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But if all else fails then the police should be involved. The OP won't be able to have APS or social workers try to help them if they know guns are present. It's a tough situation no matter what.
If he threatens suicide you call 911 and that he is threatening to commit suicide.
It honestly sounds like your dad is not competent either.
If you know where the guns are in the house and you can safely get to them and remove them from the house or lock them up so that he does not have access to them please do so.
Does he have a Primary Care Physician that he has seen recently? Is there a way to get him in to be evaluated? If not the ER will have to do.
IF and when he gets to the ER you must talk to a Social Worker and say that mom is not safe with him in the house.
The ideal situation would be to remove m om from this volatile environment.
Let them know that you fear he will harm her and himsef because he has threatened to in the past.
They will respond.
I wouldn't gamble the life of my mom on this one; and I don't care WHAT the outcome is for him.
After that, I would proceed to the police department to secure a tro for your mother so that your dad doesn’t know where she is or where she’ll be going to.
It is, yes, entirely possible that your father will kill first his wife and then himself. And I would make it clear to ALL authorities that you speak to, that the removal of the guns from the home or their unthought out interventions could well result in the death of your mother, your father and themselves. The Forum has had this question before, unfortunately. I am certain we will again.
This isn't do-it-yourself. Your father should be ambulanced to a psyc unit and your mother removed from his care and to a safehouse.
Do know that when action is taken by family is when ALL OF YOU are in the most danger of losing your lives.
I am terribly sorry for you family being hostage to this madness.
Not every question has a good answer; I am afraid this is one of them.
The family would need to plan a distraction for him (like show up with balloons and a cake, or anything that would work). Or, they invite him out for dinner or something he'd look forward to. Even if they kept him engaged at the front door, and someone else snuck in another door and searched while he was distracted. This is a multi-person effort. It would probably require at least an hour. If he has them locked in a gun safe, then that's another issue but at least they're all in a single place and police could be told this and the location. Even if they just found the ammo and took that, it's better than nothing. Someone would need to distract the Mom too, or else she'll rat everyone out.
But honestly if they were able to do this, I'd pack Mom's bags and tell her she's going on a vacation and that they'll meet up with her husband at the location then leave out the back door. Don't bring her back home again.
My cousins did this with their 90-yr old Mom when they had to get her away from her neglecting and abusive husband (their own Dad). He went on a rampage (no guns) but was more worried about his money. He went to the bank in his enraged, demented state, fell in the bank, got a TBI and passed away in the hospital. Too good an end for that jerk.
The OP should act right away. There's no good that will come from waiting. Two years ago a locally well known multi-millionaire in the next town shot and killed his wife with ALZ and then himself. His poor kids... what a horrible end to that man's otherwise stellar life (I'm assuming he also had dementia or depression or paranoia).
I hope others with personal experience or knowledge will chime in but my first thought is has your father had any dealings with law enforcement previously? Has anyone called 911 about his suicide threats when he makes them? Has anyone called APS or requested the police do a welfare check?
I think you need to document everything carefully, too, as you try to defuse this powder keg.
Hoping for the best for you and your mom.
If you want more from us, please give more details. Otherwise all we can offer is sympathy, which I can see you deserve. Best wishes, Margaret
My SFIL had PD and Lewy Body dementia. He threatened to kill us. My MIL told us he had a rifle in the house. When we called social services they asked us if there were firearms in the house because this is quite common here, and particularly in my state full of hunters. They told us to call the police and when we did the police asked us if there were firearms in the house. Then they asked us to get the firearms out first. And we did.
If they remove one of your parents from the home, what plan do you have in place to care for your Mom? If no one is her PoA then social workers will probably refer her to a judge for a court-assigned legal guardian.