By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid. We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment. You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or
[email protected] to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
*If I am consenting on behalf of someone else, I have the proper authorization to do so. By clicking Get My Results, you agree to our
Privacy Policy. You also consent to receive calls and texts, which may be autodialed, from us and our customer communities. Your consent is not a condition to using our service. Please visit our
Terms of Use. for information about our privacy practices.
I have to say that I had a horrible time closing out my parents' bank account after they died (it was empty). POAs are no good after death. Finally, a copy of the will did the trick. You'd think a death certificate would do it, but no. I needed more documentation. Finally, a copy of the will did the trick.
Good luck to all who have to fight with this issue,
Carol
That's all well and good, but if indeed a bank refuses, what can you do? I have been at meetings with other attorneys who say "I advise my clients never to use Bank X because they always cause trouble with POAs," etc. But the average person has no idea of a bank's reputation in this regard and is thus at their mercy when the time comes to try to use a correctly prepared and signed POA.
Short of filing an expensive legal proceeding against the bank to force them to recognize the POA (precisely what you were trying to avoid in the first place by using a POA), you can have the attorney who prepared the document call the legal department and try to persuade them to accept it. Or say that YOU will sign a hold harmless provision that protects the bank if they act in reliance on the POA.
Good luck!
I believe that behind closed doors, a lot of signing goes on for the sake of practicality. My mom signed the papers to get herself into Al when she didn't want to go--but she was so confused she just signed. The person who brought her the papers knew that my mom didn't know what she was signing and felt bad about it but there was no other way!!! My mom, like so many others, was a complete mental and emotional wreck. (She is much better now with the correct meds but it took us a while to get there.) I can only say, thank God that there are people out there who are willing to bend the rules a tad to help.
My neighbor signed the mortgage to sell her parents house without a POA--this is to say that she forged their signatures. Was that wrong? Of course. But it was absolutely necessary. The parents, both with dementia and very frail, needed the money to go into AL. There was no other way.
Is this an isolated case? I doubt it very much. What do you think?
At the same time, how frustrating is it to have my mom sign a POA back when she was in full mental health, only to have it ignored by the bank??????
I say, get the form, have her sign it whether she knows what it is or not and, as you say, ohJude, assuming there has been no dated diagnosis of incapacity, and get on with the business of taking care of her affairs.
1) Christine73 is incorrect, and is mixing up two ideas. A durable power is effective even if someone is incapacitated. A springing power is one that is not effective immediately, and only 'springs' to being when incapacity is shown by whatever method is provided in the POA.
2) Some states, including mine in North Carolina, do provide that if a bank refuses a POA it can be held liable in the Courts unless it had a good reason to refuse it. Usually pointing that out to the bank does the trick.
Now the new account had my moms and my name with payee beside it. I had to keep all receipts and could only spend the money for my mothers needs, and part of grocery bill, utilities, since she lived with me and could share the expense. When doing the payee you are responsible for her money and will be audited once a year.
i have tried all these. doesnt anyone out there have any good advice???
Now whether you intended to be rude or not I don't know but it sure as hell came across like that to me because it sounded like you were inferring that all the previous advice was 'not good'
I haven't been sarcastic - I can be if you would like but others will tell you thats not my way. If however you have tried every piece of advice that people have given you and that has not been successful then you need to realise that the bank is under no obligation to recognise a POA immediately it is handed over. If you make an appointment to discuss the problem formally with the branch manager you will probably be able to argue the case more fully. You never mentioned anywhere in your first post about lawyers so please don't expect me to know things you have not articulated.
The reason they wont instantly recognise it is multitudinous and while it is a bloody nuisance and it is (been there done that got the tee shirt) they actually wanted to see my mother to make sure she was still alive for heavens sake. They also wanted the doctors certification of incapacity and it had to be dated AFTER the POA was registered with the courts. It is a lot of hoop jumping but you can get there eventually
Of course if you have posted on another thread and have expected me to hunt through the entire site then I will apologise - I don't have that much time on my hands right now but then I am the sole carer for my mother and trying to help my two children deal with the diagnosis of a terminally ill father.
HOWEVER
Banks wont have a blanket policy against accepting a power of attorney, since they every state has different laws.
Bank authorities are legally responsible to honour powers of attorney that have taken effect unless they believe or conceive that there may be something suspicious such as a forged signature or possibly a later POA which renounces the one you hav or perhaps yours has not been registered .
The problem is that most bank employees - especially the tellers rarely understand the law in relation to POAs so you have to go higher
As you appear to need to get the power of attorney recognized, you will have to be persistent. Insist on speaking with the branch manager. If he wont help ask for the number of the bank's legal department and call them yourself.
You will have to supply a copy of the power of attorney. If your mum's POA specifies that it takes effect when she lacks a certain mental capacity (rather than a specified date), you are going to need to prove that with a doctor's certification of that condition.
And for some states you have to register it with the courts which can cost about 70$
After that I haven't a clue and since I am British I reckon I have done quite well researching it
See All Answers