Father lured and now stuck for 30k and growing in a Jamaican lotto scam. Will I be able to get guardianship?

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Father lured and now stuck for 30k and growing in a Jamaican lotto scam. Will I be able to get guardianship?

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Jjwahl you just said 2 evaluators said your father is sharp. So is my mother. You will never get guardianship if they say he is sharp. My friends father is 97 and they got him tested. He does have dementia because he could answer basic questions. What is your name? When is your birthday? Who is the president? How many children do you have? What are there names? What month is it? Can your father answer these questions correctly? There is your answer.

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He was given 3 test, I sat in on one and he did better than I would. One other said mild issues but not dementia, the final said he was sharp but would be going to court regardless. He knew his name, kids name, birthday, ss#, could spell world backwards, could do the +7 math great, Father is still in connect with his scammer. Did you mean to say your father does NOT have dementia because he could answer?

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I meant to say he could NOT answer basic questions.

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Well, my father according to what you say is not demented and thus will be deemed competent. What are your thoughts on the angle that he is being exploited?

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Jjwahl, I know this is hard to hear. But the only thing you can do is try to get guardianship. That is the only thing you have control over. If you CAN’T get guardianship, that means your father is competent, and can make ALL his own choices. Even BAD choices. He nay blow right through the 600,000. He can!!! It’s HIS money, not yours. Believe me. It took me years of counseling to figure all this out!! You cannot save your father from himself if the court says he is a competent man. Please stay with us on this and let us know the outcome one way or the other. I’m sorry it’s not what you want to hear. I didn’t want to hear it either. It’s like trying to hide drugs from a drug addict or hiding booze from an alcoholic. They will FIND a way!!!! Remember that. They will find a way. You can block your father and put him in a bubble and he will FIND a way. Talk to a counselor for YOURSELF!!!

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"He was screaming at me for not giving him money for the lotto scammers and they told me that it sounds like he is an addict and they sent him a letter about common scams"

Please do NOT EVER give him money.
Ever.

Because you KNOW how it will be used if you give him any.

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well, what should I do when its the weekend and he is out of lifesaving medication? I have bought it myself, otherwise I give him nothing. Great advise, thank you.

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If he is passing the tests, he is not going to be declared incompetent and made a ward of the state. If he gambles his money away, then he will have to face facts. It’s his money to lose and you can’t control if he is competent. Do not enable him.

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Thank you for your advice, well taken. I wish I never learned about this, he told me himself. I must admit that I can be a controlling person especially in situations like this. He better not sober up a broke old man and ask me why I didn't do anything to stop him! Do you think the courts may intervene somehow and mandate him to counseling? I just don't stop do I? I wonder if I will have legal issues for even bringing him to case, I do have DPOA and HIPPA papers..I could've read that there's no dementia issues, or talked to his Drs but was eager to stop him asap and didnt believe him when he said he passed.

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JJ, have you spoken to his primary care physician about this issue? There are some medications (primarily for Parkinson's) that can lead to uncontrollable gambling.

You need to sit him down and tell him that you will NOT be responsible for him if he loses all his money, that he will be a pauper and possibly become homeless if this continues. Put it in writing; get it notarized.

If he has a lawyer, take him to his lawyer and make a big deal of telling him in front of the lawyer that you are relinquishing your "obligations" as a dutiful child because of his addiction. Tell him that he will need to rely on his so-called "friends" to care for him because he will have no money for care.

I'm sorry that he's gotten caught up in this.

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that is a great idea!

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JJ; has your dad had a neuropsych evaluation? This is 4-6 hour pencil and paper testing that will delve into his planning, insight and problem solving abilities.

Talk to his doctors about how to get this accomplished. He is not "sharp as a tack". He just talks a good game.

If HE doesn't care about his lack of ability to pay for lifesaving medication, should you care more than he does?

That's a serious question.

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Its a known fact that I care more than him, if stubborn stupidity kills, he would've been dead long ago. He was recently approached to do a controlled study for dementia medication. It was a paid clinical study and they did hours long evaluations on him including MRI and other brain scans. He said he passed even though I think he tried to fudge it. I have not talked to his Drs, but the courts appointed one as part of three team evaluators in my efforts to deem him an incapacitated ward. They did a series of test on him over the course of 3 days some were written, he did well on drawing clocks, shapes.

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HE said he passed? And you believe that?

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I find this entire saga unbelievable, but he was not called in for the study so yes, guess its crazy but likely true. If I didn't sit in on him taking that one test with a Dr. and doing much better than I would've I would think you were lying if you told me he passed. I watched a video done by Teepa Snow saying that some pass these test bc they are smart , I don't believe that at all. I likely can not get him declared screwed out of his rights with what Ive got for damn sure. I wish I could stop obsessing for an epiphany, a single revelation to solve his giving his money to 3rd world criminals.

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I told him about a woman that lost 400k and he said that she is a fool and that he would have stopped at 100k! Dear Lord...

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Gambling disorder is recognized as a social/behavioral disorder by the DSM- V. There are a number or criteria for this disorder and the patient must meet four of the criteria to be formally diagnosed. Being diagnosed with this disorder is most likely not a basis for a court to declare him incompetent nor the basis for a diagnosis of dementia.

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He doesnt seem to be an addict but at times, he was totally obsessed with sending that money ASAP, he could not focus on anything else, but I wonder if falling prey to a scam is grounds for guardianship? Maybe I jumped the gun a bit. I have not seen him in months, but with his withdraws and believing at one time that he won the lotto made me very concerned.

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https://www.alzdiscovery.org/cognitive-vitality/blog/are-people-at-high-risk-for-dementia-more-vulnerable-to-scams

Interesting study.

The fact that your dad was not selected for the medication does not mean he "passed". It means he didn't fit the criteria they were looking for in study participants.

Please call his doctor tomorrow and discuss his troubling behavior.

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Thanks Barb, I agree that there has to be something in there not quite right.

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My mother gave away over $80000 to an overseas scammer that she thought was in love with her. She was later diagnosed with Frontal Lobe Dementia with severe delusional disorder. She is now in Assisted Living. I had to take Guardianship to stop here from losing any more money. The process was stressful but overall fairly easy. Just talk to a good elder care attorney. At least here in North Carolina, it was a fairly easy process.

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My father hasn't been diagnosed with any of that, he did well on test that were appointed by the court that Im bringing him to for guardianship. He so far has no excuses. Do you think I have a shot in getting a hold through the courts? Seems like it is the only way to stop the madness.

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Call the phone company and have the scammer's number blocked. Report this scammer to the authorities. Print information about different types of scams with examples of how elderly people get scammed by phone solicitors and make him read it. Tell him it is not safe to answer calls from unknown numbers. Block all numbers except those he is familiar with. Call the phone company and see if they have any solutions about how to protect your elderly father from all the scammers. Is there a way to block all numbers except his doctors and family members? Ask AARP (He would never know that you did this). Or, disconnect his phone. Get him a mobile phone instead. Monitor his calls....Block numbers that are suspicious.

Regarding guardianship, I would talk to his primary doctor and express your concern over what is happening. Ask the doctor to refer him to a Neuropsychologist for a more extensive evaluation. Also, ask the doctor to order and MRI to get imaging of his brain.

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His primary Dr agreed on writing a letter of competency. AARP thinks he has an addiction and sent a letter about common scams. I have blocked numbers, this scammer just keeps getting more or father calls them. His decade old flip phone has limited functions. Scammers calls were forwarded to the authorities, he doesn't care. I wish I could get my father to cut his loses and move on. The good news is he isnt going around telling everyone that he has won, he eithers says he doesn't know or doesn't thinks so. I am afraid the court thing will drive a irreparable wedge between us. Maybe I should've been more gentle and seen his Dr before he had asked for the letter of competency.

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I agree with Becky. Look up the gambling addiction criteria. They have to have at least 4 of them. My mother has ALL of them. She is 95 years old and has been out of control gambling since the casino came to our state in 1992. She gambled away her whole retirement nest egg. She now just scrapes by on social security and half of my fathers pension since he died. Her house is in need of repairs. She has no money for her repairs. She pays her monthly bills on time, heat and utility bill, health insurance bill, and her phone bill. That’s all she has. Her mortgage is paid for. She has no car. The rest of her money goes for groceries and gambling. Always trying to win back all the money she has lost. She’s taking call a bus tomorrow to the grocery store from noon till 7pm to grocery shop and the rest of the time play the scratch off machine.,She’s not demented.,Just an addict. Still waiting for her to hit rock bottom.

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shame addiction isnt enough to gain guardianship. my father is behind on most his bills because of it. Have you ever looked into going to court?

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Jjwahl, I meant to say my friends father DOES have dementia because he COULD NOT answer any simple questions such as what is your name? Who is the president? How many children do you have. He was deemed incompetent. My mother can answer all these questions. She does not have dementia. She’s just kooky. She has always been kooky, but not demented. I can’t get guardianship over a mother who is Kooky.

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have you tried? Hoarders are usually in unsafe conditions..?

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jjwahl, I looked up elder exploitation and it said to call Adult Protective Services. They have laws protecting elders in each state. Try that route.

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that is what im doing through the courts

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Jjwahl, I can’t go to court for my mother. I already talked to an elder lawyer. He told me just because she makes bad choices( not showering or bathing, gambling addict, alcoholic, hoarder,) does not mean my mother is incompetent. She is very manipulative and sharp. When she was in her late 80’s she got in a car accident, just a fender bender and she had to go to the dmv to take the road test again. I was in the backseat and watched me mother schmooze and tell the instructor every fun fact known to man. The driving instructor turned around to me and said your mothers mind is sharper than your and mine combined. He said I’ll pass you. You don’t need to take the road test. You won’t lose your license. Needless to say my jaw dropped to the ground. She just told him everything he wanted to hear.

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Mine said that my father doesn't know that he is being scammed and told me to threatened him with it. After a couple months of threats, I decided to petition the courts. I'm afraid that if I fail there all other petitions will look frivolous,

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anyone want an update?

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Yes

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Dad did well on his 3 court ordered evals. I even reached out to the last evaluator and filled her head before she went out (which helped BTW). My attorney said that even with that push, Dad was not considered incapacitated and it would be up to his roomy testimony and he would talk his way out of it in the courtroom. So case will be dismissed.

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Dad is still giving money to the scammer, his roomy accused me of just caring about his money bc of past health issues and a series of accidents in the past that I ignored. Roomy feels stuck bc no one else cared when he was really in danger of hurting himself and others.

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Roomy is angry and told me to hire help for my father, sent it in a message as a "disclaimer". Can roomy be held responsible?

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Can roomy be held liable for what? Not testifying in court? No he can’t be held liable. He can plead the 5th. He’s not responsible for your dad or what your dad does with his money.

So it sounds like you didn’t obtain guardianship and this point dad is considered competent? So you are back where you started.

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Sometimes the only thing that we can do is walk away.

It sounds like the roommate could have helped in court and chose not to. I am sorry. I would make it clear that they lost the right to chew on me when they didn't help me in court to protect my dad.

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well, thats how I kinda feel about it but roomy knows the day to day functions better than I so maybe its the truth thats hurting. I live over 2000 miles away.

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I hope I’m wrong, but my gut tells me that we’ve all been scammed into following this thread. Did I miss the mention of a roommate earlier?

”Sometimes the only thing we can do is walk away.” That’s what I’m doing.

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do some scrolling back, youll find it

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They give you the answer jjwahl, your dad is NOT incompetent. He can throw his money out the car window if he so chooses. Let it go and walk away. There is NOTHING you can do about it!!!

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You were right all along elaine. I do need to let go, but its so hard.

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jjwahl,

It’s terribly sad. I just don’t see a solution though. So unfortunate! I’m so sorry you have this heartache. Hugs! I think your only choice as hard as it is, is to accept it.

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thank you, its heart wrenching and I feel so guilty and powerless for not being able to stop the madness. My father seems to be thinking more clearly everyday too. He truly thinks he is making rash decisions. He says he will stop sending money, but ends up thinking whats another few hundred bc he doesnt want to risk not getting the money. How are people with this thought process not deemed incompetent?

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Jjwahl, I wish I wasn’t right. But I learned it the hard way. My mother spent every last dime that my father made in his lifetime. He saved a lot of money. One time when I was a young adult but before my mother started gambling, my father said to me “do you need any money? I have more money than god”. I told him no. I was working and didn’t need any. The thought of my mother gambling ALL of his money and NOBODY could stop her is downright pathetic. She looks like a homeless person. Whenever she goes to the grocery store, people give her 5.00 here and there. I said to her did you take the money from them. Her reply, of course I did. I had to let it go years ago. You will have to do the same.

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elaine, do you reckon my father will never stop with this scammer? He has been at it for over a half year, half that time he says he is done. Am I wrong for thinking he is slowly learning? Recovering?

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needhelpwithmom, you are so right. Intelligent people, competent people making bad decisions. My mother was a school teacher and got her bachelors degree. Addiction doesn’t care if you are rich or poor, young or old, happy or sad etc. Addiction can take over ANYBODYS life!!!

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Elaine,

Yep! My neighbor has advanced degrees and oh my gosh, he has made bad investments one after another. At one point his wife took on a second job. She told him that his investments were a bad gamble.

There are crazies in any area. Rich, poor, educated or not, etc. I know someone that robbed a bank through the drive through window! Who does that? The teller gave him only $20. He got mad. Drove around and went back through the line and got caught. Hahaha. He had a degree too.

The flip side, look at Dolly Parton. One of the most shrewd business people with mega millions and she doesn’t have an MBA. That lady is so talented and very smart!

Gotta say though, Elaine. I would love to win a mega power ball lottery. But I never buy a stinking ticket! Hahaha 😆. My husband buys one only when the prize is really high.

I would travel! I am more about experiences than material things. I would donate to certain causes that I care about.

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Needhelpwithmom, I like your way of thinking!! I would love to win the mega powerball too but in never buy a ticket either. The thing about my mother is she didn’t have any addictions when I was growing up. She never smoked, she never drank alcohol, she never did drugs, she never gambled, and she wasn’t a hoarder!!!! None of it when I was growing up. She started all these additions when she was 68 years old back on 1992 she started gambling. Then when my father died in 1998 all the hoarding started. Then she never drank alcohol because her father was an alcoholic. She didn’t start drinking alcohol till she was 92 years old!!! That started when her car died and she couldn’t drive to the casino. So addictions can start at any age and progress.

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Jjwahl, let’s put it this way. I’m still waiting for my mother to quit gambling. She doesn’t think she has a problem. It’s been 27 years and I am still waiting. They lie and connive just like an alcoholic or a drug addict. They tell you what YOU want to hear to get them off their backs.

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maddening! Your mother is deriving some sort of pleasure gambling, as crazy as it sounds but what is my father getting? Maybe its a different level of scam? I can not wrap my mind around this, casinos are legit (although a ripoff) but my dad sending money to Jamaica just doesnt register as a sound minded prudent person.

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Jjwahl, people with that thought process are not deemed incompetent. They are addicts!!!!

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Father lured and now stuck for 30k and growing in a Jamaican lotto scam. Will I be able to get guardianship?

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