I'm afraid my sister is trying to steal all of my mom’s money by being on joint accounts with her. What can I do to protect my mom?

I thought there might perhaps be some different definition of an annuity in the US so I looked it up:

In the United States, an annuity is a contractually executed, relatively low-risk investment product, where the insured (usually, an individual) pays a life insurance company a lump-sum premium at the start of the contract. That money is to be paid back to the insured in fixed, incremental amounts, over some future period (predetermined by the insured). The insurer invests the premium; the resulting profit/return on investment funds the payments received by the insured and compensate the insurer. Conventional annuity contracts provide a predictable, guaranteed stream of future income (e.g., for retirement) until the death(s) of the beneficiaries(s) named in the contract, or, until a future termination date — whichever occurs first.

So if your sister arranged for the purchase of two annuities for your mother, and they were indeed annuities, she will have done so to provide a guaranteed income for your mother over whatever term the annuities were for. Often, annuities are planned to continue up until the death of the insured person. If your sister wanted to steal your mother's money an annuity is not the way to do it, because the premium invested remains with the insurance company and the fixed income from it goes to the insured - that is, your mother.

With respect, you don't have any right to know what is being done with your mother's money unless your mother has specified in an instrument granting power of attorney that you must be kept informed.

You are entirely wrong to imagine that I don't know what it is like to be excluded from financial management of a parent's affairs. While I was my mother's primary caregiver, she had already drawn up DPOA for finances for my brother and sister jointly. It was a massive pain in the arse, it meant that the people in control of the money had no real understanding of my mother's day to day needs, and it made an already strained relationship with my sister worse.

But it did not lead me to suppose that my siblings were out to take all the money for themselves and leave me penniless. What reason other than evident dislike of her do you have to think your sister is planning to do that to you?

You are partially correct about annuities in that they pay out earnings over the term of the contract, but you are wrong in your assertion that the premium stays with the insurance company after the term is over. It is then returned to the annuitant, less any fees. If the annuitant dies before the maturity date of the annuity, their principal which was paid up-front is returned to their estate, less a hefty early-surrender penalty, which can be 20% or more. I don't think anyone would be dumb enough to invest $500k up front at the age of 80 on the gamble that they would live long enough to reach the maturity date (the ones she bought were a 7 yr and a 10 yr term) if they knew all their paid-in funds would be forfeited once they died. But there are very large commissions paid up-front to the broker at the time an annuity is purchased. I estimate the bank financial "advisor" that sold the 2 annuities to my mom made at least $40k on the sale immediately, so there is a big incentive for them to hard-sell to the elderly. I have even heard of annuities being sold to clueless elderly people and the seller listing himself as the sole beneficiary! But in our case I think my sister was listed as the beneficiary since none of the rest of us were asked for our social security numbers to be listed on the beneficiary page of the document. Also my mom had me read the two annuity documents and I never saw a beneficiary page on either one. So I think my sister may be keeping those hidden until our mom passes away, just in case one of us were to discover it beforehand.

To answer your last question, Churchmouse, the reason I think my sister is planning to keep all of the inheritance for herself...I don't know where to start, but suffice it to say that my brother and I will be very surprised if she doesn't. I don't want to write a book here, but just like I wouldn't assume to know more about your siblings than you do, and I wouldn't expect that you would know more about mine than I do. The fact that she is being so secretive and controlling of our mother's finances is just one red flag that has been raised. Another red flag: after my dad died my mom and sister asked me to sign up to be limited agent on my mom's Vanguard fund account which was held in a trust, so I could keep an eye on it. It had funds of about $600k at the time. Then my sister set it up to have her joint account with our mom as the account attached to the investment account - so any redemption of shares would funnel in to their joint account. This would be a slippery way to funnel all the funds out of the Trust and into my mom and sister's joint account, making the funds 100% my sister's and my mom's property. Once my mom died the funds would be 100% belonging to my sister. So I would be the one making the transfers at my sister's request - into her joint account with our mom. If I ever accused her of pilfering all the funds from the Trust, she would be able to point the finger at me, as I would be the one that initiated the transactions. Then when I caught on to that scheme and revoked my limited agent designation, they together visited an attorney and had the Trust dissolved, and none of the other siblings know anything more about her financial matters beyond that point. My brother and I are pretty sure my sister got half of a $275k insurance settlement that my mom got. My mom slipped and told me she got $275k forgetting that she had told me and my brother previously that she had only gotten $130k. Soon after my sister got a new kitchen remodel...she makes very little money at her job. The two of them are devious liars, so who knows what the truth is? Those are just some of the clues I have about what my sister has in mind. You sound like you have not dealt with a sociopath - it is a whole different ballgame!!

My husband and I gave up two good jobs in a big city to move to her small town to be close. My job here pays $20K less than I was making, and my husband retired early with a reduced pension. We still help our young adult kids, and my mother agreed to help us continue to do that when she begged us to move closer to her. Now that we're here, all she does is panic about money - and it's not like tens of thousands of dollars! Or even thousands! She has a healthy income (thanks to my dad) and a very fat investment fund (thanks to my grandfather) and she still acts like she's broke, and refuses to acknowledge what we gave up to be near her. She makes me wish I had my old life back, but given her health issues, that's not possible. She was literally coming out of anesthesia recently and as soon as she was conscious started talking about her "financial hole." I'm on her bank account and my out-of-town sister is supportive of us, but my mother hits the panic button about every day. I'm at my wit's end with her. Seriously, folks, no good deed goes unpunished.

I have just had my brother and sister n law accuse me of "embezzling" my mom's money(which is not much per month although they think it is.) My mom added me to her checking accounts because she was forgetting to pay bills and Also she was ordering things from catalogs donating money she didn't have to charities, odering books, magazines Etc. Etc. and every month she was overdrawing her account. Well it took me months to try to get these monthly drafts off her account for these charities and I am still trying to pay her bills off. I actually paid off some of her bills with my credit card and had a talk with her and told her I was paying the bill from her account since i had to use my card to pay off her bills. She has a room fool of things she ordered and just never paid for. Well now my brother says I stole her money by using it to pay the monthly bill on the credit card that I used to pay of her debt. His wife accused me of opening credit cards in moms name---which is so easy to dispute because moms credit is ruined and she couldnt qualify for one. Now the twist of this is I was living another state while they were supposed to be watching and taking care of her. I was away for 4 years living in Wyoming and while I was away my mom started ordering all the stuff and donating to charities and spending spending ! When I came back home I went to see my parents and was disgusted --my moms room was a hoarders dream. It was horrible. I ask my brother and sister -n-law why was it like that....her reply I didnt know about it ---You live right beside them, your kids stay down there alot and you expect me to believe you didn't know about it. Well to go on, i tried to help her have gotten accused of stealing money, guns. While all along these two sorry people got my illiterate Dad and uncle to sign the house and land over to them many years ago. My dad thought he still owned everything ---so obviously they did not explain to him what he was doing or he didnt know what he was signing. I dont know what to do at this point, because my sister n law did the same thing to her own sister accused her of taking her moms money, jewelry and whatever. There is a pattern of these people accusing and causing hurt and pain.

A short answer....from lawyer advice, when I took over for both my parents 5 years ago. I am a lone child. My brother died at 37, so no sibling issues. However, relative to how to deal with parents money, your money, your future, what you give up to be a caregiver that may affect the rest of your life. My parents lawyer said, right in the beginning....you never, ever use your own money to provide care for your parents. You do not give up your job, income, retirement, future security, relationships with husband, children or anything else, and he definitely encouraged me to take out a caregiver's salary. I refused, because my parents had plenty of assets at the time. I was retired already, so the income issues for me did not not apply. I sort of felt at the time, since I was the sole recipient of whatever was left, what was the point trying to take any up front, if I didn't need it. HOWEVER, at that point in time, I had NO IDEA how hard the job would be, how time consuming various parts were, how frustrating dealing with my parents, who had, financially planned all things out very well ahead of time...trust, poa, wills, wishes ...all done up nice in a tidy little book with the lawyer all paid for for the rest of their lives....and a few hundred thousand in investments plus the house, cars and RV on the side. I thought it would be smooth sailing. AND...to be clear, I lived out of town and never did take on 24/7 care. I was a coordinator of care and handler of resources, and I still felt like I was going to die sometimes. All went fairly well with my parents, until it became clear they needed either helpers to stay in the home, or they needed to consider memory care or assisted living out of the home. Brakes went on, attitudes came out big time, fights ensued. NO strangers in their home. I and our daughters....as family, would be the only helpers allowed. No one lived in town with my parents at that point. Parents fighting with ea other as Dad's dementia got worse. He was the head of the house and always took care of Mom, so none of her reminding about missing bills, meds, lost items etc were going to be acceptable to him. Only me on the phone would be seen as a resource. I was traveling 5 hours every couple weeks, and staying for 3-4 days to help, do MD appts, fix things, find things, organize things, create stability, meet with attorney, plan for future stuff. Eventually Dad had to be forcibly removed from home and ordered into Memory Care. Then the money started to flow out of all accounts. I had to plan how to prepare for eventual Medicaid approval, with 'spend downs' and look backs and all that, and understand how the estate gets saved for the left spouse in the home, but how certain financials MUST be done in the right way or Medicaid would not be approved or would be delayed due to gifting punishments. Again, I was told....set up checking accounts for trust and POA...and do not mix money. Once Dad was approved for medicaid (after spending down nearly $100,000 in investments), then his money had to be in totally separate account from Mom's money too....to ensure that his money only spent for him, and that he never had more than $2000 in assets in that checking account. Mom, showing signs of Alzheimer's herself, needing caregivers...refusing help, being a stinker....complaining about all aspects of Dad's care in his facility which was very nice, but not to her perfections. We got to where we were paying almost as much for 6 hrs/day of caregivers for Mom, so she could visit Dad and get to drs and food shopping, but not drive herself.....almost as much as assistive living would cost. BUT, I did not want to separate them, so we considered moving both together to an AL in my town....VERY hard to coordinate. We considered moving both to daughter's in WA, where they lived on a sm farm and wanted both of them, but hard to move those with dementia for fear it will get worse, due to changes, and Mom refused to leave being around me. Obstacles at every turn, until Dad fell, got worse, and died at 93. Then, a few months grieving for Mom and lawyer told her we had to sell the house and she had a month or so to find an AL by me that she chose. I was never able to take Mom or parents in with me, because at my age, with my own health problems, I already had a hubby with early Parkinson's and even though a retired RN, I just could not sign on for having 3 patients and care for myself....so moving in our home was never part of the plan. Did my best. Had lots of support from two daughters, though both of them also out of town. But I would use parents money and fly them in for crises situations. Seems like, every time I had an application deadline, there would be a fall, hospitalization, sickness, whereby I couldn't meet financial deadlines and still be there with the parent in need. VERY HARD times...with NO caregiving at all! And no one fighting with me over anything....just trying to help. My end.....Mom came here, lived in AL for a year...fell, broke a leg, rehab for 3 months, never adjusted and still unhappy even though she had me at her side for 4-6 hours daily. I started with more health problems due to stress. NOW...as of October, Mom has finally moved and on her own asked to live with the granddaughter in WA state on the farm, while I was getting work ups....and I find myself with all works ups normal, til the last one....a lung tumor that must come out at 72 years old! Not CA, thank you GOD....but seems the end result of the years of constant stress on me. And, finally....last bit of advice.....why do any of us children start out with this thinking about 'our inheritance'? Our parents saved this money all their lives...a little, a lot....whatever they were able to plan....it's is ALL THEIR MONEY until the day they die. We should all be expecting to use ALL that money, if needed for their care and needs until the day they die. If there is extra then, that is where a family should start looking at 'inheritance'. But we don't neglect parents in order to get inheritance. And, I am of the opinion, that who ever does the 24/7 care....IF they've put themselves in a position where the rest of their own lives could be affected, they need to get that caregiving salary right up front, so they can still save, and invest, and handle their own needs and their own health care. Other siblings who cannot or do not want to help, simple get to look at the left overs after death....period. Of course, others can help. Duties could be split, people out of town can do internet research and drum up support ideas and be supportive. And it absolutely infuriates me that there could be any children who would quit visiting and staying in touch with their parents during this end of life stuff. I mean, if one is unable to maintain even a polite, regular visiting relationship with a parent, then don't dare come out of the woodwork in the end looking for your 'inheritance'! I don't much care what the issues were. My parents were not perfect. My Mom was somewhat abusive when we were little. Life was not always happy. But when you come to end of life, all you have is family. Yes, I am sure that some have totally burned their bridges by bad actions earlier....but whereever possible, I believe an elderly person should die with family around, knowing that people cared that they lived. Dementia has nothing to do with it, because we all feel love, safety and caring inside our souls. So, summary.....if you are just starting out....consider an elder care attorney and getting things set up right. Do NOT use your own money or endanger your own future if you elect to be the caregiver. If you are not the caregiver, then please find a way to support and be a good family member, and do not expect to end up with everything 'even steven' as to financial decisions. If one person is the caregiver and one person controls the money, there absolutely CANNOT be any fighting or control over money. IF you cannot be on the same team, then get a third party guardian to handle money. The caregiver needs to get what ever is needed to get the job done, without fighting for it. Life is hard enough doing 24/7 care. If there is strife among everyone.....it's sad, but better to let them all go, and be the lone caregiver with all the control in your hands. Find your other resources and give it all to GOD. Better peace for your parent/LO and health left over for you in the end. And NO ONE talks about inheritances until all have died and there are resources left over. This is all THEIR MONEY til then. Bad enough that they desired you to have an inheritance and was not ever counting on the enourmous medical costs that come with elderly end of life issues.....but the government (meaning other tax payers) doesn't it owe it to anyone to get it all for free, to ensure the 'inheritance' for family members. May not seem fair, but no one promised that life would be fair.....

Speak privately with your mom about your concerns. As long as your mom has mental capacity, there's not much else you can do; unless you can prove she's being coerced against her will.

If she doesn't have the mental capacity, you could see a lawyer. But that's a last resort. Family breakdowns are not nice, and you don't recover.

Maybe you could also get your mom a new additional bank account and transfer her money, then your sister can continue with this account

My situation is that my mother lives in an independent living apartment and is declining. She doesn't drive any more and I am self employed so she thinks that I should be able to drop everything and be at her beck and call when she wants. She makes doctor's appointments and then tells me when they are. If I happen to have something on my calendar that day she tells me that "it was so hard to get that appointment" so I wind up cancelling my appointment. My siblings are all out of state. My sister found out I am on mom's bank account (for emergencies only) and she threw a fit. Why can't SHE be on mom's account too? Mom is living on SS only and is on low income housing. She has my other siblings believing that she has a huge insurance policy but that is far from the truth. Her policy will barely cover her funeral expenses. Hence the fact that I will pay the rest. Past experience when my father passed away showed that my siblings think that since I own a business that I am "rich" and can pay for all mom and dad's financial needs. NEVER once did they offer to pay their portion of dad's funeral expense. And now, the only sibling that comes around is the one that sweeps into town and gets my mom to pay for his way and he leaves with money that he talked her into giving him. I do not get paid to take care of mom. When she gets cabin fever and feels lonely, she calls me and "guilts" me til I go over and spend the entire day with her. I live in a snowy part of the country and sometimes it is difficult getting out. That doesn't seem to faze her. She has access to events at her complex that involves lunches, games, movies, and grocery shopping. It is very seldom that she takes advantage of those. I am with her an average of 3 days a week, all day. I take her to lunch, shopping and doctors appointments. Sometimes we just drive around just to get her out. I enjoy being with her most of the time but I am putting other things on hold so that I can do that. I tried getting a home care person for companionship for her and that person kept asking questions regarding "depression", "financial hardship", "feelings of suicide"... What the heck???? Of course, that didn't go very far. Now mom doesn't trust anyone but me. BTW, I have 5 siblings. It would help mom's attitude if they would just call her more often with good news. They tend to call with all their problems and then that puts her into a depressed mood. Then I am the one that has to bring her back around in a good mood. I have a rule now... if mom starts talking about depressing things, I just say "this is a no negative" day. Only good thoughts and conversations today. Then I take her for ice cream. It is so hard to be the only one that seems to give a crap about her welfare. I know I am doing right by her. I just wish the others would do that too. Come visit her, send her a "just thinking of you" card or pop something in the mail that will brighten her day. Show ME that you are thinking of her. In the end, I am the one doing "damage control".

DenverGram, you are an Angel, and doing everything Right by your Mom! Yes, it is struggle, many of us here are in your same boat, being the only ones who are picking up the slack, while the other siblings just assume whatever they wish to assume, that your Mom hs PLENTY OF MONEY, and that she no longer has any emotional needs that they could be fulfilling, by simply giving her a cheerful call, or a nice card or gift in the mail, to lift her spirits now and then.

It's not nice, it's not fair, but there you have it. It normally does come down to only one, You! We are in the same boat here!

Have you tried calling your siblings, and asking them to do just that? A call, and visit, a card or gift in the mail? It's not that difficult! She is their Mother too!

I'm so sorry you are in this situation, where others lay all the burden onto your shoulders, But in the end, you will know that you were there for her. Maybe your siblings will have guilt that they did not do enough, and maybe they won't, but you will know, that you did everything possible, to make her ending years, the best that you could! Good on You! You are a very good person, Know that!

You have every reason to be concerned because people do use their positions of caregivers to steal from the elderly. Sadly, this is all too common. POA for instance may use their position to influence a person in their care and they may also manipulate paperwork and make themselves beneficiary despite the elder having surviving children, especially those who may be struggling and need a boost. In some cases of abuse though, sometimes survivors of childhood abuse might have certain rights. This can be a complicated matter where survivors may not even know their abusive parents are still alive until things unfold. By time things unfold and everything is gone it seems like it may be too late but sometimes it's not. Yes, sometimes someone who stepped into the picture ends up stealing from the rightful heirs despite not being entitled to it. I wish stealing from the elderly was not common or even unheard of, but sadly it's not and we just never know the situation at hand.
It's very important to keep very close records anytime you're handling someone else's affairs, but sometimes this may not be that easy in today's busy world. However, recordkeeping must be done or else red flags will be obvious. Red flags can also appear despite records being kept because stealing can still happen.

I don't know your situation. However, see if the person taking care of the elder will start communicating and proving they're not stealing. If they can't do one or both and they seem to allude you, that's a big red flag something's going on. If you're feeling right now that something's going on, you're probably right. Listen to that feeling because that feeling is usually right even if you can't explain it right now. If others are stressing that somethings wrong and others are saying the same thing, listen to them, believe them, they may know something you don't

My heart goes out to you, I lost my mother suddenly 2 years ago and my older sister not only took what little she had she continued collecting my mothers CALPER retirement check for 5 months and would still had I not called and informed them she had passed. Sadly nothing was done about it.

I am in the same boat.... I quit my job 3 yrs ago and moved mom who is now 93 dimentia/Alzheimer's. My brother and I are POA. My name is on all of her accts.the first yr I did not pay myself but my brothers insisted that I get paid.mom pays for groceries from time to time but we pay all bills and most of grocery. I have a sibling that does nothing!!!! Never even calls, she was taken off PIA 12 yrs ago because mom didn't trust her, but she will be the first to have her hand out. I save all receipts for her meds and anything else she might need. If siblings think they can do better then go ahead!!! Do they not realize putting mom in a home would cost thousands!!!!! I think they feel guilty so they lay all that crap out in us!!!!

I have been off this site for a while due to life's busy schedule - I see my last post was about 7 months ago. Since that time my sister has retired and now supposedly goes to visit our mom 3 days/wk. She also has a caregiver that stays with her for the mornings that my sister is not there. So my mom took a bad fall back in February of last year, and broke two bones. I flew out to stay with her for a week at my sister's request in March because she had a trip planned. So I spent pretty much all day every day there with her at the nursing/rehab facility. I catered to her every need, which seemed never-ending, even though there were care staff coming in throughout the day. But I did it gladly and cheerfully and enjoyed my time with her. I live out of state, so don't get to see her as often as I'd like. The worst part of it truly was the temperature they kept the room at...I was suffocating and sweating from the heat - at least the hallways were a little cooler. Anyway, after a week of doing everything I could think of to make her comfortable, keeping her company, catering to her every whim and need, my sister called her while I was there in the room. She must've asked my mom what she had been doing, and my mom responded with "Well "I" went for a walk up and down the hallways and "I" saw my old friend Lucille was staying here so "I" went to visit her, and "I" ate in the dining room, and..." and on and on without ever mentioning that I had taken her for walks in her wheelchair, I had taken her to visit her friend, I had gotten her to the dining hall. It was like a slap in the face to me, like I wasn't even there! I had spent close to $1k to fly out there, rent a car, stay in a hotel for the week, etc. Apparently in order to keep my sister's devotion (my sister and I are not on speaking terms) our mom has to show her loyalty to her over me. I was hurt and insulted, but didn't call her on it and let it roll off my back like every other time she has marginalized me. Anyway, I am a sensitive person and have a hard time getting past this type of emotional gamesmanship. Another thing is that now when I call my mom and the caregiver is there, she ends the call with "Oh I love you so much and miss you so much!!" But when the caregiver is not there, she just says a regular goodbye with no feigned expression of love. This bothers me a lot as well. I know this seems petty and all, but it nevertheless affects me. I feel like I'm not even her daughter anymore. But the more this kind of thing happens, the more distant I feel and the less likely I am to stay involved. I'm not the kind of person to force myself into someone's life if I get the feeling they don't want or appreciate me. How can I get past this? I know many of you will think this is a trivial issue, but I can't help the way I feel. I feel excluded by the "team" that is my mother and sister. I also think it bothers my mom that she can control everyone with her money except me...I don't need it and she knows it. I would love to let my mom know how I feel but at the age of 87 I just don't think I should expect her to care how I feel and it would just lead to more problems. Any ideas or suggestions?

2nd best 's post was very enlightening. So for siblings tat are not that involved...there's usually a reason they don't want to get too close. Thank you for that, 2nd best. I hope others have picked up on that.

myles. husband is a retired medical professional and i am on disability for depression. luckily if i am at the end of my rope he takes over dinner and meds and i go to sleep for a few hours. but my two daughters never call, never help - i recently called my older daughter out of state to tell her grampa was in the hospital and then rehab and to call him. she didn't BUT is extremely suspicious that i am on the checking account. my younger daughter visits about once a month with my ex husband who would do anything i needed and my step-daughter will come and stay with dad for pay which she well deserves since he makes her work the whole time while directly her efforts. but we've had one weekend off in 3 years.even in rehab he calls constantly to get him out, bring all sorts of un-needed junk so i'm out there every day for 3-4 hours. not a break. i'm busily looking for a part time job because even pooling our resources we're out of money. our rent is double but he won't think of moving. do i get paid? no, but i make sure we have what we need in the way of food and clothing, all of us, and if medicaid doesn't like it they can screw it. as long as we have enough left to bury him that's fine. he'd make it about a week in a nursing home anyway, he lost 10 pounds in 2 weeks this last round of rehab. the best i can do is take it one day at a time. i'm an only child so am the beneficiary of all the assets anyway and i'd rather they are used to take care of all of us (when pooling resources my husband and i make $3000 and dad gets $1900) our rent is $2300 so we're dipping into savings every month. i'll have to sock away enough to pay a mover - nobody will help and we both have back problems) and work to stop the savings drain. but i have no clue what people do when they've spent down everything and a nursing home is out of the question. so then he dies...how do you pay for the funeral?

If you're concerned, definitely go for guardianship right away. You can see if the bank can block access to your sister and just limit access to the owner until you get guardianship. What you may want to do is speak to the bank manager and explain what's going on, and if possible, take your mom with you. If your mom agrees, you can even move her money to a new account with you as the trustee. You would also be able to make bill payments on her behalf. I don't know just how competent your mom is, but it would be a very good idea to put some legal protections in place before it's too late. In so many cases, vultures often steal from the elders and families don't find out until it's too late. That's where lawyers come in handy to help you fight to get back what was wrongfully taken, and consequences on vultures can be severe. Finally, if you have that nagging feeling something's wrong, you're probably righ. Listen to that feeling and act on it. I used to ignore those feelings thinking they were all just in my head when one by one each one of those feelings turned out to be right with each situation I got a feeling about. I don't know why it took so long for me to finally start trusting and listening to those gut feelings, but I eventually and very reluctantly started slowly trusting them. The first time is very hard, I can tell you that for a fact. Each time you trust your gut feeling about something, each time gets easier and easier. Eventually you'll be able to use hindsight as a teacher because those gut feelings are not all in your head. Take steps to protect your mom and her finances now while you're ahead before it's too late and someone robs her blind. You want to find out how your sister got on those accounts in the first place. See if your mom may have actually put her on there and maybe even gave her POA. If this was the case, ask to see those records to prove where the money went and how it was spent and on whom it was spent. If your sister can't or won't show you records, that's a big red flag, and you should go for guardianship. Another thing you'll probably want to do is call the APS and report possible financial abuse. Better yet, just show up at the APS office with any records you have to prove any possible financial abuse. If there is financial abuse, you should make a police report about it, then get an eldercare lawyer through your state bar association. Get one that works on contingency and only gets paid if you win. Lawyers can be hard to get, but a good one will only take the case if there's a strong winnable possibility.  if you and the lawyer can contact the bank about blocking access of your mom's account to your sister, do so right away, especially if there are large amounts of money missing that your mom did not give your sister. It's one thing if the owner grants you permission to have half of the money in the account, another to just go behind their back and just take it. Anytime you have a joint account, the co-owner has equal rights to the money. This is the downfall because there don't seem to be any limits under the law. I think the law should state that if someone put you as a guest on their account, there should first be open communication about money and  fluctuating needs if money is tight one month but there's a better budget the next month. Money should be the conversation between account owners every single month after everyone pays their bills. The conversation should be about what's left in the account  after everything is paid after the most important bills. Things such as groceries and other personal needs should be covered first and that money should already be spent on those goods. What's left over should be discussed between account  corners. Lack of communication can cause problems and confusion. Not everyone on the account with someone will steal but money can't be mistakenly taken from a joint account when the other party needs a certain amount for something important but that money is already gone. To some point I'm not sure if joint accounts or even a very good idea due to the problems associated with joint ownership. Joint ownership can be abused but not everyone abuses it. Sometimes there's just a lack of communication and money is mistakenly taken and spent, only for the other party to find out later when the money's gone that it was needed. Sometimes that one party who needed the money never really says much of anything other than to complain when for communication should be key to both parties being on the same page about money

I strongly agree with someone on here about calling APS. Please believe when someone says that people can become monsters when they have access to someone else's money and assets, it's true. Yes, people can steal but not everyone does. I'm glad the one poster was saying how the funds were finally recouped. However, not every situation can be caught until after the person dies and inconsistencies are discovered. It's very common to discover suspicious activity after someone dies. Again, not every theft can be caught up until after someone dies. In the case of my bio dad though, there were some inconsistencies discovered. Either way your discover financial inconsistencies, you'll definitely need a lawyer as long as you have records to prove your claim. This is how you can get funds restored to the victim from whom they were stolen. Yes, the APS will also be able to help but the patient will most likely need a guardian if she can't take care of her own finances. If by chance she can, then she needs to start taking care of them herself. I don't know how her bills are currently paid, but the safest way to pay bills is online set up from your end only. When shopping, don't carry cash, use your debit card and run it as credit. As of recent, there's been some local places around here that now allow you to no longer have to type in your pin number with the new micro chip cards. Definitely run your debit card as credit but make sure you have money on your card for that account.

On the other side of the coin, why don't you take care of your mother instead of just worrying about her money. It's nice family thinks care is free when you have to give up your job, your life...everything for 24 hour supervision. I tend to think it is far better to put old folks in nursing homes letting them have all the money instead because siblings always fight over money thinking it's so easy for caregivers because they have nothing to do with the care. All they do is wait like vultures waiting for the elder to die to grab money. By the way, the average cost of nursing homes--one patient--in a double room, is $85,000 a year. That money would have been long exhausted before Medicaid will kick in..which means she won't be allowed to have any more than $2,000 in the bank. And she will still be responsible for miscellaneous costs such as transport to doctors, etc. So if you are so worried about your mother as you claim, *you* take care of her. All of her care. See how it's like.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about joint bank ownership in past posts on this thread, so thought I would clarify with what I learned on the subject. My sister got her name on our mother's bank accounts immediately after our father passed away. I spoke to the bank and also the IRS about ownership and any tax consequences. The way it works is essentially they BOTH fully own the funds in the account while both are living, either can spend all of the money, and upon death of one joint account holder, 100% of the funds in the joint account belong to the other joint account holder. This ownership overrides whatever is spelled out in the Will, so a few people on this thread may have an unpleasant surprise coming to them thinking the Will will distribute all of the funds equally among beneficiaries. The funds in a joint account are not considered part of the estate if the other account holder is still living, so they bypass the Will. This is a simple way that devious siblings can hijack their sibs' intended share of their inheritance. I asked an IRS agent about tax implications and they told me that any funds my sister spends on herself out of the joint account while my mother is living become "gift" income to her at that point. The funds spent by her on herself would have to be reported as a gift on my mother's tax return, but would only be taxable after they exceed the $11 million lifetime gift exemption, which in our case won't occur. This works the same for POD (payable on death) designation on a bank account. Once the account holder passes away, the funds are directly distributed to the named POD's on the account...it can be one person or several. This POD overrides anything spelled out in the Will as it is not considered part of the estate. Hope this helps clarify this sometimes tricky situation.

2ndBest - I am sorry for whatever might be happening in your situation, a sibling taking advantage of your parents money. I, however, am on the other side. I am on my parent's account because I pay their bills and they no longer have the mental capability of handling their finances or any other aspect of their lives. I have siblings. They do nothing. I am left holding the ball. I have never spent a nickle of my parents money on myself, let alone take $$ for providing care on a daily basis. I guess what I want you to understand is that there are a few good ones out here. We are doing the work, we provide the care and handle everything. Every family situation is different. I hope you are wrong about your sister. If not, doing the research isn't enough. You need to hire an elder care attorney now. Don't wait! I have a sibling who will sue me when my parents are gone because they are so desperate for $$$. There isn't any left. NH got most of it. And they will find no wrong doing. Whatever is left, will be split equally among the siblings. I'm good with that. I can sleep at night. Good luck!!

-SS

SelfishSiblings...thanks for your response and you are so right...every family situation is different. I am so happy to hear you are doing an honest job of caring for your parent, and greatly admire you for that. I would be doing the same thing but I live 600+ mi away and work full time. The difference between you and my sister is your honesty...something she totally lacks. At one point I had considered hiring an eldercare attorney but decided it wasn't worth the emotional pain it would cause my mother. She would be devastated and I would be thought of as a greedy vulture. All it would do is provide material for my sister to demonized me with. I came to the conclusion that since I don't need the money anyway, I would just let it all play out however the chips may fall. The hardest thing for me to face would be my sister telling me, after my mom dies, that she didn't want me to have anything. I am pretty sure my mother wants everything divided equally among us four siblings, and that is enough for me. If I get nothing in the end it will be because my sister's evil deviousness, not because my mother purposely excluded me. That is the most important thing for me, not the money itself. So I have backed off and accepted that it is out of my hands. My mother trusts my sister no matter what sneaky, evil, conniving thing she does - so I can't change that. "There is none so blind as those who will not see." My sister is and always has been the liar, thief and manipulator in the family. But my mother has always been her devoted enabler and defender. Sad situation for our family, but life is easier for me when I accept how things are - since I have no power to change them anyway.

SelfishSiblings...a little side note I wanted to mention. My sister is supposed to be paying all my mom's bills out of my mom's bank account. On a visit to see my mom a while back I was staying in a room at her AL home and called her (my mom) on her land line one morning to make plans for the day. I got the "the number you have dialed is no longer in service" recorded message. So I walked over to my mom's apt and asked her why her phone had been disconnected. She was unaware that it had. So she called my sister, who had just returned from a week-long vacation, and asked her about it. She said "well, the bill is on my coffee table so I guess I need to pay it". She had let the bill go unpaid and delinquent for who knows how long?? Then my mom's monthly credit card statement came in the mail and she had me open it for her. It had a $600 balance on it from the prior month and showed that $100 payment had been received. She had told my sister to always pay off the total balance on her statements each month. So she called and asked my sister why she only paid $100...some lame excuse is what she gave her. So my theory, although I have no real proof, is that my sister is supplementing her income using my mother's money and letting my mom's bills go unpaid or partially paid. This disturbs me greatly, but my mother is totally trusting of her exploitive daughter. It is a concern that if my mother needed to call 911 during the time her phone was disconnected unbeknownst to her, that could have been a life and death crisis. But my mother can never see the truth about what is going on with my sister. If I raise a scene about it, or even question my sister's actions, I am the "bad guy". So I conclude that my mother is happy with the "care" she gets from my sister and I should stay out of it to keep the "peace".

2ndBest- Ouch. I think it is up to you whether you want to interject or not. You could contact the housing authority in her town/city with your concerns. Sounds like you might not have direct contact with your sister. I know I don't!!!

Yes, you are right - I have no contact with my sister. I cut ties with her about 10 yrs ago after my father's death. Long story, but I realized she was a deceitful and evil person so I decided I was done dealing with her and her lies. It was the right decision for me, although it has been difficult for my mother to accept. But I had to save myself.

I have grandma living with me for various reasons, yet her daughter (not living here) is the one with a card to gma's accounts and has grandma's "cash savings" at her house in her safe. I constantly question where grandma's money is going, but know just little enough to be suscpicious and not enough to get a good idea without making it a blow-up, accusatory event (because of personalities involved). I feel for you, and hope you can have an open discussion with your sister. Keep in mind it does take a lot out of someone and often not all expenses are made up by the elder "paying rent" (think of lost work, utilities, gas to and from medical appointments, emergencies, etc) if your sister is the primary care giver.

Try for an open discussion, stress concern for your parent's living expenses and savings for emergencies. This may be a discussion you have to find the right time for, back off when it gets heated, and try again multiple times. It's what I'm currently going through, and I know it isn't easy. Best of luck putting your mind at ease and looking out for the elders in your family.

I don't know if your mom is competent and I don't know the rest of the situation. However, if your mom is competent and actually gave the money to your sister, I'm not sure there's going to be much you can do.

If she's competent but doesn't know about the transactions, maybe it's time to tell her as long as you can prove this is going on. Do you have access to her bank statements? If so, you might want to show her the fraudulent transactions and what would help is to highlight them with a highlighter marker. Let your mom decide for herself what she wants to do but support her decision as hard as it may be if it happens to be a bad decision.

If she's not competent, there is a lot you can do. But the fraud to the bank, the APS and get an eldercare lawyer and go for guardianship but be careful not to abuse your powers because there are predatory abusive guardianships going on that people really need to be very wary of. What you can do is see if the bank is able to act on your mom's behalf to block access of your sister to your mom's bank account. This may need to be done with the help of an eldercare lawyer. Don't wait too long to act, do it now before all of her money is gone and she has nothing to take care of her needs. You don't want that to happen so I act fast and act now. if you have trouble finding a lawyer, just keep calling around and don't give up. The quickest way I found to get my story around two as many lawyers as possible is to type my detailed story into my device notepad, I work on an iPad. Persistence is key and sooner or later someone will listen and take your case. Sometimes it's very hard to find a lawyer right away but don't give up and don't lose hope. The best way I know how to describe how hard it was to find a lawyer is during the long months I got discouraged, it kind of feels like you're suspended in mid air trying to find something to grab onto and can't as you keep spinning around in circles looking for a lifeline. At some point I found myself down in the dumps feeling helpless and hopeless until I found my lawyer at the Ohio state bar association. Help's out there though it may not be around when you absolutely need it but it will be found at the right time though it may not be in your time. Don't give up and don't wait too long

The joint owner on the bank account not sharing info is a big red flag something is going on that shouldn't be because like someone else on this thread mentioned, if there's nothing to hide then why is she not sharing info? Another question is why doesn't your mom have online auto bill pay set up from her end? Banks offer this for a reason. It's not just to make our lives easier but it's there to protect us and even eliminate the need for a POA or anyone else to touch your money because there's no guarantee that whoever takes over your financial matters will pay your bills on your behalf with your money. Just from your description says that someone your mom is supposed to trust is quite possibly mismanaging her money and maybe even stealing from her. Ever wonder why online auto bill pay is there? Look at your situation and then look at online auto bill pay. I have online auto bill pay and would never let anyone touch my money and no one's taking advantage of me! 

Resolve the problem

What you can do is alert the bank something is going on and have them look into it. The best thing to do is to take your mom in if possible and sit down with a personal banker to discuss the issue. The bankers can look into the matter to see if there's anything suspicious, and if there is they can take preventive steps to protect her, and one of them is limiting access to the joint owner. Another would be to remove them from the account. One thing that may come up is the possibility of online auto bill pay set up from your end. I really like this service because you don't have to go rushing around on pay day nor do you have to write checks or money orders. If this elder has been the victim of fraud, the three major credit bureaus can be contacted and a fraud alert can't be put on her credit accounts and they can even be frozen. People are often scrupulous and will stoop so low as to steal the identities of our elders and even our deceased and children. This is why it's a good idea to lock down any identifying info. Info sources include drivers license or state ID, phone and utility bills along with other important bills, along with medical records, etc. I would definitely go for the three major credit bureaus and lock down her credit just in case someone has opened a new account in her name. If they did, I would look for the bills such as new credit cards and other accounts for which billing info comes through the mail. If you spot anything like this in her mail, contact everyone of those places in the customer service department and close all of those accounts after first locking down her credit with the three major credit bureau's, just freeze her credit

Special mention

Keeping someone's life savings in cash and a safe instead of the bank is a huge red flag and as someone mentioned, where is grandma's money really going? Yep, big red flag! It sounds like you're getting a feeling somethings just not right. If you're getting this feeling, you're probably right because somethings just not right though you may not know what it is but you have every right to be concerned, very concerned

There will always be one in the family accusing another family member of stealing money. And it is most often the one who shares no responsibility in the care giving. You guys come out of the woodwork when there is money involved. But, when you are asked to help you're always too busy, got other things to do, you don't have time. Your sister is taking care of your mother and making sure her bills get paid. When was the last time you helped your sister take care of your mom????? Or did your boyfriend come first?

Consider doing a power of attorney to be responsible party for all her assest.

Be up front with her. Tell her you're interested in what's going on. Go over the books together with her on a weekly basis. Tell her you need to see a budget. That way, whether it be small or large expenses, you'll know ahead of time.

Are you also on the checking accounts? Do you have access to the bank statements? If not, I'd do what I could to at least have access to the statements then work from there.