Can a Health Care Proxy/Power of Attorney prevent me from visiting my dying Mother in Law?

Sarah, that is such an awful situation you are dealing with, my gosh, every time I shake my head at what I am going through, it is a real suffering, and then I hear what others are enduring too, it is amazing. I know what it is like to be alone going through this horror. These neighbors are just judging and gossiping, that is their entertainment, I will not participate in their gossip and lies, they just do not know anything, I am not trying to explain myself to these hateful people, just don't want to waste my energy as is, right now I am trying to heal myself, physically and emotionally. I spoke to my mother on Sunday and she ripped me in pieces, I was put in a tail spin. I guess it is up to you, I don't think anyone would blame you that cared about you for not attending, you just don't need this, enough damage has been done, now try and work through the anger and guilt feelings for your own sake.

Mango9...
This is a really tricky situation. I would suggest that you contact the hospice provider and ask to speak to a social worker who might be able to intervene on your behalf and negotiate with your brothers. I have met hospice social workers who can work miracles. I wish you luck.

So I have slightly different version of the question. One brother has medical POA and and another brother has fudicary POA. My poor mom is dying at home with hospice. They are giving me visiting rights of 2 hrs day. I know there is not legal, but the other one basically has all rights of the house, my moms, until her last breath. It feel like that say 90% is occupancy and they have it. The medical POA is living in the house. When I am not there, nobody is, except a paid care taker. I don't want my mother to take her last breaths alone. It appears out the four children I am the only wanting and willing to be there. This of course is game of power, and I feel powerless. Can the fudicary POA kick me out of the house?

if your husband was shipped back and cannot do the calling of local nursing homes, and/or Hospice facities, then you can, you live there and it not be too difficult to find out just where she is, then you can go visit and at least be able to let your husband know where she physically is. I would think with the short time frame you are talking about, a lawyer would be a waste of Money just for the visitation and funeral. Evidently you do care about your MIL so ask your Mother to attend the funeral with you. and don't sweat the small stuff, the obituary is after the fact. Good luck finding your MIL in time to say goodbye.

Sarah, I'm so sorry you're going through this. Thanks for updating us. We are all in your corner. It's bad enough to try to get through the day without your husband there, now this mess. My heart breaks for you. I also agree with cmagnum that you need to get a lawyer. You can't fix stupid and the proof is that the 'gang' doesn't even listen to the doctor. Prayers and a big hug.

Does your husband have any siblings? Something is not right about this that makes me wonder if there is a will, who the executor is and has the POA had the will changed to benefit her. Sorry to be so suspicious, but this is beyond just bad; I think I'd get some legal advice and have this POA investigated!

Im the original poster...

To answer some questions, my husband is in the Army (overseas) he was permitted by the Army to come home (when the decision regarding the feeding tube was made, but has been shipped back. The POA is a friend of my MIL from childhood. Her neighbors and this friend are all she has for family. The neighbors and the POA/friend are making all the decisions. She is in a nursing home on the hospice floor. They wont tell my husband which nursing home, because they are afraid he will tell me and then I will go. Unfortunately, he wont e allowed home for the funeral. The army gave him a choice: hospital or funeral. He chose to say good bye earlier on. (I cant say I blame him.) No one is denying him access or information (except the exact location) ... he doesn't really have the ability to research/call around to find her. He's angry about this, but feels his hands are tied.

So the reason ... On a Tuesday (few weeks ago) my MIL had babysat my children. I had picked them up with own mother. I was in a rush and running late. I didn't speak to her as much as she would of liked (shes a HUGE talker.) After I left, she went and complained to the neighbors that I never speak to her and that Im very rude.

While we used to be very close, starting last Fall she decided she hated me (the aneurysm was in the emotion section of her brain and could be responsible ... started forming most likely in fall ... so we don't know for sure but suspect her behavior was caused by the aneurysm.) She was super nice to my face and to my husbands, but would trash talk me behind my back to the point of making up vicious lies.

In any event, my MILs aneurysm burst the next (Wednesday) morning. She was suppose to give a ride to a neighbor in early evening. When she still had not arrived to pick her up, the neighbor went over - heard her moaning and called 911. (Fire department broke down the door etc.) The neighbors and POA/friend concluded that my behavior (as described by my MIL over many months) cause the aneurysm to form (due to the stress I caused her). And that I caused her such a HUGE amount of stress (on the previous day by not speaking to her) that I caused the aneurysm to finally burst.

The doctors have explained to her friends MANY MANY times that stress neither causes aneurysms to form nor burst. She was a several pack a day smoker, sedentary with high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high A1C who consumed junk food like it was going out of style. She also allowed her weight to yo-yo up and down (with over a 100 lb span at any given time)

Essentially, her smoking was her primary risk factor ... but all the other stuff just added "phsycial" stress on her body.

They just heard the word stress and decided I caused her stress so I was the cause.

They discount the fact that shes had headaches for MONTHS and had she just went to a doctor ... its very sad.

I am angry over this ... Im not mad at them for not checking on her sooner! Im not blaming them. Even though the doctor said that if someone had found her even an hour earlier shed probably walk way ... instead shes been given a day or two ....

Its killing me.

I don't know where she is and I cant see her. Im a bit nervous about going to the funeral because Ill be alone. Ive already heard that Im being left out of the obituary (despite our still being married.)

sharirose, you sound like a strong woman. I love that quality! Tough love and the support of your husband are a different situation than a power-tripping POA. Your husband/their father is in complete agreement with the steps you take for survival. Good for him that he's able to be supportive! Your post made me smile and I thought I was too depressed to do that. (...from Deliverance and ...Bubba's girlfriend) Thanks and I send hugs and prayers to you.

Please visit CANHR ..its a CA site but it outlines visitation; as long as the patient wants the visitor...Since I'm not sure if this rule/regulation is state or federal it is worth check out in case its federal. If persons wishing to visit harm the patient emotionally et c etc they can be kept away under elder abuse I suspect.

Try having step sons on drugs age late 50's along with their wives. Calling me when I was discharged from the hospital and telling me as soon as I die (the step-DIL) would sue my children for my property because she had talked to her cousin an attorney? Then my step son walks around saying he "was born to kill" Thank God he has no kids of his own. The other step son married someone out of state off the internet first day he met her, who left her kids came to town and promptly called me to inspect my property. I said no thanks. Their Dad is a good man, no drugs,drinking or smoking. Needless to say I am POA. I am not sure where they came from Deliverance? I am an RN, the one sson came to our home (my property in the country) after five yrs of not checking on his Dad at 11:00 PM wanting to see him. Sorry Charlie. His father and I went to the local sheriff told him he is not to come back. In over 30 yrs all they have done is try to intimidate me and now their Dad. Do I want them around """NO. Would you ? They have completely robbed their Mom.
They were divorced (my husband and their Mom) 5 yrs before we met. No relatives want them around. So as POA I am not tolerating their behavior, they will go to jail. 30 plus years is enough for me. I know it sounds mean but people have no idea of what they have done. Some times you have to get tough. My husband was in the service, their Mom let them run the show. She was a nice lady but too soft. Also bad genetics in the family in the ancestors I have been told. They have stolen things, you name it they do it. Next time they can go be Bubba girlfriend in jail or prison. I am down to no tolerance. Sorry but I have developed an attitude that I never want to see the four of them again.

Please get an attorney before its too late. This should not cost an arm and a leg as it is a simple case of visitation and the legalities of same. If it is legal to visit your mother in law I'd sue the POA down the road. Isolation is elder abuse by law! By law!

A POA has only as much power as granted by the patient. You refer to the document as a healthcare proxy, so the individual can make medical decisions only. The POA person has removed a feeding tube and that is under their control. Social decisions are not under the purview of the POA for health care. Visitation will have no medical impact and can not be regulated by a POA for health care. This person can not regulate who attends a funeral - again, this is not a medical decision and not covered by a POA for health care. If you have a lawyer, get her/him to interpret the POA document for the NH staff and hand them the letter. They are being intimidated by the POA's power-trip, but they will back off when your lawyer weighs in on their legal responsibilities.

Well, Sarah, it seems like your question has received very conflicting answers. Who is correct? Or is it different in different states? Is your MIL in a nursing home under hospice care? You can consult an attorney or talk to an ombudsman for the nursing home who should be able to tell you how the situation is handled in your state. As I questioned in a previous post, who is this person with the POA causing such trouble with and your family? It might be helpful to the people on this board to wake them up about who NOT to give such power to!

Yes, she can prevent you from visiting. This POA woman has all the power WHILE YOUR MOTHER-IN-LAW IS ALIVE. Once she is deceased, the POA no longer exists. Yes, you may attend the funeral. Remember, the POA was given to act on behalf of your mother-in-law's wishes. So, it would be as if your mother-in-law says SHE does not want you to visit. With all do respect to Mr. Robbins, a financial planner does not make an attorney. My four siblings (with two POAs) prevented me from visiting our mother unless it was on a schedule they had made up which they found funny. The nursing home was informed with monthly schedules and I complied. However, when mother died, the nursing home did not call my sister who had POA, staff called me. (Once the person is deceased, all bets are off!) A person in hospice is not like the person you knew, and it would be best for you to remember your mother-in-law the way she was. As a nurse, I've seen many deaths, and it can be unpleasant...Do believe this POA woman will be judged by her maker. Hold your head up high, go to the funeral and say nothing to her. Silence is the best revenge.

God grief, who would stand the way of someones final goodbye. Especially since they are in a facility..

You haven't said so I hope you don't mind me asking this question, but WHO exactly did your MIL give her POA to? Some family member relative, friend, neighbor? This is not idle curiosity. Besides the fact that it is unfortunate that your MIL didn't revise her POA, it may also be a lesson to all of us on how to be more careful and naming our POA agent, giving some power hungry person the right to wreak havoc in our families!

Walk up to the front desk. Sign in under your maiden name. Ask to be escorted to your mother-in-law's room. Knock politely, and if the door is answered, be pleasant , happy and cordial. Visit briefly. Tell her that you are glad that she allowed you to visit her. Then say good day ( evening, morning, etc.). Walk out with a smile on your face. Thank the "escort" for assisting you. End of story.

I agree with several writers above. I think you should go with your husband to the nursing home or hospital and assume you will be allowed to visit. If you are prevented by an administer have them write down exactly why your husband is stopped from seeing his dying mother. Then see an eldercare lawyer. I doubt if any facility wants to stop a son from visiting his dying mother on the word of a
POA.

Good luck.

Elizabeth

My Mother's POA would not let me stay in her house and go to the nursing home to feed her, he knew it would be his and he said "NO", it was the house I grew up in during high school. He arranged everything without consulting me or my older brother. All I can say is he let her starve to death and that is on him. BTW I live about 3 and 1/2 hours away and could not drive there each day. I don't think there was a reason for her to die like she did, I had gone to her nursing home and while others were eating, she was not being fed, I gave her some food but she was so weak from lack of food or water. It makes me mad everytime I think of it but she put him in charge but sometimes you have to fight back, wish I had.

Without a restraining order from a judge there is no way for the POA to prevent you from seeing your MIL. That POA can be changed with just a notarized signature from the MIL, so it's too bad she didn't change it to your husband, back when she was able to do so. Your husband should have a talk with his mother and the POA if necessary, to make sure her wishes are being honored. A POA does not mean 'dictator;.

I believe the person in this case your mother in law should be able to have documented what she wants for herself with an administrator or social worker. I am also involved with a sister who is poa of my mom and she made up false accusations against me and threatened to sue me for trying to share health information to help my mom's health. I was her only caregiver for four years. My mom did not choose her poa my sister chose herself. I can't believe how much power they hold. .Go to the administration and see if you can see your mil with your husband even if someone has to be in the room with you and get your mil to state she wants you to be a part of her life now and afterwards. Prayers to you.

as Mr Robbins states being the one with the POA does not give one the right to deny visitation, unless she has some reason she does not want her son and you to visit, and attend the funeral, I would think being a son he would be involved now with that planning. I have POA for my husband but would not stop visitation unless it was detrimental to him. His only child (55 yr old daughter) took him out this year for ONE day ( that's one day since Jan 1) to give him some quality time - my mistake was letting him go. Her & SIL took him to a baseball game amidst 46,000+ people, he was a wreck when he got home & would not even talk to me, blamed me, he hates crowds, and I mean a crowd of 10 is a lot for him. So I do not have to stand behind the POA to put a halt to this type of visitation, but I have told her, breakfast or lunch would be great, if you can spare the time. I just will come up with some kind of reason to limit where and how much time he spends.

As DPOA for my mother, the nursing home has granted my request to bar my cousin from ever seeing or being in contact with my mom. Sound drastic? On the surface, your answer would be, "Yes." However, the cousin kidnapped my mother from a different nursing home, had my DPOA revoked, and then left my mother in an apartment without supervision or medical care. My mom ended up in a psych ward for 30 days, and because she had been taken across state line, I was literally powerless to resume caring for my mother after the cousin abandoned her. These circumstances were extreme, and I will do everything possible to prevent the kidnapping cousin from ever being in contact with my mother again. So, hopefully your circumstances are not so dramatic. Talking to the nursing home administrator sounds like a great first step. The less drama, the better, for you, your mother-in-law and her caregiver. Good luck. Persistence is everything.

Good to know Mr. Robbins.

POA and/or Health Care Surrogacy does NOT give the holder the power to prevent visitation. You and your husband need simply visit with the administrator of the facility. I am sure he/she will help arrange visitation for you.

That's a really good question. I assumed that, as having POA, that I could prevent someone who has been getting my mother extremely aggitated, from seeing my mother until their conduct changes. But, I was thinking that it would only be my personal wishes that the hospital/nursing home/etc staff would be honoring. I don't know if it could be legally enforced or not, but I think that, if the nursing personal consider the relative/friend is causing too aggitation to the patient,endangering the patient, that the nursing staff could call security or the police and escort them out or prevent them from coming into the patient's room. I'm guessing that it can be legally enforced, but I'm not sure. Good question. In your case, Sarah789, I didn't see any mention that the POA thought you were aggitating, abusing, or causing the patient to be endangered. If it's a personal and selfish wish to prevent you from seeing your relative, I don't think the POA can stop you. If this were brought to the attention of the authorities, I think the POA would have to provide a solid reason for preventing you from seeing your relative.

This is a classical example of why there should be a clause for abusive POAs to prevent you from seeing your mother, father, mother in law or whomever, to see a person, without having specific reasons,( with examples, or actual witnesses to substantiate their claim) legally presented to a judge, saying why a relative needs to be stopped from seeing them. They should actually have documentation of what the dying person wants! The laws of POAs can sometime be incomplete, and leading to these abuses...There are so many people out there who abuse their POA, usually people who are mean, vindictive or just plain nasty, to prevent someone dying from seeing someone they probable WOULD like to see!! hope you can get this resolved.

As far as I know, the person with the power of attorney can say where the person lives and what is in their best interest, if she feels that it is in their best interest to not see you I think she can, but you can get an elder lawyer to bring you in front of a judge to make a ruling in your case.

Unless she has a restraining order on you, I don't believe that she can prohibit you from seeing your mother in law or going to her funeral. Is she planning on keeping your husband out too? I would think the two of you could visit together and would go to the funeral together. What a mess, I hope things work out.