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We always believed in holistic health and they too may live well into their 90's. I got them off all medications and they are doing great now that we stay far away from medical based protocols.
So I don't want Medicaid to dictate their care and hope their property will last to fund their care. The problem is that my parents thought they would be leaving something behind for their kids and grandkids and like you said, their care, should anything become complex, will cost $10,000 for just one person!
Won't Medicare be sufficient? They did gift the rental to me and my siblings years ago but the 5 yr window isn't up yet. I believe in spending money in improving their health and preventive tried and true natural lifestyle protocols. They need more assistance so I'm wondering how to budget WITHOUT compromising their health or fun times. Can you point or share any good links discussing how to be independent of Medicaid?
The larger house just rented out a year ago to...ge this... an assisted living facility. They signed a two year lease and did a bunch of modifications - at their own expense - and I don't see them going anywhere for ten years. This house also has a new roof and somewhat new HVAC.
My widowed mother had over $500K in savings, investments and real estate. No mortgages, no liens. Monthly income from was about $2K. Aside from taxes and marginal upkeep on real estate, mom's only expenses were groceries, utilities and car/health/LTC insurance.
Lonnnnng story, but mom refused to get a diagnosis for mobility and dexterity deterioration (not to mention her cognitive slips). Why? She "married into" these assets when she married her 2nd husband. And he'd been promising "all this" to his kids for their whole lives. Long before he met my mother. And after.
After mom was widowed, she would not spend one penny of that nest egg on her own care. She would not spend anything to make her home safer RE her physical limitations. Nor would she unload properties -- to make life easier -- and invest the cash.
Mom also would not set foot in a specialist's office where....she'd get a diagnosis...there might be treatment....there would more likely be a doctor's order for home care or facility care. Which, with mom's hefty assets, would start with private pay. Then she'd switch to Medicaid -- after all assets are drained and Medicaid put liens on the properties. Then she'd drop dead, and there'd be no inheritance for her late husband's adult children.
Instead, mom stagnated and deteriorated in place (I mean, aged in place). Lived only on her income. She'd pay for necessities, make outrageous religious donations, and sit on her hands until the next month. With her head firmly in the sand regarding everything else. And mom would lean on me & her sister & neighbors to fill some of the gaps.
Yep....Mom knew all about the Medicaid 5-year (or is it 7?) look-back. But lacked the adaptability to explore ways to shelter the assets. And lived in constant fear that her late husband's kids would "put her out" and seize everything while she was still alive. (But didn't fear it enough to give me -- her only offspring -- DPOA and HCPOA. Cuz God forbid I would put mom's safety and my sanity first. Instead, mom assigned those powers to one of the step-sibs.)
It's all over now. Somewhat. Mom death was a direct result of insisting that she live alone in an unsuitable home with no adaptations and no skilled help. Back when step-dad was alive, he was kind enough to include me in their wills. Estate is being divided equally by a number of people that makes the net unremarkable. Investment properties aren't selling, because they were poorly managed by 2 ailing senior citizens for the past 10 years. We're lucky to have found a buyer for the primary home, which had absolutely no updates for the past 60 years.
Yep. Many, many seniors have full agency over their money. For better or for worse.
How are the rental properties doing? Are the properties in great shape or are they aging? The tenants are paying on time? If there are excellent tenants that's a plus.
It all depends on where one lives regarding the cost of Independent Living, Assisted Living, or having caregivers at home. I remember my Dad was pay $20k per month, yes per month, for private Agency home care around the clock. Then he moved into Independent Living and brought along two of his morning caregivers [which gave him a routine seeing a familiar face each morning] and that cut the cost in half.
Later down the road Dad moved into Assisted Living at $6k per month, plus he had his same paid morning caregivers but shorter hours as the Staff was doing more of the work. Dad really enjoyed where he was living, had zero complaints. He enjoyed the friendship of other fellows closer to this age, and the 3 would eat all their meals together. And he liked the idea there was a Nurse on duty 24 hours.
So it all depends on what the parent wants to do. Some prefer not to move out of their home, I couldn't get my late Mom to budge plus she refused caregivers. A serious fall landed her in a nursing home for her final three months at a cost of $15k per month. My Dad was the opposite, he couldn't wait to get out their house and move some place elder friendly [no stairs].
The contract is a good idea, even if Medicaid is never going to be needed. I keeps everything aboveboard and transparent.
And, I agree that if a parent duly needs us and has no means, we should do what we can out of familial responsibility.
But, in my case, having my mother hear has totally disrupted our lives and finances AND, she has plenty of means to help out financially and compensate us for the additional financial burden and for our care.
When she live "on her own" she was paying for her utilities and food as well as my very expensive, do nothing brother. Their food bill was easily $500 a month for most months and often more. I know she paid too much for everything and on top of that, she spent a lot on his needs. She was spending just a wee bit more than she brought in.
When she moved in win us, we rented her house out for $2400/mo so that increased her income while at the same time, lowered her expenses (no utilities, not feeding her son etc.). So, now, even after paying the caregivers and us, she is able to sock a little money away each month. And this is after adding a car payment for a $30,000 lift van that she really needed.
So, she is able to pay us and we have made sacrifices that $800 a month does not begin to cover so why not have her pay her way?
I also don't see anything wrong with providing care and housing for parents without charge if that is right for your family.
In my situation, I look at what myself and my family have given up and will give up I the future and compare it to what Mom can afford and also compare that to what she would pay if she were to live somewhere else.
My mother brings in approx. $8000 a month between pensions (hers and Dad's) Soc Sec and rents collected from two houses she owns.
We pay caregivers $1600 a month to come in 40 hours per week. We ask Mom to contribute $800 a month towards our higher utilities (we had to buy a new house that has double the square footage, thereby double utilities), higher mortgage, higher property taxes, etc. What we didn't factor in is the 128 hours a week that I have to care for her. Yes, I get to sleep at night but that is small consolation when she rings and wakes me up in the middle of the night and I have to work the next day.
I digress. In our case, prior to Mom coming to live with us, I was moving money from savings every other month to cover her financial shortfalls. Now she is banking about $3-4K a month.
So, what does she need all this money for? Well, to leave an inheritance for the four of us kids - three of whom don't call, visit or care for her.
When she first came to us, she was living much more independently. Now, she needs near constant care, help with bathing, feeding, toileting.
After reading this thread, I am contemplating renegotiating and asking for more money.
In the end, it's not about money at all, but about wear and tear on you and your own family, the absence of a social life and the constant worry. Now ask a sibling to step in for to weeks while you take a family holiday!! Check their reaction.
then go to a lawyer and draw up a Care Contract.
My parents have taught me to do the very same thing. So I am now ready in case I need to go into Independent Living or Assisted Living.
..... "your parent took care of you as a child, with no pay....you can do the same for Mom or Pop, for little or nothing".
1. Parents caring for a child, is not even on the same page, much less in the same league, as taking care of an aging, infirm elder, in an adult-size body.
Much less one that develops dementia or other debilitating, incapacitating illness requiring full-time care of that adult...for YEARS, not to mention often necessary house renovations to accommodate their needs.
2. A child making messes and acting out, lasts far less long, is usually much smaller, than elder adults' problems.
3. Kids problems are usually far less costly, as well--in time, money, wear-and-tear on the caregivers.
4. When elders also have mental ills, as well as developing elder ills, it can be EPIC.
NO amount of compensation, covers that.
We desperately need real back-up plans, and realistic laws governing how things get allocated. Caregivers simply get thrown under the bus.
$2000 per month? Phfft!
That's very fair if the elder can afford it. They'd otherwise be spending, easily, $7K to $20K in a facility, per month....If not out of their pockets, then out of the State's pockets.
Just make sure there are documents to show how/where/why the money's spent for your elder's care. If you cannot prove necessity of that fee [which is income to you], then the fee must get lowered.
We cared for Mom under our roof. Had cheap rent. thrifty utilities.
We couldn't even justify claiming her as our dependent on taxes, because we were technically not providing half or more of her support, according to legal advice. However, since I'd paid Mom a monthly stipend for years prior to her living with us, she paid me $300/mo., more as a "pay-back of a loan".
But, one of my brothers apparently, was using her former married name, and claiming her as their dependent, even though she never lived under their roof [because they refused]. Totally illegal...but got away with it.
Her behaviors were epically bad. 6 years of that nearly killed both me and spouse..literally. NO ONE in this County, deemed us in need of respite caregiving, refused to admit her anywhere; turned blind eyes to her behaviors, because she has always been a supreme "show timer".
IF you have an elder who can afford $2K to stay with you, that's still very low-cost. Just make sure to allocate it properly, document everything financial and daily care, chaffering, etc...everything.
You will need it.
Keep her funds separate from your funds!
It'd be wise to get a lawyer to draw up papers and advise you, to avoid trouble later!
Don't fall into the mindset of: "this is my loving family...nothing will go wrong"--that's another myth people commonly fall into.
Ask an elder law attorney to explain all of the options. Was your father a war-time veteran? Aid & Attendance pension can reimburse the veteran's surviving spouse for care expenses, even payments to family members.
Medicaid home care programs in your state may also be available, if your mother's income and assets can be coordinated with the application process.