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The doctor told my Mom several times she cannot live at home alone. My Mom will NOT let someone live with her. I wouldn't want someone to live with her during this COVID time. At 86 my Mom would not survive COVID. She lives in a city area that has been 'gentrified'. The average age person living in her neighborhood is probably 30. There are 20+ bars within blocks of her home - even one on her block.
I have my own business and work from home. My business does not require 40 hour weeks. My Mom works right along beside me in the office : ) Always has helped me with my books.
I have five siblings, and I keep them up-to-date as much as possible. She calls one of them every other day.
She is agreeing to stay until after Christmas and then re-assess : )!
Thank you for your support.
janice
My Mom for instance, wanted to back to L.A., and had even arranged someone to pick her up at the airport. I had to go so far as to pull up the airline schedule and give her the alternative flights. Essentially I had to call her bluff. I did this many times, but she never followed through.
It may be that you have to let one of your siblings take her back, and let her deal with it herself. Do not offer to go and take care of her there. Let he handle things herself. Eventually something will happen that she will figure it out herself.
In the end she will come to realize that even though she is in her home, it's difficult to function. She'll come around... just give her time.
I cannot believe you had to pull up the flight schedule : ) — bittersweet thought
thank you for taking time to write,
Janice
To expand on the ethics of the thing - and given that you heard this only yesterday, and that you just as much as your mother need time to adjust to her changing circumstances - here are the requirements that support an application for a deprivation of liberty under the Mental Capacity Act 2005 [note: this is UK legislation, but virtually all developed jurisdictions work along the same lines] -
Any intervention must be:
timely
reasonable
justified
proportionate
and ethical
The intervention you want to carry out is the involuntary removal of your mother from her home. A deprivation of liberty is any intervention which affects a person's ability to act freely on his own initiative: putting a seatbelt on a wheelchair which the occupant can't undo himself is a deprivation of liberty. Locking a fridge is a deprivation of liberty. So taking your mother permanently out of her house... is a biggie.
Does this have to happen now?
Is it the most rational way of dealing with the risks?
Is it justified by the level of risk?
Is it a proportionate response to the risks?
Is it ethical? (yes it is, you're not proposing any alternative that isn't in keeping with respect for her human rights. Drugging her so that she forgets that she wants to go home would be an extreme example of unethical!)
Based only on what you've told us so far (for all I know, she might have been putting unopened cans in the microwave or getting lost naked in her back yard at three in the morning), it's the timely and the proportionate elements that need work.
Your mother's cognitive abilities are as yet good enough at least for her to know very well where she is and where she wants to be. She is also able to plan how to act on her wishes. These make it sound as if you have time in hand for more gradual adjustments.
Those adjustments then need to be proportionate: so you look at the risks and address those specifically. Is she wandering? - consider door alarms or entry codes, for example. Is she leaving saucepans on a lit gas cooker? - consider safety devices such as heat detectors, or other measures such as disconnecting the gas and providing alternative means of meal preparation. Is she forgetting to eat, or to wash and change her clothes? - visiting services or AI-enabled systems could help with that.
You've only just been told this, and it is very, very early on in the discussions that need to be had. Don't panic! And for now, today, reassure your mother that ways will be found to help her and keep her safe that also respect her wishes - ask her just to give you time.
I really must be putting out an entirely different picture than what is happening between me and my Mom.
I have to re-read my initial post.
My Mom would not be held against her will - not in her personality.
And I wouldn't hold her down or ever consider "putting a seatbelt on a wheelchair which the occupant can't undo"
All I can say is this is not the situation. I think either you have read much more into the situation or I have done a horrible job or describing it.
Rest assured, I am a firm believer in live and let live -- have always been.
I am at a loss of how to answer these posts.
I HAVE been asking her for time. She has agreed to stay at least until Christmas. She is doing very well.
We both need time to process, ask questions, get more information and love each other.
Before any of the diagnosis, my Mom was getting her papers in order and telling me how to handle things if the time comes that she cannot.
If you write again, I will be glad to keep you posted - mostly so you don't feel so upset by the situation.
Right now, my Mom and I are headed into the 'tv room' to watch some Bob Newhart and maybe a Christmas special.
Take care,
janice
What a pity that he failed to explain to your mother what the implications of her test results were. What a pity that he did not also hand you the necessary documentation that would support your application for guardianship of your mother.
So. Where is her home, who is nearby, and what activities of daily living does she *now* (i.e. not in the future) need support with? Because you'd best get busy setting it up.
As things stand, absent any declaration of your mother's incompetence, guardianship or enforceable Power of Attorney, you have no legal right whatsoever to obstruct your mother's return home. I agree that you do not have to participate in it, but you cannot prevent it.
If you force your mother to remain living with you at the moment, you will destroy her trust in you and wreck your relationship. Looking at her capabilities at the moment, what are the risks of her living alone that most concern you?
I am not forcing my Mom to stay with me. I am reasoning with her and honoring her wishes as much as possible - unless it would mean she isn't safe.
Risks of living alone - she has already left a pot of water on the stove and could not hear it whistle. She has brand new hearing aids we got her in July. She uses them here everyday. She would forget to charge or wear them when she was home. She rearranged her meds and took double blood-thinners for weeks. She lives in a COVID hot spot. She has answered the door and brought drinks to a stranger at the door asking for a drink of water.
She hears things others don't hear and often goes outside to investigate - has gone to the next-door neighbor and knocked - called the police at 2 a.m. because of the noises.
Our relationship cannot be wrecked - no way, no how. We are as close as a mother & daughter can be : ) This IS such a tough situation because we are so close and trusting of each other.
janice
i was brought in to give daughter a break, mom gets to be in her house a few days a week. The daughter has POA and will sale moms house without a hitch from mom as she enters stage 6. Siblings will make a fuss but sister is growing a backbone as the years have gone by and none of them have ever helped, but continue to claim they will. Dementia kindly gives you years to work on all the stuff that the family swept under the rug for years. The idea of saving and doing all that mom wants losses it’s appeal as you give up the life you want for mom. After a few years of doing that, Caregiver will grow some backbone/boundaries and agency to assist mom as POA without loosing her life or mind!
I love llamas too - how can you not?
thanks again,
janice
Any of these excuses may calm her down a bit, because it isn't about YOU telling her she can't go home --it's CIRCUMSTANCES keeping her from going back. Sometimes it works better when there isn't someone to blame.
I HAVE been using COVID - oh boy have I.
You are really on to something about the circumstances part. My Mom doesn't want to be told what to do by anyone. She seems to see me as the enemy when I say she needs to stay, she heard the doctor, etc. She reads the paper about COVID, so a silver lining in the virus is we shouldn't go anywhere for a bit. I am trying for 'at least the winter months.'
I am going to keep this in mind for all kinds of situations as they arise - not the person at fault, but the overall circumstances. Might come in handy with my husband too : )
Thank you,
janice
Thank you for these ideas.
I think my Mom knew way before we did that things weren't quite right. She initiated lots of these things herself over the past year or two - I want you to know where these papers are, what my insurance covers, etc.
You are so right. I need to have as much together as possible. These aren't the things I want to have to try to have a head for as we go through this journey. Better to have the paperwork in order, and ready to go. My Mom has taught me to keep files and she has very organized/labelled files herself. Once again, another time that SHE has taken car of ME. Makes it easy to take care of her.
janice
If being at your house is the only way to stay out of a facility, then it explain that to her while she still has some understanding. Tell her you could get in legal trouble if you just let her return home and something happened to her. Perhaps some of the relatives could pick her up and allow her to spend a couple of nights at her own house just so she can see it and be in it a little.
Make sure all relatives understand that she cannot live alone so one of them doesn't go get her. Also tell her if she leaves your home, by calling cab or some such, that you would have no choice but to put her in a facility because of the doctors warning (can't live alone). Hope you make some headway with her. It has to be very hard to have to leave your own home - I can totally understand why she wants to go home.
Funny - that's one of my Mom's favorites, "Let me give you my two cents."
With COVID I don't trust too much action in and out of the house, and she doesn't want anyone 'babysitting.' Said she'd rather do her time here than have someone in her home. Thinks it is very unnecessary.
I would love for her to stay in the family home. I lived there my first 32 years. till marriage 25 years ago. I love that house too - home is always home.
It's a tough situation. We COULD stay there a few nights, but I am afraid she'd go back to square one, confused and depressed. I have to distance myself from the emotions associated with the house in order to keep things logical. It's enough emotion with the dementia issues. I keep thinking, maybe as time passes maybe we can go there. As it is now, we are working through the reality of the diagnosis and learning as much as we can about the disease.
janice
We had her gas stove turned off so she could only use the microwave or electric tea kettle (with auto-shutoff). A caregiver came by for a couple of hours every day to make sure she took her meds, which were in a locked box otherwise, and tidy up a bit. Once a week they would do laundry and assist with a shower. We replaced her glass dishware with plastic, etc. We did try to get her to wear a Med-alert device but she would forget to put it on. I was about to consider an in-home camera (I live far away) when she declined to the point where she needed assisted living.
My Mom has no problem taking appliances apart - using tools. If her stove stopped working she'd 'investigate'.
She is quite the wonder. Her independence knows no bounds : )
Keeps me busy.
janice
I heard a funeral director say one time- there is no wrong way to have your funeral planned. Thank you for applying that to this tough situation. Boy are you right, second guessing can be torture - this is enough - don't need anymore of that.
janice
So sorry you lost your Mom. Sounds like you were 'on it' for her. Sure sounds like you took care of all you could. Had you not kept in touch, she would not have had family near at he end.
Funny how we think we could do things better and things would be different. It really isn't in our hands, is it? And the parts that were in your control you handled with love. I am sure your family realizes that - believe them.
janice
Because your mom may understand this today may not mean that she understands this tomorrow. You may have to repeat this every day until she declines so much that she stops asking to leave your home. Just maybe be prepared to repeat and repeat your explanations.
Thank you!
Please be aware that the care needed for a person with Alzheimer's type dementia will get increasing more complex. Eventually, she may need help with bathing, dressing, toileting, diaper changes, eating, transfers (getting from bed to chair to standing) as she "forgets" how to do these things. She may become non-verbal or not interact with others. She may have difficulty with discerning day and night and keep others in the home up at night. It is a progressive disease and you must be realistic that the housing situation will need to change as her disease progresses.
My Mom wants to be home alone - doesn't want anyone in the house with her - says she doesn't need to be watched.
It has been a rollercoaster. Sounds like it's not going to get any better.
I am being careful not to promise her she will always be with me, but I sure hope she can.
Gotta give it to her - she's got spunk! My sister keeps thinking I laugh as a coping mechanism, I honestly am proud of my Mom at the same time she's making it a struggle.
Thank you for taking the time to keep me in reality.
My Mom, too, forgot how to use a remote and her cordless TV. My nephew found her crying because she couldn't remember how to answer the phone. She also left a pan on the stove. A hospital visit with rehab ended her living in her own home. She came to live with me. By that time she needed help dressing. She could no longer cook and needed help reminding her to brush her teeth.
I may ask her doctor if he could talk to her again. My Mom listened better to others than she did me. He needs to sit down in front of her and look her in the eye and say "You cannot go back to your home. You have a Dementia where you r no longer are able to be on your own 24/7. You will need to stay with your daughter so ur safe."
You do what you need to do for you. What is easy for you. Mom is now in a part of her life where its not what she wants but what she needs. To make this work, you can't be stressing yourself about what is happening at her house. Running over there for every little thing. You can care better for her in your own home.
Eventually, that may not be an option as her Dementia progresses. You may have to place her in an AL or NH because her care is more than you can do. My Moms decline was monthly from the time she lived with me in late 2014 until her death in Sept 2017. She was in Adult DC while living with me. Then went to an AL. An aide from the DC got a job at the AL a few months after Mom started living there. She could not believe how Mom had declined in that short period. What I am saying is how Mom is today may not be how she is a month or two from now. COVID is a good reason for her not to go back for now.
I have read and reread your response since yesterday. Thank you for the care you took in going me these details. I think you can really relate to the exact issues she is having. I live more than 30 minutes away from my mom's house, and going there a few times per week (my sister went the other days) was not working well for her. Visiting and helping her there was not the answer. As SOON as I left things went downhill. Neither one of us slept. Since she has been with me she sleeps 10 hours a night and can think much better.
I also am making myself reread your post to let it sink in that this could go south very quickly.
Thank you for sharing so much of your story. SO helpful.
Take care of yourself.
janice
So you and any other family must sit with her and tell her once that the doctors have decided now that she is no longer safe to move into her own home. That if she insists on such a move, or threats of leaving for her home you will need to seek guardianship and have her placed in memory care for her own safety.
Tell her that you love having her, and that you are so sorry she is now diagnosed with this illness. That you will not EVER abandon her, but must now protect her. And that you will do so. Say all of this as gently as you can. Hopefully she can understand it; hopefully she will adjust. But the future will be as it will be ongoing, with all the challenge and change. And you will have to act in her behalf now to the best of your ability.
I assume you are already POA. Hopefully you will not have to seek guardianship, but you do have the full evaluations to do so. Congratulations on what you have already accomplished for your Mom; what a splendid job!
There are days when she seems to understand everything and other days not.
For some reason she cannot understand the safety issue. She keeps saying, "I don't know why everyone thinks I won't be safe. It's not like I am going to roam the streets."
I tell her about the tea kettle, the stairs, that she might put a pizza in the oven and forget -- she shakes her head and says that would never happen.
I am using the 'protect' part - that I have to protect her. I also told her last night to think about, if EVERYONE we ask says she should stay with me to be safe there must be something to the safety.
Thank you for saying I am doing well at this. It is easy to second-guess yourself when the situation is this fragile.
take care of yourself,
janice
My mother scored well on MMSE's until about 6 months before her death. She had vascular dementia and her memory was still very sharp. However, she could't reason or solve the simplest problems, which what was leading to her constant anxiety and panic, which in turn was driving her BP sky high at times.
Had we not had the testing, everyone in the family would still be telling me that mom was fine and just having a pity party.
I was nervous the testing was too much on my Mom. I was being interviewed by a psychiatrist to get background information while she was being tested. I kept asking what she was doing in the next room, if she had something to drink, etc. Not to mention, the stress of the testing itself - was it making her sad, was she getting more confused, was the person administering the test being patient, were the people around her wearing masks, etc.
My mom's dementia is vascular also. I keep saying, if you talk to my Mom you wouldn't notice much, but if you ask her to solve problems on paper or draw a clock reading 4:15, you'd see there is something wrong.
My Mom's doctor is just lovely. If she recommended the testing, I knew it was necessary. Not to mention, she gave my Mom a short memory test prior to sending her to the extensive testing to be sure it was warranted.
Thank you for 'having my back' on this. Like anyone with a conscious dealing with a loved-one with dementia knows, each decision is delicate.
janice
Taking away freedom, independence and self reliance can be the first step on a road to decline of coping abilityand self esteem.
Why is her home not suitable, and how can you adapt it? That's what we did when my sister had terminal cancer, and during my father's long decline. I'm thinking now how to adapt my house, and on a more challenging basis, how to continue gardening. The first step is to switch to raised beds to cut back on the bending.
You can take precautions such as making the home safer (eliminating throw rugs, getting a lifeline alert service, external lock for quick access by police or paramedics, and many more such precautions.)
I don't criticize anyone who will post and disagree with me; fortunately we're entitled to our own opinions.
If I did live with someone, I would continue to be as functional as long as I could, or if I lived alone, I would take the same approach, modifying and streamlining my life to accommodate the challenges of age (which is one reason I've decided to restudy math over the winter, to keep my mind from deteriorating.)
I would also say that 4 hours of cognitive testing to me is excessive; the only exams I know of that are that long are bar exams, and I know from legal friends and workmates that that's very challenging, even for young 20 somethings just finishing law school.
If someone wanted to test my cognitive abilities for 4 hours, I would be quite blunt in telling him or her what to do with those tests. Or I'd establish break times and expect to be treated to coffee, cider, OJ, and/or something to refresh me. A nice salad would be welcome too. But just testing for 4 hours - not gonna happen to this old lady.
And that's definitely not a criticism of you; it's of the doctor who performed it.
As for staying in her home -- The doctor suggested she stay with me at the end of May, 2-3 days per week was her recommendation. We did that June, July, August and September. Each and every time my Mom went home she was confused, miserable, taking her meds out of her pill-pack and refilling them incorrectly. She is on blood thinners and insisted on taking double the dose each day. Left the water on to boil and couldn't hear the whistle of the kettle. She has brand new hearing aids as of June, but refused to wear them when she was home. She was absolutely miserable. Crying. Sleeping throughout the day. Groggy. She believes she was not over-medicating but the number of pills I counted proved differently.
I would love for my Mom to have what she wants, and I tell her that when she says she will be going home soon. We tried throughout the summer to have her make it on her own. It was such a quick downward spiral each week. My sister and I took turns being there each day to be sure she ate, took her meds, etc. She would definitely be hurt if left alone.
At my home, I am with her 24/7. We do jigsaw puzzles, read and discuss the daily paper, complete JUMBLEs, watch old tv shows, do crafts, eat our three meals together. My Mom is thriving here considering her dementia. Night and day. I promise you.
Have you asked her what it is about living with you that makes her want to go home (rather than asking, "why do you want to go home" ask "is there something that we could do to make it better here?").
I would encourage her to call her doctor if she insists that she wants to go home. The doctor can possibly be more authoritative than you can about "no, this is not possible".
In the end, you may need to let her go and fail. She WILL have an "emergency" and you will need to say "no mom, you said you wanted to be independent; if you have an emergency, call 911, not me". It sounds cruel, but sometimes the only way to get our elders into the care they need is for them to have a fall or serious illness that puts them in the hospital. At that point, you can ask for placement in a facility.
If she still has the reasoning skills to "get" that, explaining this scenario to her might get her to stop. But in dementia, reasoning is often the first thing out the window, so don't count on it.
As for whether she is considered incompetent - I cannot answer for sure. This is all new to me too. The psych doctors wrote in their report that she is not able to live alone. Her primary care who is also the head of the geriatric department at a top 10 hospital gave my Mom three options - live at home with 24-hour care, move to an assisted living facility or stay with me.
Whether those options mean 'incompetent' I do not know.
We were also advised to get power of attorney set-up as soon as possible, before her memory declines further.
We have asked if there is anything we can do to make here better for her.
She says it is lovely here and she appreciates everything we do for her, but she just needs to be home. She also believes people will come to visit her at home for Christmas which they will not due to COVID.
We take her to social distance outdoors to see family regularly - with masks.
She sees more family now than she did pre-COVID.
The bottom line is -- she is very independent, determined -- always has been. I know other family from my husband's side who welcomed being taken care of with the same diagnosis. It is not in my Mom's nature or personality to have decisions made for her. I am aware of that in all my dealings with her. I am, after all, her daughter and the apple sure does not fall far from the tree.
But, I still need advice. I really do.