How do you get over the trauma of watching someone when they die?

vstefans, thank you for your prayers. As I said, I still believe in God and I think He sends people our way to help us. Being on this forum has helped me enormously and I have also started posting to the Aftergiving site.

cmagnum, I haven't picked a doctor yet, but I went to get an eye exam today. My pupils are still fully dilated, so it's kind of hard to search online. My eyes are ok, but I found out I have a tilted optic nerve in my right eye. He said we just have to keep an eye on it.

I have been with my mom for three weeks(I think) as her cancer has rapidly progressed . Now sh is in the dying process , night two .I already have that detachment from life and people and I have no idea wheat I will be like when this is over . My step dad is not handling loosing her , very well . So i am the sole person taking care of her . I agree with calling Hospice , they have people you can talk to . I have had the support of three very special nurses who have come to help at all hours . It is disturbing and hard to watch them labor to breath and the skin change . I just pray for her peaceful passing as i do not want her to suffer any longer . And i will add you to my prayers .

I was only seven years old when Vatican II went into full effect. but I still remember the Latin mass, nuns wearing the full habit, women having to wear a veil in church, fasting one hour before communion, fish on Fridays and all that. My dad and I liked the old hymns and the organ music. We liked a lot of things about the past. Not to take anything away from those who like the changes, Vatican II made me questiion all religious practices. I figured if the rituals we had been doing for generations no longer have meaning, then maybe the current ones don't really matter either. When the priest turned to face the congregation instead of the tabernacle, one older Catholic friend remarked, "They've turned the mass into a cooking show." Penance became Reconciliation. We stopped going to confession when you had to publicly declare your sins before a group. Then when I took college level theology courses, I realized just how arbitrary church dogma was -- it's whatever he fathers of the church voted on. There's no more Limbo or St. Christopher -- I don't know what to believe anymore, except I still believe in God. I also believe in the wonderful humanitarian work which the Catholic Church does throughout the world.

OMG, I'm just kind of laughing out loud. I'm a post-vatican II convert, so I had HEARD of Catholicism indicuing guilt and scruples, but never experienced it, and honsetly - my very protestant Mom had a far worse time with imperfection, fault, and forgiveness; she was just about the harshest, most unforgiving and judgmental person I ever knew, and SHE stopped going to church because she hated to feel guiltly or air any dirty laundry (I told her about group prayers we did and that's what she considered it! - "telling other people all your problems" is I think the phrase she used.) Confessing our sins to one another is a lto healthier, as well as more Biblical than putting up a false front for all the world to see.

And to this day I am AWFUL about going to confession - I think my last dozen times it was so long in between I had to honestly say I had no idea how long it had been since my last one. But yeah, it's very healing. Between that and good friends, good food, and long walks in pretty parks you ought to find yourself coming back to life and even finding a sense of fun again sometime in the foreseeable future. Your Dad would want you to, for one thing, and normal grieving does not ever go away entirely - the death of someone close changes you forever, but not so much in a negative way in the long run. THAT does not have much at all to do with guilt though.

Whoever you go to for confession - they will hopefully be thrilled just to have you back in the fold - here's hopeing and praying you will feel like you have "come home."

Yes, I only know the strict from my MIL and some with my mom who went to catholic school. By the time I went when I was a kid there was children's mass too, I've never even seen our nuns wearing the habit....all the ones we knew already wore street clothes. Old school ways don't exist in so cal...in my area we even have a married priest who switched from episcopalian and one of our priests had been married before...that's why when people spoke of the Church I didn't even know what they were talking about....hadent been my experience at all :)

Sorry to hear that the deacon could not pronounce your father's last name correctly.

Have you found a primary care doctor yet?

I'm almost 58 and barely remember the Latin mass from when I would visit my dad. I never understood a single word. I guess since I was raised much more by my protestant mom, I just never came to appreciate mass being in Latin. I do remember going to mass with my dad and with my cousins when the services were in English and included guitars which I thought was great.

We have two Roman Catholic churches her in town. The larger one does everything in English. The smaller one has to fly a priest in to do the service in Latin.

Yes, a lot did change with Vatican II.

Oh yea, if you liked the Latin mass this is a whole new world...lol of course there's clapping and celebrating, the arm crossing has been forever :) it's so laid back now, watch in summer when everyone shows up to church in shorts hahaha. Jeans and t shirts, they are just happy we're there, all that old strictness is gone. I actually never experienced that catholic church, and I'm 43! Never been to a mass In Latin ever. They changed everything in the 70s with Vatican II but a lot didn't trickle down til later. Look it up :)

Thank you, Hansolos. I will try to go to confession soon. My dad and I used to like the Latin rite -- we were old school Catholics. My father used to be an altar boy. Actually, I went to church today because I had arranged for a memorial mass for my father. It was a regular Sunday mass but they mentioned his name along with others for the repose of his soul during the Prayer of the Faithful. What upset me though is the deacon mispronounced my father's last name. The Catholic church has really changed -- people were applauding stuff, for example, they had all the married couples stand up for a round of applause -- I thought Pope Benedict said no clapping in church. They had women handing out the communion. I hadn't gone to confession so I couldn't receive it but they said anybody who can't can receive a blessing by crossing their arms over their chest, which I did -- that's new to me. I felt like crying, because I was so tired and sad. I didn't take the Ativan last night, so I hardly slept at all. But I made it over there, for my dear dad's sake. I stood about an hour in the rain waiting for the cab to take me home. It cost me $50 round trip for the cabs, because I was too exhausted to take the bus. I know I'm spending money like a drunken sailor but I need all the help I can get. I got more mini therapy sessions from the cabbies, coming and going. I chose that church downtown because you can book memorial masses online.

This evening I invited another cousin to the Peruvian restaurant and afterward we talked for a couple of hours at her apartment. This is the first time I've ever had dinner with her at a restaurant. She loved the food and the Pisco Sours. The waiters are getting to know me. I wanted some way to distract myself until bedtime. My cousin lives alone and likes it that way. I asked her what about love? She said she knows she is loved, she doesn't need someone around her constantly to know that. She's a Buddhist who does a lot of chanting for peace of mind. She asked me if I want to go walking with her at Golden Gate Park. I said sure, so we'll see if she follows through. I haven't been there in many years. The last time was with my father, so it's going to be sad remembering happy days which are no more. I'm going to bed early tonight and take an Ativan. I should feel better tomorrow (hopefully).

Parysia!!!! OMG, you didn't help kill your dad nor do a thing wrong by him! He lived a full productive life with many intrerests woman..STOP he passed of old age as all of us will. He lived much longer because of your care and advanced medicine...BECAUSE OF YOUR CARE HE HAD A MUCH LONGER LIFE! What you did helped him a longer more joyful life, all the 'cheats' made his life that much better, who wants to life with no good food and a rigorous schedule? That's no life, that is prison. I know you have to go around this, we all do, but when they are of old age, that is just part of life, one day they must leave us...cycle of life and all. It does help to vent. I've been blogging and it's giving me enormous relief. Also, go back to church. I'm catholic and you never get over that guilt...lol but the father will absolve you. Go to confession and confess all what your worried about your fathers health and what you did. Limit to just that, save other stuff for another time...just confess the stuff having to do with your dad. You need that, your life even if you've been away is too enmeshed with Catholicism and this will really help. Go talk to the priest. You may end up being surprised how much things have changed...it is no longer the church you grew up with and that's very good. It's more like the new Pope is. The priest is another avenue of therapy and it will help you...haha plus it's free :) I didn't know you were Catholic, it will help so much, I promise. Go to confession and get absolution. The priests are also trained in helping people cope, it is a major part of their jobs, counseling is what they do, aside from giving mass, that's what a priest does. You don't have to go hog wild on it either, go as little or as much as you want, but I know for sure it will help you so much because of your background and upbringing, they can absolve so much of this guilt! Haha and you know they're not going to put up with any crap, they will help and steer you in the right direction. No wonder this other stuff is not helping as much, because you personally need the Church because how you were raised. Please go to confession at least once for the dad stuff. Please do it for you as well as for your dad.

Thank you, pamstegma, for your comforting message. The fact that my father and I were so much alike is what is making this so hard. He was very nice and I tried very hard to be nice, too, but I am my mother's daighter too. My friend told me this evening the problem is that you and your father didn't disagree enough so you never got used to it. My wife and I bicker almost constantly. She puts down everything I like but we're been married forty years and that's just how life is. You don't know how lucky you were to live with someone who shared your interests for 55 years." The trouble is I do know how lucky I was and it seems like I'm out of luck now.

Cmagnum, thank you for your very astute observations. I thought I would be able to fall asleep last night after all my crying, but no such luck. I told the Super-Ego to shut up, and it kept relatively quiet, but I still needed to take an Ativan. Looks like I'm already dependent on it.

You asked about my Id. Id wants my daddy back. My id is too upset about the loss of my father to focus on fun. According to the Encyclopedia of Depression, the person who has suffered a loss is angered and hurt. "These feelings are directed at the most convenient target: characteristics of the lost individual that the person left behind has taken on. The anger often takes the form of bitter self-reproach which arises from the perceived inadequacies in the relationship with the lost individual."

All my life, my primary source of fun was spending time with my father, enjoying movies, music and meals together. Id is devastated and wants to call it quits (death instinct) but the Ego (reason) and the Super Ego (morals) won't give in to these impulses.

Id probably enjoys seeing the therapists, because it likes feeling cared for and receiving attention. The older therapist is a father figure and the younger therapist might introduce Id to new sources of comfort -- if she ever gives me that list of support groups.

If Id is in prison, it's probably because Id is being punished for creating some of the behaviors toward my father that are currently causing the guilt feelings. I wanted to have fun like most people, so I would sometimes complain to my father that I wish we could do something fun. By fun, I meant get out of the house and go someplace interesting. The last time I complained about this I told my father, "I want to spend the rest of my life with you, but I just wish we had something fun to look forward to. There's more to life than movies, music and meals at home." He answered, "Is fun so important?" I replied, "Most people seem to think so." I would often feel this way after my cousins would call and tell me about their umpteenth trip to Disneyland or Las Vegas. It got to a point where I didn't even like answering the phone anymore. I told my father that nobody is holding a gun to our relatives' heads when they go on their countless trips and weekend adventures. My dad sometimes said, " I don't know why you feel so envious -- I don't envy them one bit. When I'm gone you can have all the fun you want." Naturally, this made me sad and I replied, "But it won't be fun without you." As usual, I was sorry I had even mentioned it, but for some reason I thought he just might come up with an idea for us to do something fun out of the house -- I wanted it to be his idea. He would sometimes say that maybe we can go to an Indian casino on the bus when the weather is better. The idea of taking him on a bus didn't seem safe to me or even fun. Waiting for cabs can be a pain, too, which is why I feel guilty about never learning to drive. My father stopped driving when I was 9 after he ran over a dog that shot in from of his car from between two parked cars. Sorry to repeat myself, but not getting a car was one of the biggest mistakes of my life. My father discouraged me, but it's ultimately my fault.

Back in November, at my urging, my father went on a shopping trip with me and my half brother, and we had lunch together at an Asian buffet. My poor father got tired and so we had to bring him home. He felt sorry and said he had tried to please me. I felt so sorry, too, and never asked him to go anywhere again. except the ER.

Now that my father is gone, I realize that fun isn't so important. I should have just been happy he was alive and still with me. I'm crying again. Why did I have to add to his problems -- he had enough to deal with. Now that I'm not feeling good, I wonder is this how he felt? -- so fatigued and worried about the future? Sometimes I can't even breathe very well -- is this how he felt? I have chronic bronchitis now which could be an allergy or even asthma, which I never had before. I don't have much appetite anymore -- is this how my father felt eating that bland food? I used to like the low sodium food well enough, because I had a good appetite, but my poor father missed the foods he used to enjoy. I keep feeling sorry for my father over and over, even more than when he was alive. I still see images of him suffering in the hospital. I do think I have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, but a friend told me this evening that maybe it's temporary. He said he was envious of the close relationship I had with my father -- he was estranged from his own father. He said my father was the nicest person he ever knew, so you see I'm not just idealizing him -- he really was a very special person and it's going to take me a long time to adjust to his loss.

vstefans, I was raised Catholic -- maybe that's where all the guilt comes from. I went to twelve years of Catholic school plus two and a half years at a Jesuit university. However, I'm a fallen-away Catholic. I haven't been to confession in about thirty years and have only attended mass sporadically. . I still love the Catholic church though. I have a Catholic style shrine in my home for my deceased parents. I will be going to mass tomorrow, because I requested a memorial mass for my father at a local cathedral. Incidentally, the priest who presided over my father's funeral services is the official exorcist of San Francisco and was a personal friend of Saint Padre Pio. He was pastor of the parish when I was a little girl. He wants me to come back to the fold, but I am still undecided.
It's true I have committed some bigger sins than anything having to do with my father. I wish our family still held the rosary at home for three nights after the death of a family member. I have fond memories of that when I was a child, but everybody is so spread out these days. Not too many practicing Catholics left in my extended family.

Parysia, you were a devoted child, give yourself some credit for that. Devotion far exceeds perfection in terms of value. Any imperfections were likely inherited and like grandma's say "you have one just like yourself".

Arrgh, Parysia, no wonder you can't sleep! No, your dad did not die of steak or parmesan cheese poisoning, nor of fish deficiency. in addition to seeing your therapist, I highly recommend turning Catholic and then you can go to confession and get absolved. Look up "RCIA" and give it a whirl. Actually they let me do a confession even before I "converted" and I made them answer a lot of typical Protestant questions before I made up my mind. You and I undoubtedly have done things wrong in our lives but probably have felt guilty about things that weren't really wrong at all, and glossed over the things we really should have done differently...I grew up thinking I had to be "perfect" and yet ashamed of all the ways I clearly was not, at least in Mom's eyes. Worrying about those superficial things really was a great way to distract myself from the things I really did need to be forgiven for. Giving and receiving forgiveness is the greatest thing in the world once you can do it, next to giving and receiving love itself - which you have clearly done plenty of. And love is the thing that *counts*.

Parysia,

I am glad to see you back. It sounds like you are being very hard on yourself.
Would of's, Should of's, ought to haves, and Only ifs leads to self-incrimination, prosecution, sentencing and a huge amount of undeserved guilt. From your description of your dad, I do not believe he would have dumped all of that onto you.

From a Freudian perspective your super-ego is overactive to the degree of like being on steroids which is another way of saying that you are being way to hard on yourself. (The super-ego consists of input from society, other significant people your life which tries to tell you what to do, what to think, how to act, etc.) I hope your therapist can help up lighten up. Some of this would of, should have, if only internal stuff, I sure is part of your grieving process. After my mother died, I thought of several things I should have done, ought to have done and could have done as her POA much sooner than when I did. However, at that time I was experiencing a major crisis in my life and it was not until she hit a major crisis that I moved forward as her POA.

I think one thing we must all realize is that we did the best we could with the knowledge and other resources that we had available at the time.

I think your internal defense attorney again from a Freudian perspective would your ego, the part of you that makes conscious choices.

One part of your personality that I don't hear anything from which again from Freud's perspective is the Id. The part of you that would love to just have some fun right now. That can get out of control if not kept within some good boundaries by the ego and the superego, but yours sounds like it is in prison. I hope that your therapist can help you enjoy life more.

This will all take time, but you are making progress and you have a lot of self-awareness which is helping you greatly as you work through all of this.

Your therapist is showing you that he is very concerned about how you are doing with his phone call the other day and through these e-mails. That is very good and supportive.

I'm going to call it a night for I've been on AgingCare for hours.

Take care and have your internal ego chose to tell the superego to be quiet and hopefully you will get some sleep.

Thank you, Hansolos, for making me feel welcome. I have more to share if you can bear it. The older therapist has started emailing me. He is going to help me deal with my guilt. I worry about things like were the meals I served my dad healthy enough?. On the other hand, was I too strict with his diet and a killjoy? It is so hard with CHF because of the salt restrictions. One time, he went into heart failure after eating a bologna sandwich. This was before we realized just how important a low sodium diet is for CHF.

When I think of all the unhealthy foods we used to eat, before he was diagnosed with heart disease, it makes me sad. I used to read books about healthy eating, and I tried to improve our dietary habits, but we still ate too many foods we shouldn't have. If I didn't buy it, he'd bring it home himself: cakes, pies, donuts, pastries, bacon, sausage, hot dogs, cold cuts, spareribs, fried chicken, Chinese food, pizza, etc. After he developed CHF and PAD we adopted a modified Paleo diet. We used to think that orange juice was the elixir of life, until I discovered it contains just as much sugar as soda pop.. From then on we switched to eating whole oranges. He managed to reverse his diabetes and PAD through good diet and that lulled me into a false sense of security. I let him cheat on his diet more often -- he liked veggie pizza, raviolis and spaghetti and meatballs. He seemed to tolerate them as long as he didn't eat too much. Then on his last day at home I served him a small piece of steak. He complained that it didn't have salt. I didn't keep salt around and he didn't like the low salt seasonings. So I gave him some parmesan cheese.to sprinkle on the last forkful. That night he was admitted to the hospital for shortness of breath. Was it a relapse of pneumonia or was it CHF? If I had served him fish instead of steak that night, would he still be alive?

I also feel like I should have made him exercise more. He only liked doing practical things like taking out the garbage or sweeping the yard, when he felt up to it. He didn't like going out, unless he had to, because he didn't want to be seen using his walker. He didn't even like to wear his glasses except to watch tv. I wish I had shown him more comedies and played more happy music in his final days, We watched some great films that week, but the last movie we watched at home was kind of a downer. I thought it was going to be a good mystery. If I had selected a more light-hearted movie would my dad still be alive? But then I remember when his older brother was in hospice, on the day he died he laughed while watching an episode of The Three Stooges, but he still died. Jack LaLanne also died, ironically from untreated pneumonia -- even people who exercise religiously every day have to die. These thoughts still go round and round in my head.

It's like I'm on trial; I'm judge, jury and executioner. I review my entire life with my father and I think of every time I wasn't as sweet toward him as I should have been. People that live together are bound to have disagreements, but now that he's gone I regret my imperfections. My dad was never wealthy, but he was a prince among men. He deserved a perfect daughter. I always asked his forgiveness, but I regret taking his forgiveness for granted, I'm crying now the wailing sobs I've been waiting for. If my dad were in that courtroom I think he'd drop the charges. I remember he used to tell me that I shouldn't worry so much what other people think -- if he doesn't have a problem with how I'm caring for him, then what other people think doesn't matter. I feel so sorry that he didn't have the amount of happiness in life that he deserved -- why did he have to marry such a troubled woman? He used to say it was worth it, because he got me. I regret that I couldn't make him as happy as I wanted him to be. It didn't take much to make him happy, but I wanted more for him. Sadly, by the time our quality of life had improved, his health had started to decline. We ran out of time.

My older therapist said I need to have more compassion for myself, like I would feel toward my dad if he was wracked by guilt. I’d think more about how I'm suffering emotional pain that’s preventing good sleep and restricting my life. But my inner prosecutor, or guilt monger, has lots of Yes buts, arguments against compassionate views. I need a defense attorney, someone who can deal with these arguments in a convincing way. My therapist said he hopes he can be that person for me.

I didn't mean not to be on here! I just ment there's a place you can blog too! I by no means ment anything by it. I'm blogging now too and it helped to vent! Still keep in touch. I sure don't want you to turn away from us when you are talking and sharing! :(

I'm going to take Hansolos' advice and move along now. Thank you to everyone who offered me comfort and advice -- you're the greatest and the best of luck to you all.

Forgot to mention that lying in bed awake is not good sleep hygiene. I've read that to overcome insomnia one should associate their bed only with sleep or sex (no reading, eating, or watching TV in bed). Anyway, tonight I'm going to try Dream Water for the first time, Snoozeberry flavor. It has GABA and melatonin. Unfortunately, I read that GABA does not cross the brain blood barrier, but hopefully it will have a placebo effect from all the great reviews I've read about it.
Take care and good night!

Many thanks, Hansolos, for your suggestions and for the link. The site looks very interesting. I know I shouldn't have turned this thread into my own personal blog, but I thought I would show how someone like me is dealing with the trauma of watching the person I loved the most die. I still get flashbacks of my father's suffering. I really feel for your ordeal, especially your trouble sleeping. When I sleep well, I can face any difficulty like a warrior! You are right to reclaim your life. I'm glad you have family to help you -- otherwise, you'd be stuck. If I only had one person to genuinely care about me it would make a huge difference in the way I'm handling this. Nobody knows what it's like to be alone until it happens to them. I sure didn't. I never felt alone in my entire life until I lost my dad. My cousins and aunts care about me to a point, but there's nothing like having someone who cares about you above all others, whether it's a parent, spouse, child, friend or pet.

My niece and her boyfriend would not be able to pay me rent, unfortunately. Her grandmother has generously paid the $18,000 yearly rent where they are staying now.

I think this grief, loneliness and sleep deprivation is going to kill me. If I could watch movies, enjoy music or even eat like I used to, I wouldn't even be on here. But everything associated with my dad right now is painful, because he's not here to enjoy these things with me. Maybe if someone else were here to watch tv with me, I could get used to it, but as I've said, I don't have friends close by and I haven't figured out a way to make new ones yet. That doesn't mean I won't figure something out, when I can get over my insomnia, but in the mean time life is pretty sad. I'm also thinking that the Ativan could be making me more depressed. Benzos have been linked with suicide and depression. As much as I would like to end it all, because I'm so very tired, my old-fashioned sense of honor toward my father keeps me from choosing a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Besides, the fact I'm worried I wouldn't do it right. Worry is good sometimes. :) Still, when you hear stories about Heath Ledger and Robin Williams who had a lot more to live for than I do, it's pretty scary. Was suicide really a choice for them or did they do it because they couldn't help it?

I have the freedom to do what I want but there's not much I really want to do because of anhedonia. I have tons of stuff to do around here and many hobbies I used to love, but nothing appeals to me right now. I have never had the luxury of lying in bed all day since I was in grammar school. The only time I was sick enough to be confined to my bed was in 1979 when I had the flu. I thought I was going to die! Thankfully, Ive been blessed with mostly good health other than insomnia and the occasional cold or tummy ache. The only thing I've really enjoyed in the last six weeks is going to the Peruvian restaurant, but I've diverted the money I was spending on that into therapy. I do enjoy talking to the therapists, which is why I continue to see them, in spite of my skepticism about their ability to actually change my way of thinking. My best wishes to you and best of luck with your classes!

Parysia I found this site, it may help with what you're going thru and you can blog! aftergiving It's for those like you who are on a new path after cargiving is over. Idk, maybe you can deal with the devil music if they can pay rent and not be a financial burden, it might be great to have somone young in the house to breathe fresh air and get you out of your head. You're rambling around going over the same things over&cover because you're stuck in greif mode. Understandable but not healthy. If you do draw up a rental agreement including boundaries like no devil music after a certain hour. Sleep obsession has to stop woman! :) you're still counting hours and obsessing...that will not help it. Maybe take a few days and curl up in bed and promise yourself to do NOTHING no reserch no yelp, get some TV shows or maybe sappy rom coms your dad wouldn't have liked and try and chill, don't think of therapist and switching and how many pills you have. I'm taking my own advice. SIL is stable and I've been obsessing. Even though she's on hospice she's doing better and no one knows when it's her time. The last 2 mo. Life has stopped and the whole house has revolved around her and her needs. While we of course will still care for her, we have to reclaim our lives, we can't hinge everything on her, it's breaking us down....whole house on pins and needles, especially me. I've been obsessing and watching every move, researching continuously handling all her affairs and hovering. Can't do it anymore, making myself sick. I've not been sleeping either, can't concentrate on school. I'm taking the weekend off, I'll only be available for a crisis. I have to stop this cycle or it will kill me. I'm gonna enjoy my most comfortable bed on the planet (I've been sleeping on couch near her) and hang out in my giant bedroom. We just moved and I'm going to play with my house moving stuff and bum around and reclaim my life. Gonna watch movies and hang out with my kids. You lost your dad and that's horrible, but you have to get out of your new obsessive cycle if you can.you have freedom right now to do what you want, get out of your head and chill and do nothing. All day I've activly forced myself not to check on her (my mom and girls and hubby are) I've got a test to study for and I'm gonna make time to do that.

I envy my neighbor's gray cat who was sleeping comfortably in the sunshine in my yard. So much talk about sleep hygiene, going to bed the same hour every night, making sure the room is dark, not too hot, not too noisy, no electronics -- and yet that lucky cat was sleeping in direct sunlight with no problem at all! I read that we should avoid blue light because it destroys melatonin, so why is that cat sleeping?

I felt depressed coming home from the therapist, because my father is not home to greet me and never will be again. Some drunk sitting on the street kept yelling "zorra!" at me over and over. I thought he was saying "fox", because "zorra" means "fox" in Spanish, but I looked it up and it's actually an insult to women. When I walked with my father, nobody dared insult me like that. I still feel like I'm in a bad dream.

Thanks again, cmagnum. I was too tired to treat myself to anything special today, but tomorrow is another day. Yes, the drop-in clinic is exactly as you described.
My search continues for a primary care doctor.

I just got back from the male therapist. We had an interesting, mostly theological, discussion about the guilt I'm feeling after my dad's death. He said I was being obsessive about it and I keep going in circles -- feeling guilty about something I did or failed to do and then rationalizing about it in my own defense. He even said I'm feeling guilty about feeling guilty, because modern society doesn't approve of guilt. He said that if God can forgive murderers, rapists and thieves, then he can forgive me, too. I told him that I didn't think he would be able to make the obsessive guilt feelings go away, that what I really need is deep sleep to process my emotions. I said I would be seeking the help of a psychiatrist to help get me off Ativan. The therapist said I just wanted drugs and that I was a drug addict (sleep meds only -- I've never done illicit drugs). He suggested toughing it out like he did when he quit morphine cold turkey (prescribed for shingles). It was rough for two weeks but he got through it. He said he would see me for free next Tuesday, as a minister, so I said ok. I told him please not to call me at 8 am because I might be asleep.

Interestingly, the cab driver who drove me to my appointment is a British and American Indian shaman who helps spirits cross over. I got a mini-therapy session with him. I also vented my grief to a cab driver yesterday. He sympathized about how he lost his mother. He said he understands the closeness of the father daughter relationship -- he's crazy about his own young daughter. He said that life is too short -- sooner than we realize we'll be with our loved ones again. All we can do is make the most of the time we have left.

Parysia,

That is an interesting medication history. It was a wise decision to not mix those two anti-anxiety meds.

I hope you soon find a primary care doctor who can from now on be your doctor, the one person, who is aware of all of your medical care needs and what you are taking. I think finding this person and getting a complete physical from them as well as them to get to know you for a total grasp of where your health is will be very helpful.

You don't need anyone assuming that you may have bipolar disorder just because your mother had it is playing fast and loose with an important diagnosis in my opinion, plus it sounds like they had not gotten to know you.

I assume that by a drop in clinic doctor that you mean something like what we have here in NC called urgent care. They have doctors on staff who work longer hours than the usual doctor's office does and they provide help to people who need medical help, but don't need to go to ER. Those doctors do not become someone's primary care physician.

Your older male therapist calling you at home is unique and something that I've never experienced nor heard of a therapist doing. Let us know how meeting with him went. He may just be too old to be effective in doing therapy anymore.

I would encourage you to not give up on the younger therapist right yet. It sounded from your experience the other day that you found her to be very caring and you felt free to cry and that she encouraged you to see a primary doctor to see if their is a physical problem that is related to your insomnia. It is very likely that your insominia is related to your anxiety. Meds alone do help, but the most helpful thin todo is to utilize both medical therapy and face to face therapy.

Take care and do something nice for you today!

Thank you so much for all your help, cmagnum. I think maybe the doctors are assuming I am bipolar because my mother was bipolar. I have not been diagnosed with manic depression, and I don't think I have it, but I have read that certain traumatic events can trigger it, so I'm worried about that. My father's death is certainly the most traumatic event of my life, especially now that I am alone. I think "withdrawal" from a loved one must be worse than withdrawal from any medication. If I could only sleep on my own, then I'd have a better sense of control over my own destiny. I've always been a night owl -- I think I suffer from sleep phase onset disorder, but I've always been able to reset my sleep cycle by staying up all night and then going to bed early the following night. That's not working anymore.

Right now I'm only taking 1 mg Ativan at bedtime for sleep. I tried not taking anything again last night, but by 4 am I still couldn't sleep, so I took the Ativan which gave me about four hours of sleep. I feel tired.

I got my Ambien prescription (I took 5mg for six months) from a previous doctor who has since moved away. Ambien had helped me with my insomnia during two previous episodes in 1999 and 2009. I also got it once from the ER in Dec 2014 when I went in for bronchitis, just seven pills. When I went to the ER for anxiety after my father's death, the nurse practitioner told me I was suffering a normal grief reaction and she didn't want to give me anything at all. She just said work on my sleep hygiene, but it's not the hygiene that's giving me insomnia -- its the grief and anxiety! She said I shouldn't take Ambien long-term. I begged her for it and told her I know how to wean myself off of it, because I had done so three times in the past. She gave me five pills and said I wouldn't get more Ambien unless a doctor prescribed it for me. So I went to the drop-in clinic doctor who also doesn't like to prescribe Ambien, so he prescribed Seroquel, 50 mg, 1 or 2 for sleep as needed -- it didn't work for me, not even 100 mg. The Seroquel relaxed me but did not put me to sleep at all. Made me feel hungover -- I looked terrible. I took it only once. He also gave me Celexa 10 mg, 1 a day. I took only one, because it gave my head an odd sensation.

At my request, the drop-in doctor also gave me 10 mg Ambien in case the Seroquel didn't work (it didn't). I was splitting the Ambien in half to make them last, and since 5 mg is the recommended dose for women. Now Ambien only lets me sleep three hours, because I have developed a tolerance. So I started taking two 5 mg doses, one at bedtime, and the next when I woke up three hours later, to give me six hours of sleep total. Now I only have one 10 mg pill of Ambien left and I'm saving it for an emergency.

A doctor friend who also doesn't like Ambien, prescribed 0.5 mg Xanax during the day for anxiety and 1 mg Ativan at night for sleep. I haven't tried the Xanax at all. After I researched benzos, I was afraid of taking two different ones at the same time, so I'm only taking the 1 mg Ativan right now. I don't want to call this doctor friend for advice, since I don't trust her judgment.

This morning the male therapist called me at 8:12 am just to ask how I'm doing. He didn't have much to say, so I'm thinking he called me just to wake me up -- good thing I was already awake. But if I had been asleep, that would have been a nasty thing to do. I guess I can't see him anymore, but I'm just going to see him this last time in case he has anything to tell me that can help me at all. I'm grasping at straws at this point. I feel like asking him why he called me so early? Maybe he's the one who is screwed up. But talking to him is better than talking to cats on the street.

So you see, not being able to get the help I need has been stressing me out more. Even the female therapist's idea of buying myself three gifts was like putting a bandaid on a bullet wound. If I can find a good psychiatrist or MD to help me get off Ativan, then I'll drop both therapists. But at this point I can't sleep without pills.

It sounds like you sure have been given a lot of meds, a few of which treat the same symptoms and one of which I wonder why it was prescribed. I've looked them up online and all I can say is wow!

I definitely agree with the female therapist that you need a primary care physician who can give you a complete physical with blood work. You don't need a drop-in clinic doctor who is going to hand you a bunch of pills.

In my opinion, as someone with bipolar disorder on various meds and have been on other meds along with a wife who has had a broader range of mental health meds than I have, only a psychiatrist who knows your physical health evaluation from a primary care physician and sometimes even has the input from a therapist has any business prescribing any of these four meds to someone.

Is ativan the only one you are taking now?

I assume that you have medical insurance. Very a medical insurance company will have a site online where you can look up various types of doctors in San Francisco, CA that are covered by their company. The people on their list have to qualify to be on that list and thus they represent a group under some degree of quality control. Knowing who is covered by your health insurance will also automatically remove some doctors from your list.

I know that you like to do research online. So that would be a good research item.

When you find and meet with your primary care physician, they are going to want to know what meds you are currently taking and why.

What a list!

Xanax is for management of anxiety disorder and panic disorder. This is a federally controlled substance due to its abuse potential.

Ativan is for short term relief of anxiety issues like the inability to sleep and anxiety related to depression.

Both of these drugs are benzos and should not be taken together.

Valum helps a person to ween off of atavan, but it is an anti-anxiety med also.

Seroquel is an anti-psycotic that is often used to treat people with bipolar disorder and people with schizophrenia. It can help people sleep better. Indeed because for me it was like a knock out pill. It was hard to stay awake during the day. (why was this even prescribed?)

Ambein is for short term treatment of insomnia

Celexa is an anti-depressant. I can see this possibly being needed.

All together this list of 6 drugs that you have mentioned looks like a loaded gun
to me. Did one doctor prescribe all six of these at one time? Your physical health definitely needs a thorough evaluation and which exact meds in what combination and what dosage needs to be figured out in light of your physical evaluation and your emotional evaluation from your therapist. Without it, you're just floating through the world of meds without a clue as to what is right for you.