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So mom's tooth fell out yesterday. I could not get her in yesterday so made an appointment for first thing this morning at 7:30. Mom ate breakfast and brushed her teeth, etc. When it was time to go she pushed me almost down the stairs and said "I'm not going." She is getting combative and I'm afraid she might push me from behind or something going out the back steps. Should I call EMT and have her taken to the hospital and they can place her from there? I'm just afraid if she gets more combative before being placed that someone will get hurt.

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So after Memorial Day? Good luck
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"They were kind enough to let her squish in this afternoon.".

I am so glad she will be going to Memory Care by the end of the month.
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I'm not experienced in violent behaviour but from a neutral standpoint - it sounds (if not health related) that your mother is angry with you (and probably herself) Making her do scary things? - Anxiety and stress can prob generate some unreasonable behaviour. My father turned perverse a while back - for a word. unreasonable. Nothing violent but just unreasonable. My sister stepped in to take charge and it wasnt until then that i realised the difference in my communication skills to my sisters - it made a huge difference. She managed to stay calm and was asking my dad his opinion (not that she ever intended taking it) but being very firm - there was no option - that was made clear but also a kindness in updating we will do this - so that you dont have any further pain sort of thing - and then we will come back and have a nice cup of tea and some cake sort of thing? . My dads behaviour change. He started looking forward to his benefit afterwards - I wasnt able to get through to my dad.
My friends mothers behaviour is violent and she hit her grandchild for no reason not long ago. The saddest thing was aftwrwards the child that was hit was asked if he would be visiting his gran again soon and he replied - that isnt my gran!
She is quite nasty to my friend (her daughter). Its like she has chosen her to vent her anger and stress out onto her daughter. Maybe it is just that fear and anxiety (unless of course its mental health causing it) and maybe it can be addressed in another way - a different way of expressing things? Its not easy. I wasnt able to do it - my sister stepped in. My dad knows she means business and does what she says - she says it in a way that shows him a benefit as well - and softens things with afterwards we will do this or that? Its a scary time getting older.
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AlvaDeer May 21, 2024
Jenny, Roger writes us often about her mom. She says that mom hasn't been violent, though she can be verbally abusive and that not new to her just since dementia. My fear for her mom is that we might be missing something causing this sudden change, such as an infection from that tooth that just busted, or such as a sudden UTI. Lea, below mentions, and she is correct, that the gabapentin Roger's mom is on could be causing some difficulties, as well. Roger has been alone handling this and she's really been up against it. So glad her daughter is now there to help out and lend moral support for a while.
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You've got my prayers. Roger. Glad your dd is helping.
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Sorry that it has been so hard for you, Roger.

Dealing with aggression is tough. I am very happy to hear that placement isn’t too far away.

Wishing you and your family all the best.
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very sad rough day for you - take it easy
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Good luck Roger ,
What is the plan for how to get Mom to leave her house and get her in the memory care building ?
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Rogerwyatt7890 May 21, 2024
Not sure. I might say the house needs repairs and we need to leave for a while until things are fixed. She will forget about her house soon as she is really close to remembering nothing anymore. I have my daughter who is going to help me move her. All prayers are appreciated. It won't be easy.
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Good move - so she will be moving into memory care by end of May?
that is good as it is soon
Have been following your posts, and it sounds like this placement is much needed
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Rogerwyatt7890 May 21, 2024
Thanks so much. Yes it will be better for both of us. I am already feeling relieved but stressed about it at the same time. So much more work to be done like selling the house and assets, etc. EEEEECK very tiring. I look forward to the day when I can sleep through the night without worrying about wandering and sundowning.
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You say "to get her there". Where is there? Is she in facility or in ER or in hospital awaiting transfer to her facility after checking her out.
From what you have told us about her ongoing nothing this bad every occurred. Now with the tooth broken off and not addressed and her gobbling down pills I am worried for her. She could be in pain, have a UTI, really anything.

I am very very happy to hear she will enter MC sooner than expected. That's quite good news.
Hope you an fill us in on the medical story.
Been a nasty day here, and hope you get some rest, and hope she will be OK with this sudden turn for the worse.
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waytomisery May 21, 2024
Down below I just saw another recent reply that Roger said the dentist squished Mom in this afternoon .

The reply is down where it was being discussed that the dentist probably only could fit her in the early morning on short notice , which was the case according to Roger but , then they were nice and let Roger bring her later eventually .
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Roger , oy vey what a day for you and mom.

I am happy for both of you that you will be back to being her daughter and advocate soon.

Prayers that the time and transition is an easy one for both of you.
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Rogerwyatt7890 May 21, 2024
Thanks so much. At first it will be hard but I think in time she will adapt. I could only do this care taking for six months but wish I could for longer but after this morning, there is no way. I reached my limit.
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Well I had to fight her almost to get her there but she is better now. I also have a room set up and she is ready to move to memory care at the end of the month. I will be very happy and relieved to know she is in a safe environment. She was not supposed to go to the facility until the middle of the month next month but I pushed it forward today after her episode this morning. I walked in the living room after getting coffee and she was mixing her pain pills in her yogurt and was trying to eat it. I caught her just in time and made her spit them out (about 20 gabapentin). If I had not been there she would have overdosed. THAT DID IT FOR ME FOR SURE. Just letting everyone know she is on her way to a facility.
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waytomisery May 21, 2024
Is Mom in the ER now ? Where is she ? “ Almost fight “ to get her where ?
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Here we are in the evening.
Sure look forward to your updating us on how it's going for your Mom, Roger.
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Rogerwyatt7890 May 21, 2024
See above.
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Yes I would call 911 and say " You were assaulted and her tooth is broken and you fear for you Life . " She May need medication for her combative behavior . A ER Doctor can do that and they can also Look at the tooth . Sometimes you can break a tooth and its Ok but if the nerve is exposed or there is an Infection she May end up in serious Pain and an Infection . My bother ended up in the Hospital for awhile after a bad tooth infection and Had to be On IV antibiotics and His whole face was swollen . I think you have to trust you get Roger . Your basically saying " Mo tried Killing me today " but you Know what Mom Has been slowly Killing you everyday . Please start Focusing On your health and send her to the ER . Then ask for a social worker and let them Know what your going through . Maybe they Can help her get Placed even for respite care while you start making some tough decisions about your Life. Your life means something too .
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Just something for new caregivers to consider: a 7:30am appointment for *any* reason may be too early for a very elderly person. My now-95-yr-old Mom was an early bird before she entered her mid-80s. Nowadays I never scehdule an appointment for her before 10am. She just can't move very fast, phyically or mentally, anymore. You can't rush seniors, especially ones with dementia and doubly if they have mobility issues like arthritis.
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AlvaDeer May 21, 2024
He/she--the dentist--may have actually opened early just to see her in this emergency. It is a great shame she didn't get there as the dentist is unlikely to be that kind again. I surely agree with you in general, but Roger was probably beset with constant pain and complaints until shoved at the stairs and told no, so....................my sympathies to Roger.
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Yes, call 911. She assaulted you and she needs to go to the ER.
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"Well mom, looks like you will be gumming it for the rest of your life."
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lealonnie1 May 21, 2024
Nah, when the pain of the broken tooth gets bad enough, mother will beg to be taken to the dentist.
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You can mention Dementia as the reason she is now getting aggressive and that she is incompetent to make decisions for herself.
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Roger, I see below that you say that there is a sharp part of the broken tooth still stuck there.
I have to tell you that this is life threatening.

Now it is not her decision for care, and because you already told us she has dementia this is kind of on you to get her care whether she wants it or not. That means you let 911 know about the broken tooth and your fear of sepsis with this new behavior (a very valid fear).

Teeth that break off expose the root and infection can quickly set in. There may be transfer then to the blood stream. Sepsis would mean that the organs quickly begin to shut down one at a time. It means death if not treated. My brother died from a miniscule tiny abrasion on his shin that didn't heal, and that he put ointments on, ignoring it. It was so small that, despite his wearing shorts all the time, NO ONE noticed it, yet it infected and the infection entered his blood stream. He died of it. In his case, he longed for death; he had little to look forward to at 85 other than the progression of his early Lewy's dementia.

But I am here to tell you that at this point your mother is at risk of death from something as simple as a fractured tooth.
She must get care.
Speak to her MD at the least today.
Unless you wish to let nature take its course and are willing to be responsible for that choice now your Mom no longer can be.
It's up to you really.
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Forget about the tooth and yes call 911 and get her placed in a facility. It seems mom is getting more out of control than you can handle. They have people in the hospital that are trained to deal with this type of behavior. People have been killed or seriously injured from falling down the stairs.
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I agree that if you do call 911 you cannot mention dementia, since this is not a medical emergency that they can treat. Agree with Alva to tell them she is aggressive, combative and may have a UTI, won't go in to the doctor, etc. "She's not herself."
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I don’t know that the EMTs will take her if she refuses and seems fine to them during the time they are there , unfortunately . You might be better trying when she’s in a rage or confused, whenever that may be next .

She’s 87 with dementia and her tooth fell out and she brushed her teeth and ate this morning . I gotta be honest , if she was having no pain or bleeding, I would have skipped the dentist , and waited until she either complained about pain or had trouble eating . Old people’s teeth fall out , the root shrinks , gums recede .
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AlvaDeer May 21, 2024
I think they will try not to take her. Roger's main hope is to ham it up and say mental changes, maybe septic, not herself, maybe stroke, whatever......
I think it is worth a try, and I wouldn't be above telling some pretty good fibs.
I think this is getting worse and worse and placement doesn't seem to be moving for Roger. Now this. If mom is having violent episodes she could have a bad UTI going on; I doubt you will cooperate with Urine C&S, or even be able to.
I hope she gets in for at least a check.
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That would be my suggestion, Roger.
I would call EMS and say your mother "attacked" you and pushed you, nearly toppling you down the stairs. If that tooth is not just fallen out completely from the gum, but has broken off she could be getting septic, and infection, so tell them about the tooth and the plan for emergency dental gone wrong this a.m. Tell them she could have a UTI because this combativeness is "unlike her" and you are fearful something (even possibly a stroke) is going on.

In order to get EMS to take her in you are going to have to truly "ham this up" (sorry to be so blunt) because otherwise EMS will say "She doesn't want to go and she is competent and able to decide this on her own". You are going to have to say "Something dire is happening; this isn't my mom."

Yes, once there, don't take mom home. Tell them she needs full assessment by neuro-psyc and that you cannot handle her at home. Ask for Social Services. Tell them all you have been trying and tell them you want her placed; it's no longer safe at home. That will hopefully HOPEFULLY get the ball rolling.

Hope you'll update us and good luck.
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