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Libracat, also, this is a site for venting. I am sure you didn't need the lectures. Just don't give up. Many on this site are very kind. You don't owe anyone an explanation. As I said, I do feel where you are coming from. This is not just about keeping your mother in your home, it is about the lifetime leading up to it.
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Ceejay - The nursing staff, social workers, aids, etc. at nursing homes are not "supposed professionals" - think that is kind of a harsh statement - as is saying the residents are ignored and not tended to as they should be. Good for you that a nursing home is a LAST RESORT. I 'm capitalizing to reiterate your post. My experience is to have met highly educated, loving and caring true professionals who go above and beyond for their patients. My mother is in a top rate facility and I have never observed that of which you speak. Of course, as with anything else, there are exceptions. So, in support of some of the kindest and hardest working people I have ever met; I commend them for a job well done. And, no, I am not just saying this because my mother is in a facility. Just stating the facts.
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Also, 3pinkroses, I am sorry for your situation, I feel for you. You are very kind and your comments kind. I have twins who are RNs working in large hospitals and I know how people can be so unkind to medical professionals. The hospitals and nursing facilities are so understaffed and overworked. It is the management style of the day. Make more money for the hospitals and stock holders and have less personel. And the personel often gets littlel support. Take care.
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For Libracat, what I think most people don't understand is that we have been hardwired since we were wee children to think that our worth comes from what we do - not who we are. Cattails is so right about the post war generation. They were raised to honor their parents, and raised us the same way, but they are living decades longer than their parents. I think we're struggling with what does "honor" mean? As kids in the fifties, it meant absolute respect for grown ups no matter what they said or did to you (many of us hid abuse) it meant the kids were responsible for most of the chores in the household (that was our extracurricular activities), it meant get good grades or you got beat (not a private tutor to help you find your way). We lived for our parent's approval and it was not given easily. So we're absolutely hard wired to this obligation to care for them. While sometimes I find the younger generation a little "entitled", they have a much better sense of self worth than we do. I think they will find a much better balance in caring for us when we are elderly and I say good for them. I don't want my daughter to go through what I have been through. So there's nothing wrong with you that you feel this overwhelming responsibility to care for her, there's nothing wrong with you that you feel like a little girl that has "failed" again to please your parent, there's nothing wrong with you that you have a hard time putting your finger on "why" you put up with it, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you, you're just doing what you have been programmed to do.
Now as far as the situation you are in...I am there too. I cared for my mother, in her own home, for 8 years. Did her laundry, cooked her meals, cleaned her house, took care of her financially, took her out on outings, sat with her for numerous hospitalizations, ER visits, dr. visits. Just doing what I was programmed to do. Then she told my siblings I was abusing her. Similar complaints - I did try to talk to her about not living on sweets, about the importance of doing her physical therapy, about unsanitary conditions in her home. I was just doing what I was programmed to do - which was to do a good job taking care of my elderly mother. My post war generation mother treats this as though I am a small child "talking back" to her - her programming is that I owe her undying compliance even though I'm the one that will have to sit with her for hours on end in the ER with a CHF event after she downs all the sodium rich food she can lay her hands on. Plus, I think she wanted my siblings' attention and this was a way, within her now limited powers, to get it. Now my siblings have disowned me and are sending hate emails to my pregnant daughter about her "toxic, volatile mother". My extended family is irretrievably lost to me.

Here is what I did. Find a therapist and let go with love. You can honor your mother without giving up your life. You are a special person with huge value and your value is not contingent on whether you or not everything you do pleases your mother. Let her make her own choices and let her have the consequences of her own choices. My mother now has in home help. I visit her only when her aide is present. No one will ever be able to accuse me of anything again because there is always a witness - and I am, and always have been, sweet as pie to my mother, even though she was not really a very good mother to me (alcoholic, abusive environment). I encourage you to work with a family therapist to sort this out. You have a right to take care of yourself and you can take care of yourself and protect yourself... and still honor your mother. You kind of have to reboot and reprogram all that hardwiring. Most of us couldn't live with a spouse who demanded blind obedience and treated us as a small child whose needs were subserviant to theirs. Why would anyone expect that we're obligated to live with an elderly parent that demands that of us? Its okay to assert your rights, it is not disrespectful, it is not a failure to honor your parent. I don't know what the right answers are for your situation - that lies within you - but please find a path where you can love your mom and honor your mom and still love and honor yourself.
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Soverytired: My heart goes out to you for all you've been through. I'm sorry caring for your mom has cost you so much personal loss. Actually, my heart goes out to everyone who has a difficult parent who demands, hurts and punishes the child who is trying to care for them. It's hard enough with a cooperative parent.
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Soverytired, that was an amazing response. You have lived the life some of us know and understand and have found the way to get through it. You are terrific.
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Document everything! I've been doing that on the advise of my sister in law, she's a certified caregiver. I'm currently caring for my MIL with vascular dementia, she does all kinds of things, gross and now has been falling because she refuses to use walker. And she absolutely won't listen to me. But when her son or daughter are around she does everything they tell her! So THEY think she does nothing wrong! As soon as they leave she will take her walker and put it in her room then she's off wandering all over getting into stuff! I'm going nuts!
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Soverytired, thank you very much for taking the time to provide that articulate response. For those of us who haven't been there and haven't seen anybody up close and personal who has, it is perplexing to see posts from people who are in abusive situations and who continue to stay in them, post after post. You have provided some insight into "why," and that is helpful. I'm ignorant but I'm willing to learn. :-D

Your advice for seeking therapy sounds right on target. What hideous brainwashing to overcome.

I know a lot about dealing with dementia, and some about relating to "normal" edlerly parents. I think I'll stick to participating in those topics.

Thanks again for calmly sharing your insights.
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Cattails: I'd love to hear your explanation as to why you think I have an "attitude problem" - I'm not going to defend myself on here by saying that I'm a good and patient and kind person (I don't have to: my actions speak for that and I am just baffled at/venting about her behaviour) and, by the way, this IS a site for caregivers to tell their stories - isn't that what we are all doing here? Excuse me, but that's what I thought the purpose of this site was -- caregiver support and a chance to air our feelings!!
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RIGHT ON, soverytired!! Thank you.
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libracat, you have done nothing wrong. I can't tell you how many threads on here I have seen where someone gets "snippy" with someone. It is easy to do because we don't see each other face to face, and misunderstand. I got taken to task by someone on another thread over politics, politics for goodness sake. We don't even need to get into that can of worms. They called me everything, commie, socialist, etc. heck, I am a registered Republican, but can't I have a different opinion? We all have to have a thicker skin and alot more compassion.
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It feels like a re-victimization when people say to us "why do you put up with it?" "why do you stay?" (You have to wonder why they don't ask "Why doesn't she stop abusing you when you do so much for her?) But as jeanniegibbs says above, it's an enlightenment issue, it's not that these site members are trying to hurt us. (And btw, jeanniegibbs, you provide wonderful, insightful, compassionate responses all the time, I love your responses). When your self esteem has been trampled to the ground since you were a toddler, when your omnipotent parent's approval (as all parents are omnipotent to their kids) is elusively withheld from you and then granted to you in small honeymoon periods, you survive your childhood by constantly trying to adapt your behavior to what you think your parent wants. You adopt a belief that it's your fault because surely you can make them love you if you just get the behavior right. You develop a belief that you can control how they feel about you and react to you with your behavior, with your good deeds. We do not develop a true "self"- a true capacity to make choices based on what we want, because our very survival as children is based on making choices of what we think the parent (and ultimately others) want. And that becomes your programming. You believe that the things that you do (not who you are) are the way to control your parent (and ultimately others) into loving you, into reacting to you the way you want. The truth is we can't control another person into liking us or loving us or responding to us the way we want them to respond. We just have to get to know our self, what our self is willing to do and not willing to do, we have to accept our "self" for who we are and accept others for who they are. We aren't children anymore. And I can tell you if I read this a year ago, even 6 to 8 months ago, I would think it was preachy, I would think that's ridiculous, of course I love myself, I am an extremely loving and giving person because I'm always doing for others, I'm always sacrificing for others. It has taken me a year in therapy (and I'm still working on it) to start acknowledging that I have needs and that now I'm the responsible adult that has to make sure those needs are met. You are truly a loving and giving person who has probably spent a lifetime loving and giving to others. It's time to give that love to yourself, without shame, without guilt, give yourself the unconditional love that was denied to you as a little girl.
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Wow, soverytired - that was an amazing post - what wisdom you have acquired - your words spoke to so many of us - just truly inspiring.
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Soverytired: thank you so very much for articulating what I couldn`t put into words.
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SVT: I don't think your thoughts and expressions are preachy at all, especially when you deliver your information in such a loving manner. Even someone who is in the beginning stages of self discovery could take in your message, because you share it in such a personal way. It's your journey that you are sharing and how you have found your truth and reclaimed your life. There are gold nuggets in it for all of us.

Libracat: There are times when I say too much. The attitude I referred to came from some of your responses to posters who are just trying to be helpful. This is not a challenge about who could prepare meals 365 days a year in the manner that you do. No one was suggesting that your mom is starving and we are all happy to cut you some slack. And cutting people slack works both ways.

I asked why you keep your mom in your home because I wanted to understand how you see it. I was not trying to re-victimize you make you defend yourself. I am sincerely interested in how you feel and how you see your obligation in your mom's care.

I have read your other posts and your words were very powerful in describing a horrific situation and I was left to understand that your life was a living hell and you felt you had no control over it.

I think one of the reasons your previous posts struck me was because I also dealt with a difficult mom. Not as difficult as yours, but enough to leave me feeling like a child again at times. Why did I continue to do it. It's because I didn't feel like I had a choice. Of course I did, but once we moved them up here and into the house we built next door for them then the choice was gone. My parents needed assistance on a daily basis and they had very limited assets. They had put those assets into the building of the house. My brother and I also put funds in to build the house for them. So in my mind, this was their home and what had been done had been done.

I also see myself in what SVT has to say. I can relate to everything she says and I actually thought I had conquered those demons some years ago; but having your parents in such close proximity can really open up some wounds.

We can learn a lot about ourselves in the care giving process, but we can do it sooner by looking inside and asking ourselves some difficult questions. Having a good therapist to help us on the journey is insightful and comforting.
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What good comments here. In my situation I kept going back to mom hoping she would change, would see my point of view, would have compassion, would do the right thing. It never happened. It took me several years to realize not only would she not change, but would invent more lies to cover her other lies. Never take accountability for her actions. Then I changed. I have boundaries, know what I will and will not do. For the first time in a long, long time I feel free.
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Bs if she acts good when the other relatives are their she knows what she is doing and if she will not use her walker when you are in charge just ask her once to use it and when she falls call 911 she will have to live with her decisions not to be careful and when she gets hurt falling maybe the other relatives can care for her-it sounds like she is playing games-you have to learn to detach from her.
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Here's another prospective of how things with my folks could have played out a bit differently. This is perfect world thinking, but it does go through my mind often. What could I have done differently to help my parents and also protect myself. First of all, I wish when my dad had his first stroke in 2002, I would have been thinking forward and learning all there is to know about Medicaid and the look back period. My brother and I supplemented my parents income, since my dad could no longer work and they didn't manage money well. Had I known then that it was unwise to send them money as it would inflate their income, my brother and I would have still helped them, but we would have paid their bills directly, from our personal checking accounts and not inflated their income with our monthly contributions.

I would not have got hooked on the building a house on our property for them. I did that because they had always lived on acreage and had their two big dogs and because, after retiring, we had 10 acres and felt they would love the environment, which they did.

It might have been better not to move them up so soon, but to wait until THEY truly realized that they had one foot in the hospital/poor house and another on a banana peel. As it was, they still had this delusion that they had options. They didn't, but it might have been better for them to actually realize that and then they might have found less to grumble about. I was more about being preemptive, getting them here before a total crisis.

If we had not done the house on our property thing, I could have possibly found them a place with a large fenced yard for their dogs. I could have started the Medicaid process and even if my brother and I had to pay their rent until Medicaid was resolved, my brother and I would have been so many thousands of dollars ahead. I'm sure we would have each saved a minimum of $100,000.00.

With my parents qualified for Medicaid, they would have had access to a home care provider for 5 hours per day, 5 days a week and that would have given me some space, not just from their care, but from their proximity to every minute of my life.

Nevertheless, my mom would have still had a cancer diagnosis in 2006, she would have still broke her hip in 2008 and passed in December of that year. My dad would have still had his stroke last July, but maybe not living under our roof at this time.

Without the additional house on our property, we would have been $$ ahead, only had to maintain one house and my husband could have put his shop exactly where he wanted it to be, across the driveway from our place.

None of these thoughts make any difference in the reality of my husband's and my lives as they are now, but maybe.....just maybe, I might run across someone who is contemplating moving their parents up to live by them. If they ask me what I think, I hope I can share my experience in the same manner that SVT shares hers. I don't think I will be listened to, but I would be willing to support them through the good times and the bad.

Let me also add that I don't think I could have ignored my parents need for help. I'm the oldest and my sibs were and still are all working full time jobs. The focus was what do we need to do to keep mom and dad safe and get them the care they need. With our parents permission, we chose a course. In hindsight, I might have done it differently, but I would not have abandoned them.

So we all live and learn and have an opportunity to share with others.

Hugs, Cattails.
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Libracat: Getting back to your original question. Be open and honest with any complaint investigation. I'm sure it is embarrassing, but you've done your best to make her happy and that's all you can do. It will become obvious that she lives quite well. Many elderly people love to complain. Gossiping to others is their way of feeling alive.

Assisted living is another option.
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Cat I am so sorry that you and your brother were taken advantaged of but what you went through and have related to us will bring forth good advice to others tenfold that is very important to this site-all our unwanted experience helps others go into situations with eyes open. We tend to rush in to help and other's experiences are a God send-you may never know all the help you have done for others but I know it will be appreciated.
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Austin: I don't feel like my brother and I were taken advantage of. We made our decisions because we wanted to help our parents, but over 10 years the costs went way beyond what we could have ever anticipated. Having my parents living here for the past 6 1/2 years became a far greater emotional and physical toll on my husband and I than I expected. Having my dad living in our home now and needing 24/7 care is a very tiring and confining daily experience.

I agree that we tend to rush in to help for any number of reasons, many of which SVT shared. We don't think about ourselves seriously enough or do things in a manner that affords ourselves the space we need to live our lives and maintain an element of privacy and happiness.

If my retrospective views are helpful to others then I'm glad I shared them. Cattails.
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Cat, just show we all do not know what someone has gone through until we have walked in their shoes and you have walk a lot of mile in those shoes.
It really burns me up how much the government system is so messed up! You have to be dirt broke in order for the government to help you out. forget about the middle class people and leave them hanging on a string until they run out of all their assests before they can get any help. This makes no sense to me for I would think the government would want to try and help the middle class to prevent that family being completely needed among the system.
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Lildeb: Yes, the medicaid system can be frustrating. I can understand why they take steps to stop abuse of the system, but when they punish you for giving your parents money to meet their obligations, that's just nuts. We are just doing out best to keep our parents safe. After years of doing for them, when we (I) need help, they say, "Oh , you did that wrong." WTF. What did I do wrong? Well, you should have paid the bills directly instead of giving them the money so they could pay the bills. Any idiot could see that, on the contrary to be sure, my parents are not being taken advantage of. We have not tried to steal their assets. We have kept them afloat for 10 years. We should be getting a medal not a bashing.

Just words to those who can still benefit.
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Anyone have any ideas as to how to deflect/deal with my mother's mean-spirited comments/criticisms/remarks/judgments? It really got out of hand yesterday, and when I kindly point it out to her in order to address it, she denies it, changes the subject then plays the victim and punishes me with the cold shoulder all day.......even noticing that she is playing the cold shoulder allows her to win for it gives her attention and validates (in her mind) that she is right.....so tired of these games and feigned sicknesses.........now that my daughter is expecting her second baby my mother is hell on wheels........
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So...my answer won't "feel" good, but here it is: she only wins if she wins in your mind. If she's mean spirited, the cold shoulder at least shuts her up. There is no way to convince someone like her that you are right, or even a little bit right. She has constructed a world, from all I read about her, that makes her the center pod the universe. And she isn't going to change now.

Don't let anyone try to cajole her out of the cold shoulder, if that is how she plays it. Just make her invisible. Make decisions around her...in spite of her...if she isn't talking. And when she talks, if she is mean, just react the way you have. The change is in not reacting to her reactions.

You know this, I know. You just had a bad day. Which we all have!
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Since she enjoys arguing cut her off by saying nothing make believe she did not utter a word-at least a cold shoulder means she is shutting up for a while-try to find your own space and try to detatch yourself from her craziness-that will hurt a person who loves to argue.
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Thanks, everyone! All good advice......I guess my problem is that because I am a "normal" person (brought up by her to "do as I say, not as I do") I am just flabbergasted by her rudeness, arrogance and smart-a** comments......I think it is their huge sense of entitlement that gives them (they believe) the right to talk to people the way they do. I have seen/heard the way she talks to people in the public. She'll tip the hairdresser $1.00.
Once I said "let's call the supervisor for the physiotherapist and give him a good recommendation" she said, why bother, that's his job.
In the last couple of days, the feistiness and mouthiness has been very hard for me to take. Two days ago, I caught her making a remark to my husband, who was looking for me at home. She says to him, "Oh she's in the kitchen, that's where she runs and hides, it's her hiding place." I heard that and went to address it with her, as I mentioned on an earlier post. When I told her that wasn't a very nice comment, that I don't have to "hide" anywhere and I go to the kitchen to work and to prepare meals for her, and asked her how she would feel if someone said that about her, her answer was "Oh that wouldn't bother me in the least." What BS!!
I tried to point out that that was a hurtful thing to say, and that I didn't appreciate that kind of comment about myself, I of course was accused of being "too sensitive" (those of you who have seen my earlier postings will be aware of this characteristic of gaslighting - a major tactic in narcissism). The end result of this exchange was that she was a punisher all day yesterday and I fell into the trap of asking her what was the matter........which is just what she wanted - and she said, I guess I'm not allowed to say anything (?!) Oh it's all about you, isn't it?
Today the phone rang - loudly and also in her room so she knew it rang - and I picked it up, it was my daughter. As I was talking to her, I heard a click, someone listening for about a half a minute, and then "Oh, sorry" click.
I went into her room when I was finished and asked her if she didn't hear the phone ring (I answer all the calls in my own home - I also pay for this line.)
She said she heard it ring "a long time ago" and I said if you heard it ring, why would you pick it up then, you would know someone was talking on it? Her answer was - get this - "Well that's just too bad". REALLY?? If I had answered her that way as a child, or as a teenager, I would have been on the floor (or worse) in about a half a second .
G-d's teachings say that we are to love a person in spite of their faults. I just didn't realize someone could have SO MANY!! I also looked up the seven deadly sins, and guess what - six out of seven!
195Austin, I will follow your advice as she thrives on arguing and defensive and change-of-subject, deflective behaviour. I could recite many, many more examples of it but how would that help me? I always try to be the bigger, better person, remaining positive and polite but I always get sucked back in by her. If she doesn't get her own way, or what she wants, the comment is "I've been so good to you and your husband and children and this is what I get". Well, you created it!! You can't buy people, or own them but this is what she thinks and how she's learned to operate.
I suppose I shouldn't let her buy or give me anything because then I am obligated to put up with the nastiness, cutting remarks, sarcasm etc.
It's just so sad that she can't enjoy life but instead enjoys hurting the people around her and makes it her agenda to make everyone else as miserable as her! I can't even whistle in the kitchen or play music because that will indicate that I am feeling happy and then she will find a way to knock me down yet again!
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Libracat, I don't have any experience with your mother's form of mental illness, but my experience with dementia seems relevant here. Demented people have lost or are losing their ability to reason. They often believe things that are obviously (to us) untrue or impossible.

What I have learned from my experience and the experience of others and from a lot of reading is that you cannot reason a person with dementia out of irrational beliefs and behaviors. Reason is no longer an effective tool. Arguing about whether they need an umbrella to watch baseball on tv because it is raining at the ballpark is futile.

It seems to me that trying to reason with your mother regarding her irrational beliefs is as futile as reasoning with a person with dementia. It isn't going to do any good at all, and it might even make matters worse.

If my demented husband thought I was hiding in the kitchen, I would never argue with him about it. I certainly wouldn't defend myself against an irrational claim. I have accepted, sadly, the limitations of his thought process. I want to minimize the conflict for both of our sakes.

Your mother is obviously mentally ill. Apparently she cannot be reasoned with any more than my husband can, at least on certain subjects. Her life is a big delusion. One night my husband thought he was an airplane. She apparently thinks she is the center of the universe. These are both delusions. Fortunately my husband came in for a landing on his own (I certainly didn't reason him out of it). Unfortunately it looks like your mother's delusion is permanent.

IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT that your mother's brain is faulty. It is not your fault that you are not able to reason with her and straighten her out. It is the nature of her disease, and not a lack of ability on your part, that prevents you from reaching her.

You are obviously an intelligent, caring, worthy individual. You want, as we all do, your mother to recognize that. I don't think that is going to happen, through no fault of your own. My wish for you is counselling or support groups to help you truly understand that, and come up with more effective coping strategies for dealing with that awful truth.
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Libracat, so sorry about all in your above post and again, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND"!!! I'm glad I came on here this morning before I go to see my mother at the nursing home and have to take her to a doctor's appointment. She acts soooooo much like your mother - My mother is not talking to me and hung up on me last week as she wouldn't listen as I calmly (always calmly) tried to explain something to her that she just didn't want or try to understand. Suffice to say, it has nothing to do with her dementia and all to do with her personality. I did not call her back; but had to yesterday to remind her of the appointment. She was sooooo cold on the phone - icy - ouch - and now I will be on my way for a 3 hours trip to take her back and forth to the doctor. My stomach is already turning as she will be in the car for 1 hour of the trip - while taking her to the doctor.

The nursing staff (and I agreed) not to tell her about the doctor's appointment as they didn't want things to escalate with her for an entire week before appt. By this I mean, she will be more difficult to handle, will lie and say she has symptoms when she doesn't. (This has been going on for 40 years) - so she didn't have dementia then.

Guess what I am saying is even though I am well aware of her personality disorder; mental illness, etc. - it still does feel so stressful not to be able to EVER say how I feel about something without her flipping out or saying she is having a heart attack, or some other made up illness. My family - children and husband don't understand why I can't call her out on the lies, the betrayal, etc.

What really gets to me and confuses me is how when it suits her, she can turn on the charm to anyone - at any given moment. I've developed a thicker skin, but I know in reality I am still fragile within. To NEVER in your life been able to defend yourself verbally (and these are just minor things) - is not normal. It is so dysfunctional and I realize that.

I live 2 hours from her, but she has grandchildren and greatgrandchildren right around the corner from her. Long story short, again nothing to do with dementia) when my brother died 10 years ago, his sons who are in their thirties coordinated his funeral. She didn't like how they did things and was so cruel to them. My nephews are the sweetest, kindest men - very much like my brother and father were. She made grown men cry by her treatment of them. I called them on the phone to try to help them and smooth things over as they were dealing with the death of their father. My oldest nephew then 30, could not stop crying on the phone because of her. Even after allllll this, for years they tried to get together with my mother despite what she had done and she turned them away every time. They have stopped trying. She has two greatgrandchildren she has never met. These kids are so wonderful and they would be visiting her right now if she had not turned them away. So, she is alone except for me - because SHE IS NEV ER WRONG SHE IS A PERFECT PERSON. AND SHE HOLDS A GRUDGE!

And I can never say one thing about this (and I've tried) and she flips out.

She just continues to play the victim, lonely card. Sorry to go on so, it just came out. By best friend has a narcissistic mother as well. It was fate that brought us together at the age of 12, and we've been each others "therapists" for years; about 40 now.

I feel like yelling and screaming at her!!!!!! But, I can't. It is what it is - therapists have told me to talk to her toooo. Even some of them don't "get it".

The reason she saves this behavior for me is that I am the youngest and most easy going and she "trained" me to feel guildty. I don't feel guilty at all, but I am tired of a lifetime of it. Most importantly, this behavior will not be perpetuated by me. That is the lesson here for me. I am a better mother for it as I would never treat my children how she has.
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Libracat: I think Jeannegibbs and 3Pinkroses, have explained the futility of trying to reason with someone who is not capable of accepting reason. It doesn't matter if they have dementia or just a mental condition that renders them incapable of empathy and reality.

There is no point to responding to any negative comments your mom makes. You are talking to the wall and she just takes delight in upsetting you. Like Jeanne and 3Pink say, you are not going to reach her.

Do your best to detach from her. Walk away from unkind comments and don't respond. Put your music on in the kitchen and ignore her attempts to ruin your joy. Take the cold shoulder for the peace it offers. Turn the music up.

Having her in your home will always be difficult. She's just too close and has too many opportunities to inflict pain. I don't know how you have survived for the past 3 years.

Can you get some professional help in untangling yourself from her? I wish I had more to offer you. Hugs, Cattails
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