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Sadly the condo life estate bit into the sale, as she couldn't stay for "life" to allow it to transfer to us as trustees and giving us the "bump up" to save cap gains. She developed dementia, wouldn't allow the aides in after less than 2 months (only 1 hr/day, with plans to increase as needed), so we had to finagle a way to get her to move to MC. We had to use this atty for the closing when we sold it to cover her MC costs, and THAT was even more expensive. We could have held on to it until she passes, but the fees and taxes were killers! None of us wanted to live in it and I had enough to do without becoming a landlord to rent it out.
Anyway, assuming this atty knows what she's doing and has done a good job, it probably isn't overly charged. Elder Law attys are "specialists", so they need to know more about elder law than your run of the mill atty, who can draw up a will or even trusts, POAs, etc. As noted, you could call others in the area and ask for a ballpark price for the work you had done. If they are all in the same price range, then it's probably the going rate for your area.
As to redoing all the documents, it would depend I think on which document is affected. A Will can be amended through a Codicil. Best recollection for Trusts, is an "Amended and Restated Trust" in which only the changed part is addressed and all other provisions are "held constant" (i.e., not changed at all).
POAs might be affected, and I believe that they would be redone, if for no other reason than to be on the safe side and have only one document being effective.
As to state jurisdiction, I believe it's the state in which the individual creating the documents lives, unless it's changed and I missed it.
As to HIPAA and release of information, it's been some years since I signed new ones, but best recollection is that I signed not just a HIPAA release, but also a release for medical billing purposes - 2 separate documents. I have copies as I always ask for them, so I'll check next time when I get a chance.
Any other questions? Not sure I can answer them, but I'll try.
Do you have to redo everything? It was done in another state are laws that different? And I wondered too about the HIPPA thing. Like said, that is done at doctor offices and facilities. It basically gives the Dr and hospitals authority to give out info on you to insurance companies for billing purposes. Or, to say who you don't want to have your info. If someone has been assigned as your medical POA they should have no problem getting info if you are incompetent or incapacitated to make informed decisions.
I think $400 is a little steep. I may ask around.
MsGiggy wrote:
"It was a bill outlining her services. FPOA, HPOA, HIPPA Authorization,
Will, RLT, Memo Certification of Trust, Documents and Funding Instructions. It is her law firm."
1. To charge for a HIPAA (not HIPPA) authorization is to me exploitation. We've signed individual HIPAA authorizations for every medical practice we visited. They each have their own authorization, probably prepared by their attorneys. Even if you have your own, they're likely going to want their specific form signed.
This is greed, overreaching, and in my opinion unprofessional and exploitative.
2. A Certification of Trust is probably what's also known as Certificate of Trust Existence and Authority. They're standardized except for the specific names and dates. Any well organized attorney would have these saved as standard forms; the secretaries or paralegals merely load the forms and insert the specific data.
The attorney wouldn't do anything except (a) provide the names, addresses and any other pertinent data (b) proof read for accuracy and (c) specify a form letter to the recorder's office so the document can be recorded.
3. "Documents" are individually identified; this is a catch-all term for which I'm not sure there is any meaning.
4. Funding instructions are in my experience unique to each asset. Real property needs to be conveyed to the Trust, which requires a Quit Claim Deed. For a practicing EL attorney, the language would be standard. There is some Deed data to enter, such as names, addresses, the specific conveyance language and of course the property description. Experienced legal secretaries or paralegals would prepare drafts for review by the attorney, minimizing the attorney's time and billing costs.
Stocks, mutual and other assets are most likely transferred by forms of the individual companies; that's been my experience. My father completed multiple forms when we funded his Trust. Banks are similar; they have their own forms for opening accounts.
Ms. Giggy, I think this solo practitioner is exploiting you by attempting to overcharge you. Find a firm that doesn't. You're entitled to have legal services at reasonable costs, not be scalped by a solo practitioner who seems to have found an opportunity to pad her bill.
Since then the lawyer in question has given me a free 15 minute consult. It was about something that will soon trigger a need for me to update my Will. When I do the update it will not cost me as much as I will not be updating the POA documents at this time.
The best estate planning practice I worked for had literally everything computerized, and this was back in the mid 1990s. Trusts and Wills use a lot of standardized verbiage, so the attorney's instructions to the secretaries indicated which forms to use (i.e., single will, joint will, revocable trust, irrevocable trust, etc.) and provided the individualized data to fill in the appropriate forms.
It was the most organized arrangement I've seen for this type of law practice. That kind of practice can charge less, but single practitioners or those who aren't as sophisticated would probably charge more. That's been my experience.
Is this attorney a sole practitioner? Associate in a firm? Partner in a firm? How many attorneys are in the firm, and how many practice areas are there? Does the firm publish an Estate Planning newsletter? Hold seminars for its clients, including employees who might be potential estate planning clients?
The only way you can really make a good determination is by comparison shopping with other law firms, following BarbBrooklyn's guidelines for breaking out the work, identifying generally the assets (i.e., real property, mutuals, other financial instruments, heirs, special arrangements, etc.).
I would list all of the above, provide general information (again as to assets), research firms in your area, and start calling.
ETA: I would generally not expect NC fees to be even equivalent with those of attorneys in NC, or say Chicago, Detroit, or other big cities, which factor high overhead into their pricing scales. Some of these firms typically cater to "high net worth" clients but also have more middle class clients. Others just go for the high profile clients.
You might also contact the NC State Bar Assn. and search their attorney categories for estate planning firms in your area.
Okay, so she is presenting you with an invoice thay will be due, I presume, if you fill out the paperwork and she executes the estate plan.
I would call the lawyer and ask if this is a flat fee for this work. (Some eldercare lawyers charge by the hour for work performed; others charge a flat fee for this sort of work).
Have you called a couple of other lawyers to ask what their fees are? Do you have friends you can ask?
Did she come highly recommended?
I found this on NOLO:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-cost-of-estate-planning-how-much-will-you-pay.html
Here is another article from The Balance:
https://www.thebalance.com/how-do-i-know-if-my-attorney-s-fees-are-reasonable-3505713
Seriously, thanks for the info and as in most important decisions, do your homework and rely on your intuition.
Southern California.
I'd say you're being overcharged -- massively overcharged.
The price of legal services is VERY location-dependent.
Will, RLT, Memo Certification of Trust, Documents and Funding Instructions. It is her law firm.