Father lured and now stuck for 30k and growing in a Jamaican lotto scam. Will I be able to get guardianship?

JJ; has your dad had a neuropsych evaluation? This is 4-6 hour pencil and paper testing that will delve into his planning, insight and problem solving abilities.

Talk to his doctors about how to get this accomplished. He is not "sharp as a tack". He just talks a good game.

If HE doesn't care about his lack of ability to pay for lifesaving medication, should you care more than he does?

That's a serious question.

JJ, have you spoken to his primary care physician about this issue? There are some medications (primarily for Parkinson's) that can lead to uncontrollable gambling.

You need to sit him down and tell him that you will NOT be responsible for him if he loses all his money, that he will be a pauper and possibly become homeless if this continues. Put it in writing; get it notarized.

If he has a lawyer, take him to his lawyer and make a big deal of telling him in front of the lawyer that you are relinquishing your "obligations" as a dutiful child because of his addiction. Tell him that he will need to rely on his so-called "friends" to care for him because he will have no money for care.

I'm sorry that he's gotten caught up in this.

If he is passing the tests, he is not going to be declared incompetent and made a ward of the state. If he gambles his money away, then he will have to face facts. It’s his money to lose and you can’t control if he is competent. Do not enable him.

"He was screaming at me for not giving him money for the lotto scammers and they told me that it sounds like he is an addict and they sent him a letter about common scams"

Please do NOT EVER give him money.
Ever.

Because you KNOW how it will be used if you give him any.

Jjwahl, I know this is hard to hear. But the only thing you can do is try to get guardianship. That is the only thing you have control over. If you CAN’T get guardianship, that means your father is competent, and can make ALL his own choices. Even BAD choices. He nay blow right through the 600,000. He can!!! It’s HIS money, not yours. Believe me. It took me years of counseling to figure all this out!! You cannot save your father from himself if the court says he is a competent man. Please stay with us on this and let us know the outcome one way or the other. I’m sorry it’s not what you want to hear. I didn’t want to hear it either. It’s like trying to hide drugs from a drug addict or hiding booze from an alcoholic. They will FIND a way!!!! Remember that. They will find a way. You can block your father and put him in a bubble and he will FIND a way. Talk to a counselor for YOURSELF!!!

I meant to say he could NOT answer basic questions.

Jjwahl you just said 2 evaluators said your father is sharp. So is my mother. You will never get guardianship if they say he is sharp. My friends father is 97 and they got him tested. He does have dementia because he could answer basic questions. What is your name? When is your birthday? Who is the president? How many children do you have? What are there names? What month is it? Can your father answer these questions correctly? There is your answer.

jjwahl, your father is a gambling addict just like my mother. You can’t make them stop anymore than you can make a drug addict stop taking drugs or an alcoholic stop drinking alcohol. My Mother depleted ALL of her hundreds of thousands of dollars my Father made being ca VP at a company. Nothing has stopped her. Depleting her savings hasn’t stopped her. Not driving anymore hasn’t stopped her. She takes call a bus to a grocery store that has a scratch off machine to blow her social security and monthly pension on. You can’t stop him. He is an addict. Let him hit is own rock bottom. If you help him you are enabling him. Don’t do it. When my mother couldn’t drive anymore at age 92 she asked her doctor to write a script for a motorized scooter. I called the doctor and told her not to do it because she wanted to use it from her house and drive it into the village to the gas station to play the scratch off tickets!!!!!!! I kid you NOT!!!!!!!! The doctor listened to me and wouldn’t let her have a motorized scooter.

this is a freaking nightmare!

I need to raise an issue that I found well beyond surprising the first time I read it.  It's that a doctor is "writing a letter of competency to fix an old will".  Perhaps it's the wording, but doctors can NOT fix wills.    Only the individual who created the Will can change it.   

And the people who should do it are qualified attorneys.   Doctors may have some knowledge, but estate planning is NOT their profession.    

If the specific wording of this action is at fault, I apologize, but the concept of a  doctor writing a letter to "fix" a will raises serious credibility issues.

JJ it’s good that you’ve clarified a few things in your posts, but I haven’t seen any mention of any steps taken to inhibit communications. Ex, disabling the cell or house phone, losing the charger, changing the phone number, changing email address or his password. You may have to do these things creatively under the radar and with a good story.
A suggestion: When my mom was getting more confused using her computer email and getting tons of junk mail, I switched her to PawPaw Mail which is a service for elders (or anyone actually) that is very simple for them. The system required an administrator (me) with my own password. I set up all her current contacts and if anyone not on the contact list tried to email her, it would come to me instead, and I could approve it or not. She could still do all her other games etc, nothing looked different on the computer. This was solely for email and changed her addy from a TimeWarner address to a pawpaw mail one. This was a few years ago, there may be other providers like that now as well. Again you may have to get creative in execution.

Jjwahl, don’t enable him or bail him out and save your money for counseling for yourself. He is an addict. He will have to suffer the consequences of his actions. If he is deemed competent he has to fall down all by himself. He is an addict. My mother is a gambling addict, an alcoholic and a hoarder and very competent!!!! I got counseling for myself to let go of HER!!!

Jjwahl, you say a doct is writing a letter of competency to fix an old will. You can’t have it both ways. He’s either competent or he isn’t.

jjwahl, your father is right. It’s HIS money and none of YOUR business if he is competent. I pray that all of the doctors find him incompetent so you can get guardianship. But if he is deemed competent and you can’t get guardianship you are banging your head against the wall. Walk away if he is deemed competent. Make peace with the fact he is going to throw all of his money out the window. That is the cold hard truth. I got slapped with the cold hard truth with my mother. I am only speaking from experience. I am done banging my head against the wall. I am my mothers daughter NOT her caregiver.

jjwahl, worriedincali was right. You can’t get guardianship just because he is gullible to scammers.,He can throw all his money out the window if he wants. If he doesn’t speak to you again then let it go and move on. You already said that the doctors have tested him and not one of them said he is incompetent. Just let it go.

jjwahl, does your father live by himself? Can he take care of himself? He s going to be upset with you if you try to deem him incompetent and it turns out he is competent.

JJWahl, I'm confused.  You wrote:

"Its mainly his bank account, he just added me on the side just in case. I cant act without being guardian so ordered by the courts."

What does this mean?  There are standard phrases for ownership of an account, but I've never heard of "on the side".   Could you explain?   This is something new to me.

"I cant act without being guardian so ordered by the courts".   So, you HAVE tried through court action?     What kind of action, and what kind of court order was entered?   I'm curious; I'm not familiar with this action unless it was a denial of an attempt to get an order allowing you access or a rejection of some kind of petition you might have filed.  

Was this at a Circuit Court level?  

So he has an old flip phone.. somehow manage to "break it" and oh boy,, now we have to get a new one, with a new number.. hopefully he does not have the scammers number memorized,, and with a new number perhaps they will no longer be able to contact him. There are still flip phones out there if he only wants that kind.. like the Jitterbug that AARP advertises for? I would be all over "knocking it to the floor by accident and then tripping/stepping on it" Good luck with this!

So, he ends up sending thousands of dollars to individuals in various scams until he is broke, then ends up in a nursing home. How will that affect the 5 yr. look back? He won't be eligible for Medicaid, will he?

Can you talk to someone at his bank and at the Trust company and anywhere else he has money and figure out how to get around this? Surely they see this frequently.

Also, take incremental steps in getting him to sign things that will give you more insight and power regarding his finances.

This story hurts my heart and upsets me greatly.
$30K!
Why oh WHY will he not listen to his own child or logic and reasoning?

If your dad is not in a Filial Responsibility state you will probably be spared the responsibility. I believe it follows where the parent lives, not the child. I have tried to get my State Rep to address and change this law and he refuses (he is a Republican) even though a bipartisan bill was introduced (and sits going nowhere) to release this archaic law. Basically he told me "the courts would decide." BS. If we have zero rights in preventing a situation where our parents squander all their money away, why should we be responsible to support them when all the funds are gone due to their bad choices?? I imagine that, someday, I may be in a situation where I fight this to the highest court possible. If guardianship were made easier in these situations I would be okay with it.

JJwahl, it's always sad and upsetting to read that someone has become victim to yet another scam.   It's not new, and probably will never be eliminated, but know that you're not alone, nor is your father alone.  It doesn't happen only to older people.

I don't recall the site now but I read sometime ago that as people age they tend to become less active and interactive, but still have the desire to share with those who are less fortunate.   I think this need is an important driver behind the vulnerability of people who do fall for these scams:  they truly believe they're helping someone.  And the scammers know and prey on this.

So perhaps you could focus on this and find a local charity, or activity, that would reward your father in feeling better about giving, of his time.   Is he still mobile enough to, say help pack groceries for a food pantry?   Visit animals and pet them, or read to them (yes, there is a program for people to read to therapy dogs)?  

Or go to Senior Centers and interact with others, perhaps even just for meals?   Could he help with projects - sorting donations for charity sales?   Something that made him feel he's reaching out and helping others would be the goal.


What I tried to do was focus on only those charities I knew were good, had a "donation" time at which we sat down together and wrote checks to charities I had vetted, then went out for a meal afterward.  I wanted to create feeling good with specific charities, and reinforcing that with time spent together, i.e., bonding after donating, to RECOGNIZED charities.   Whether or not it would work for others....I don't know.

Not to diminish anyone else's suggestions, but personally I think you'd get better advice and action from law enforcement than from an elder law attorney, who really has no law enforcement authority whatsoever.

Search your state to see if you can find out if there are task forces addressing scams, at the Sheriff's, local police and State Police levels.   I did learn that there was a SP task force in my state (several years ago), and contacted them.  BlueFinSpirit has good suggestions on others to contact, specifically an Internet task force.  

I don't know if it's possible, but the police could advise whether or not injunctive relief, such as a PPO (Personal Protection Order) could be issued, putting a stop to any further contact,  but also creating another level of criminal liability for breach.    If this can be applied to Internet contact, it could block the spammer, IF the wording included something "any and all aliases" the spammer is using.  

That would I think involve the spammers ISP(s), although he/she/it could always switch, but a broadly worded PPO could address that.  

I'm wondering also if you can contact your father's ISP and ask them to participate, by blind copying you on any of your father's communications outside of family or legitimate ones.     If you had law enforcement support for this, the ISP would have to comply.


Have you scoured the terms of the DPOA to determine what activates it, specifically?   There might be a clause that allows you to participate, if not take over, finances.   

You wrote that you're "on his main bank account."   To what extent?  How exactly is the account titled?  If you're joint owners with rights of survivorship", I'm sure that you can act on the account now.

Try to find out if his carrier has the new spam scam blocking ability, Verizon just implemented this and it stops these calls from coming through.

I would also change the numbers in his phone and have the new number one that says it has been disconnected, make sure that the number looks very similar to the original.

I would also contact the credit agencies and put a fraud alert on all 3, this way they can not open new accounts in his name. His identity has been stolen by them at this point.

As others have said show him videos that tell his story to him.

Best of luck, the exploitation of seniors and vulnerable people is on the rise and it takes some creative solutions to protect our stubborn, know it all elders.

My mom just got hit with a solar installation that she thinks will be cheaper than the 100.00 a month power bill she was paying. No convincing her that the 109.00 monthly lease fee is already more than she pays and she will still have a power bill. Thank God we showed up when we did or she would have had a giant hole in her house that they just left. What?!? And she was okay with this.

I hope you can get guardianship. But if he is deemed competent there is absolutely NOTHING you can do. He probably does have a gambling addiction if he is of sound mind. My mother is 95 years old and pissed away ALL of her HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of dollars at the casino over the years. My father tried stopping her when she first became addicted but even he couldn’t stop her. He died 22 years ago. An elder lawyer said you can’t seem someone incompetent just because they make bad choices. The only thing she has left is her house that she still lives in. But she has no money to fix it up or for repairs. Not my problem.

I don't know if this might help - Barclays ran a TV advertising campaign about online security which was pretty good: bite size films about the many, creative ways that scammers and fraudsters part us from our money.

For something with more local flavour for your father, try googling "digital security ad campaigns" and see if there isn't one that might get through to him. It's nice that all the power of advertising is on the side of the angels for once!

You won’t be declared his guardian unless he’s deemed mentally incompetent. Unfortunately he is free to throw his money in every direction as along as he is mentally competent. If this is the only issue that come up, there’a not a chance will you win guardianship of him.

I think that you need to take these facts to his doctor; check also with an Elder Law Attorney (or do you HAVE one already who suggested representing you in court for the guardianship). I think this could go either way, because if your father passed the tests for dementia he has a right to do pretty much anything he wants to with his money. He can bury it, flush it or give it away and seems he chose the latter. What an awful thing, and I hope folks on the forum all know how very vulnerable our elders are.

Very few things in life upset me as much as these scammers taking advantage of the elderly!

I'm sure you've done all the internet searches on this, but do checkout the U.S. Embassy website in Jamaica:
https://jm.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/victims-of-crime/scams/

I'm not sure going after guardianship is the easiest or best approach. I don't believe a court is going to grant guardianship simply based on the fact your father is gullible and trusting of these scammers. You do, however, need to convince your father that this is, in fact, a scam!
Show him the embassy web page above, show him news articles (https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/jamaican-lottery-scam-victim-waiting-full-restitution-66893264), but don't be argumentative over it. Be persistent and caring. Make sure he knows you are just trying to help, but also that this is a very real scam that many others have fallen prey to.

If you haven't already... REPORT IT! So many of these scams go on for years because nobody reports them.

Contact the following:
Federal Trade Commission at www.ftc.gov
Internet Crime Complaint Center at www.ic3.gov
U.S. Embassy in Kingston at [email protected]
Call a local news station, call your representative, call the police, etc.

Unfortunately, your father, in all likelihood, will not see any of the money he's already lost ever again. You need to convince him to stop. Maybe "accidentally" lose the checkbook for a month and take that time to convince him.

If he truly is addicted - I have my doubts, and I wonder if deep-down he knows he's been had, but simply can't admit it to himself or others - then what about playing the lottery legitimately here in the U.S.? Make it a father/son thing: Go down once a week and buy $5 worth of lottery tickets. Didn't win this week? Oh, well, we'll try again next week.

Just brainstorming here, but please do REPORT IT!

All the best!

My God! I pray this is resolved soon!
when I moved back in with my mom, I found science experiments in refrigerator, toilets and shower was not cleaned, floors and furniture extremely dusty and after taking of all that, I was wondering why in hell she kept pulling money out of her savings to feed her checking account. WELL! Since my sister and I are on her bank accounts, the bank authorized me to open her account online. Behold were MANY donations and I mean MANY! Some from religious organizations. I made 53 phone calls to get her off mailing lists, scolded a nun for ripping my mother out of $80 within two months! You see, I realized my mom wasn’t remembering who she was giving money away to. She would just write checks whenever they came into her possession. SO! I have been confiscating ALL her mail! Just gave her her bills, that’s it. However, I have to say, I have taken a few THOUSAND pieces of mail all looking for a donation since March. She messed up her checkbook so badly, I think she knew something wasn’t right. It took me 5-1/2 hours to rewrite a new register in pencil, using my laptop to make all of the adjustments to make her register current and found she had way more money than what was shown. So I had to tell her I was taking over her finances. I show her what bills I’m paying and show her her balance, but in her mind, she’s itching to take over. Not happening! Some were scaring her in thinking she was saving herself from losing Social Security money.
I took this further with her primary doctor and advised the Memory Program. It’ll be in January but I made this appointment in May! That’s the earliest she can be tested. This will not be pretty to say the least. I have a reinforcer coming with me because she won’t disagree to go if my sister-in-law who no one says no to. She’s been so forgetful and only having 10% of her hearing left, it’s a challenge. She refuses hearing aids!
I have four siblings in this region and three out of state.
But they have seen with their own eyes that I was NOT making this stuff up!
Its routine that she tells family that I don’t keep her informed but that’s how bad her memory has gotten.
Phew! Long winded here! My humblest apologies!
Jjwahl. Time to take over the finances.
Mine incident happened here when I wasn’t here. Some car warranty person got my mother to pay over $2000 for something she doesn’t even drive anymore! My sister-in-law was here the next morning and asked if I knew about this transaction. My mother called her to say she got a great deal on a warranty. RED ALERT! So my advice is to speak to family first, have a plan of action and stuck to it. Just saying.