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I confronted her. "I'm VERY uncomfortable with you storing food in your room. It's NOT sanitary and I wasn't raised with that being ok. You are going to move the food out of your room."
She got angry. "ITS MY ROOM. what do you care what's in MY ROOM!!!"
I said-"YOUR ROOM is in MY HOUSE THAT I PAY THE MORTGAGE ON. My rules are-NO FOOD IN YOUR ROOM. It looks like HOARDING to me and if that is the mental state you are in-then I will speak to your Dr about this. We can get a social worker involved and they can come see your situation for themselves."
Another stock answer flew out of her mouth-"Well maybe I should MOVE OUT then!" (She thinks this is a threat. This time I called her on it. She wouldnt know where to begin but I offered to help.)
I said-"Fine. You can look for and pay for an apartment where you can store ALL YOUR FOOD in your room...figure out your own rides to grocery and dr appointments and so on. But HERE IN MY HOUSE- it's MY RULES I don't have many but you won't store food in your room."
Then she tried to blame me for it. She keeps it in her room because "You keep moving the food around and I can't find any of it when I need it!"
I said-THAT isn't true. You go to the store with neighbor, spend and buy because you are bored. Then shove it into cabinets and all I did was ORGANIZE it. You need to STOP BUYING FOOD WE DONT NEED. I'll tell the neighbor to stop taking you out (the lady is meddlesome-but her only friend). I said-would you let HER see your room?? What would SHE THINK?
She just stared at me. I said..I'm DONE. THE FOOD HAS TO BE MOVED OR IM GOING TO ALERT YOUR DR THAT I NEED HELP.
She stormed off to her bedroom.
Today she acted like this disagreement never happened (as she does). I took her to the store, I asked her to buy me a shelving unit for storage of some of my small appliances. I told her-I will move my things here and you can have THAT CUPBOARD. Put your food THERE. if it doesn't FIT in the pantry or there...you don't bring it into the house.
Set up the shelf, moved my things and at last check she was sheepishly moving her food around.
She was a child. Throwing a tantrum. Now I'll have to check on and monitor this I'm sure. She didn't like me threatening to get her Dr and a social worker involved. She was actually pleasant today. I'm still annoyed-but it was a start.
My DH came and looked at me sideways "That's the first time I've heard you talk to her like that! Good for you!"
Thank you all. Small but big step for me.
Well done!!
Everything that happens in YOUR home is YOUR business!
If she doesn't get that BASIC RESPECT FOR YOU, she's OUT.
Number 1 rule should be NO food to be stored in the bedroom.
the last thing you need are mice, and other vermin.
If mom is able to get up, go shopping with neighbors it sounds like she is able to manage. Why is she living with you?
Sounds like you need to have a talk with mom and she needs to begin looking for a Senior Apartment (Long waiting lists so start now) or Assisted Living if she needs some help. Independent Living if she is alright on her own. This could be a Facility with a range of Living options from IL to AL to MC. Or an apartment or condo.
To reply to her "stock answer" it would be I care because it is MY HOUSE and you are to live by MY rules.
Cut the food storage off now. It attracts vermin, eventually smells, causes problems with trying to keep everything clean and eventually, when she is gone, the smell will have seeped into the walls and carpet and floor and won't come out.
I know from first hand experience. Not only was I raised by a food+other hoarder (as children we always smelled no matter how clean our clothes were), --it runs in families BTW-- when my hoarder relative lived with us for several years, we believed by keeping it contained to "her" bedroom it wouldn't be a problem outside, but it dropped the house value when we sold the house.
Cut the food storage (and any other smelly stuff) off right now -- even if the ultimatum is to do it or she moves.
FWIW, it is a mental illness. The food is like a safety blanket where the hoarder has control of something when all else is out of control. Check out the site https://childrenofhoarders.com/wordpress/ for more great tips on dealing.
If you cannot move her or she will not move out, a suggestion is to purchase large sealed plastic containers and all food (really, all items) should be stored in the containers with the lids on. This won't stop the hoard but will contain it as it is formed. This process also helps when the hoard needs to be sorted and disposed off.
Good luck.
I think most parents have that to a certain extent. This becomes especially maddening as they need help and won't listen to you.
I pointed out who were actual children, who were young adults & the rest middle aged. We had a laugh. But, on occasion I remind again. Especually when my DH is asked to climb ladders or go up on the roof - I point out his age. He is close to being a senior himself. I remind my folks. No I am not doing xyz, I am a middle aged woman.
She needs to move out because she won't be willing/able to stop hoarding until she gets treatment. Maybe talk to a therapist who specializes in hoarding in order to get strategies and perspective on how to deal with her.
1. Cultural reasons.
2. She doesn't and has never driven herself.
3. She doesnt understand finances and cannot fill out proper forms alone.
4. She was "on her own" after our father died for a decade and when we finally discovered the financial situation it was so bad we had to file bankruptcy for her.
5. Our dad did everything for her. Now it falls to me and one sibling who only helps sometimes.
She is basically like a functioning CHILD...and now aging. And I'm with a very supportive DH but it drives me crazy.
Im the "child" who always tries but she's never satisfied.
No blame, it's how she - the mix of cognitive ability, physical & mental health, life experience.
Here is a cut and paste from my recent book "Dementia Care Companion":
Hoarding is most commonly seen in Alzheimer’s disease, frontotemporal dementia, and Lewy body dementia. Around 23 percent of dementia patients develop hoarding behavior, typically in the early and middle stages of their illness.
Patients hoard all kinds of stuff. They collect, organize, fold and package them, put them away in nooks and crannies, and then spend many busy hours searching in various drawers, cabinets, and wardrobes to rediscover and unpack the items, only to repackage and store them again.
Hoarding typically occurs in tandem with obsessive-compulsive behavior, overeating, and pilfering. What all these behaviors have in common is an underlying sense of anxiety, impairment in impulse control, and memory loss. The patient is trying to get a grip on a life that is increasingly out of their control, with a mind that is no longer able to hold on.
Hoarding is also seen in some older individuals who do not have dementia. Hoarding in older individuals may be a precursor to dementia and a warning sign.
How to Handle Hoarding
Although hoarding can be challenging for the caregiver, it does not help to get angry or scold the patient. Patience, creativity, and humor are better ways of handling all kinds of behavioral problems, and hoarding is no exception.
· Find out what drives the hoarding behavior and try to remove the cause. Is the patient worried that their stuff may get lost or stolen? When they spread, repackage, and store items, are they trying to reassure themselves that they can find the items again? Are they bored from inactivity and a lack of meaningful involvement with the daily household affairs?
· What do they collect and where do they store them? Are the collected items perishable? Are they valuable? By knowing the types of items that the patient likes to collect and where they stash them, you can better decide your next steps.
· Reduce the number of drawers and wardrobes that the patient uses. Label drawers to clearly show what’s inside. You can write “socks,” “underwear,” etc. on sticky notes, then attach the notes to drawers. Or, you can affix pictures to drawers, indicating their contents.
· Make life easy for the patient. Use a large plastic basket for the collected items so the patient can easily find them in one place and pack them again when finished.
· If a particular type of hoarding does not pose a hazard, let it be. But, if the hoarding creates risks, such as food that spoils or clutter that presents a fall hazard, find ways to remove the risk.
· Avoid removing or discarding hoarded items as this may add to the patient’s anxiety. Find other ways to remove any risks. For example, if hoarded food has spoiled, replace it with fresh food.
· The patient may agree to donate some of the items to charity. Take this opportunity to quickly remove those items from view. If the patient finds them again, they’ll likely hoard them again.
· When going shopping, plan ahead to avoid situations where the patient can re-purchase items they have just discarded. If they come across the same items, they will likely buy them again.
· Do not try to persuade the patient to give up hoarding. They cannot follow your reasoning. Even if you could convince them, they would forget it a few moments later.
· Try to channel their energy to more productive activities like helping to set the dinner table, making salad, and folding laundry.
Here are the relatives of mine and the age they started hoarding and the current status.
Relative 1 was 28 -- still alive, tested and no dementia, in 70s.
Relative 2 was 23 -- died in 50s, no dementia, house was demolished.
Relative 3 was 43 -- died in 70s, no dementia, fire department burned the house to the ground.
Relative 4 was 46 -- died in 80s, Parkinson's dementia for last 2 years of life, house was saved but hoard was burned.
Relative 5 was 16 -- still alive, no dementia
Relative 6 was 51 -- died in 80s, dementia for last 10 years of life
Yes, it is pure hoarding!
Examples:
Canned food from 1970 was delivered to me in 2004 to be used for cooking.
Brand new clothes from 1979 were found in 2004 in one dining room.
In 2005 a medicine bottle of pain pills from 1953 was offered to me during a visit, because wasting them was "abhorrent".
Need a bottle opener? I ended up with 158 of them when one relative died. The same relative left us 212 GALLON sized bottles of nuts, bolts, screws, pins and other misc. metal connectors.
Need a fabric scrap? I still have 6 large boxes to contend with from a different relative.
Another relative left me with 1028 VHS tapes to sort thru -- looking to salvage the two that I recorded of family. If it wasn't for those two tapes, the whole set would have been burned with the rest of the hoard, but I'd really like to save those two copies.
When one relative died, we hauled 16 truck loads (over two tons) to the land fill, disposed of 12 yards of garbage in the dumpster and took 8 truck loads to thrift stores -- from one 900 sq ft house!
Hoarding is not just an elderly dementia problem. It is a mental illness problem in people of all ages.
As I have gotten older I've analyzed this and come to terms with it. What I have yet to understand is why I'm very much Mamma's child. I have a collection of everything including equine equipment that I have yet to disperse. And the bigger the house, the more I keep. Granted, I was rather happy last fall when I discovered I have a 20 year old horse blanket that was perfectly stored and in usable condition ( the other bad thing is that I paid $25 for that blanket; same blanket today is $196 so you know instead of kicking myself for being a hoarder, I patted myself on the back for being frugal!).
I'm sure that dementia can play a heavy part in hoarding but for older people who grew up with Depression starved parents and grandparents, I think it might just be a bit of a mental legacy.
Personally, I have got to conquer the hoarding inheritance from Mom (after all, I didn't live through the Depression) and get rid of some of this stuff before my PoA has to write about me on this site!
I wish everyone good luck in dealing with this pesky and often unhealthy problem.
I remember being in my grandmother's apartment and opening the refrigerator door to get some milk. She swooped in on me and got all anxious about it. "What are you doing? What are you looking for?" as she closed the door. When I told her what I wanted, so she opened that door, got the milk, and closed it so fast my head spun. This was to save electricity.
My mother is 83 and has always been somewhat of a hoarder and I think it's getting a bit worse as she ages. She won't just take things to the thrift store for donation. They have to sit in a corner taking up space in the living room for a garage sale that never quite happens. She doesn't need the chump change these things will bring.
Anyway, thanks for helping me maybe understand it better. It probably came from my grandmother.
I am on a minimalism trajectory as I get older as I can't abide having too much stuff anymore. It drains my energy to look at things I'm not using or enjoying anymore. If I can't sell them online, I get rid of them faster by now.
Stephen King wrote in his novel, Holly, "Holder-onners are never able to understand let-goers. They are tribes that just can’t understand each other..."