that first 5 star rated NH after a fall for rehab, and she developed a stage IV wound in there after just a few days that they did NOT tell me about. I found out from the hospital where she was rushed with a UTI the NH waited too long to test for. Needless to say, I never sent her back there and she eventually ended up bedridden on hospice in my home before she passed on 5 yrs. ago. I still wonder how it would have gone if I had not let her go to that place for rehab. I too thought I would get my life together once she was gone, but then care was needed by my MIL for 3 yrs. She passed away on Mother's Day this year. Now we sit in a condo I do not like and my husband's heart problems are acting up again. Would like to move to warmer climate, but Covid is stopping us. I blame myself daily for the NH choice for my mom 6 years ago, and for making a bad choice with this home that was to be temporary. Women do beat themselves up more than men....or do men just internalize it more?

I don't think I'm there yet: I have had possible strep throat for two weeks and am now on medication; I have felt pretty bad. My husband told my mother I was 'not 100%' when ringing about her coming round for her weekly takeaway; the truth is I'm much less than that, so a normal, kind mother might be expected to say 'No, don't worry for now if she is so unwell'. Not my mother! She hasn't even bothered ringing to see how I am, even though my brother told her I was not at all well.

I expect you will think 'Why didn't you just tell her she couldn't come?' but this is the trouble with narcissistic conditioning: one is so scared of offending the parent (and maybe I won't actually feel any worse whether she comes or not). There is also the possible concern of infecting her when her AL are being so prescriptive over allowing anyone in the building, though I don't think anyone has ever caught one of my throat bugs.

My husband said we didn't *have* to have her round, but as usual didn't sound at all sympathetic (he never gets infections like this and always takes the line of least resistance with my mum).

So all in all I feel a bit lonely and uncared-for, and some of it is my own fault!