Does having a general durable POA give me the right to take away car keys?

ChasingMom: Perhaps it's due time for your mother to be in a memory care facility. She is quite likely going to injure herself while 'running.' Definitely do NOT give her the car keys. Have her physician take the fall on the no driving.

The answer to your liability question is maybe and if her doctor will put the no driving order in writing that might help your cause. This is how we convinced my mom to stop driving, when she was released from the hospital after her stroke she was given orders of no driving, among other things so when she started pushing hard on the driving thing we told her that since the order was in her medical records and nobody had signed off on it being ok again my brother and I could be help liable for letting her drive when we knew she wasn’t supposed to, even if the accident wasn’t her fault. When she pushed doctors on the driving subject she was told she could take this special driving test if she felt that confident but she never opted to do that.

Let the doctors take the fall and give her incentive and a way to protect you.

This is one of the hardest things to manage. Driving is a HUGE issue and marker of independence. They fight tooth and nail to keep driving even if they have people to take them where they want to go. I tried for over a year to keep my dad out of his car. He lived in CA and I was in NYC. In CA when you get any form of dementia the doctor has to report you to the DMV. They then get paperwork to fill out and are supposed to come down to the DMV for a driving test and such. The paperwork came and he didn’t understand it, got mad, and threw it away. So he got a notice that his license had been revoked. He said he didn’t care and was going to drive anyway. We disabled the car. He just took his old car down and had it fixed to drive it. And then had the one we disabled towed to the shop and fixed. So now he had 2 working cars. The man couldn’t remember what year he was born or who was president, but he could figure out how to make all these maneuvers to get the cars fixed without any help from us. The maddening world of Alzheimer’s!

We notified the local police and asked what could be done. Basically nothing by them unless he had an accident or was pulled over for a traffic violation. So I removed the registration tags from his cars in the hopes he would get pulled over. Nope.

Eventually he had an accident right in front of his house. He hit his friends truck. The truck was not damaged but he crushed in the front of his car so we were able to have it towed and told him it was not fixable. So he just shrugged and said, “Okay, I’ll drive the other car.” His girlfriend took him away for a day and I had the other car driven off. He came home to find no car and we told him it must have been stolen. He went ballistic. I even had my step father call and pretend to be a police officer to calm him down by telling him they were looking for the car so not to worry about it for a few weeks while they found it. Hoping we could buy some time while he calmed down. Nope.

He tried unsuccessfully for a couple of weeks to buy a new car but I had frozen his credit and now his dementia was pretty obvious so the dealerships turned him away. He would make his girlfriend take him to the dealerships and she would pull them aside and tell them what was up. They would tell him they couldn’t sell him a car because he didn’t have a license or because he had no credit. It was heartbreaking for him. He even resorted to calling me and telling me I had to buy him a car and he would use my license. I had to explain it didn’t work like that, you can’t use someone else’s license as your own, but that I would hire him a driver to come get him and take him where he wanted to go. I assured him he would not be stranded or stuck in the house. He was furious.

My father took his own life a few weeks after this. I am certain it was this final loss of the independence of driving that was the tipping point for him. This is almost a month ago now that he has been gone. I have moments where I feel guilty for being the catalyst for the cars being taken away but what choice did I have? Continue to let a man with now pretty advanced dementia drive and possibly kill someone? Get in a bad enough accident that he ended up physically disabled as well as mentally disabled? Not to mention my father had substantial assets so all that was in jeopardy if he hurt someone badly enough and they lawyered up.

Most people are not going to do what my father did over the loss of driving. That was extreme. He was a very difficult man. He did things on his terms, always, and to hell with the consequences. That is a very tough combination with Alzheimer’s. He was also brilliant and tough and had a huge heart and helped many people in his life. Bought people homes, paid for educations, etc. It’s an awful disease and at 82 years old he decided to leave this world as he lived. On his terms, always.

Do what you need to do to keep your LO out of their cars.

Your mother needs to be in memory care; ABSOLUTELY DO NOT return her car keys.

It sounds like you are so enmeshed that you can’t think straight.

Disable the car!

Actually with a POA, you can probably sell it, and she couldn’t do a thing about it, but I’d talk to the lawyer just to be certain.

Check your DMV’s rules about this, you can probably pull her license with a doctor’s note.

And it’s not about liability, it’s about her hurting someone when you could have prevented it.

If it's any consolation, there are 2 stories, locally where I'm at, where elderly drivers did the old "mistake gas pedal for brake". One led to a damaged building, the other, a 19 yr old was hit.

How about moral responsibilty? It is time to put her in a more secure environment as she will eventually hurt herself and me.

Being held liable for her car accidents could vary from state of state. When I lived in Florida, I was familiar with laws there. Here's info from a Florida legal website. I know someone in FL who was responsible for his brother, who had dementia and suddenly disappeared in his car for days. My friend's daughter is an attorney; thus, the escape resulted in brother going to a locked group home. Read on: (And in whose name is the demented driver's car titled? Not you, I hope.)

Who is Responsible for an Auto Accident Caused by an Elderly Driver? A lot of people who are caring for aging parents worry about what could happen if the aging parent was to cause an auto accident or hit a pedestrian. In Florida, adults are responsible for their own actions. There are some big exceptions, however.

Is a power of attorney responsible for car accident injuries? If you hold a valid power of attorney or have been appointed the legal guardian for a senior, you may have additional responsibilities as outlined in the document.
Being named agent under a power of attorney does not automatically create liability, but once you accept the responsibilities and begin acting as your elderly parent’s agent, you may assume certain liabilities if you are not careful.

A senior who is losing the ability to recall key facts or places should not be driving an automobile. Still, are you legally responsible for your elderly parents? Not necessarily. The facts of every situation are unique, and this is a question that should really be discussed with an elder law attorney. Regardless of your situation, your responsibility for elderly parent driving is a case-by-case situation.

Loaning Your Car to an Elderly Driver: An elderly driver lawsuit is challenging for everyone involved. If you loan your vehicle to someone you know to be unfit to drive, you may be liable for negligent entrustment. This can indeed create a serious issue of liability.

If your loved one has dementia, a vision problem, or you suspect some other dangerous limitation, you should speak with an attorney and get a clear understanding of your legal responsibilities before allowing your loved one to drive your vehicle.

Let’s make lemonade.

She is out of the house. Good. Find her a memory care and move her from friend to memory care.

Assuming here you have all the necessary authorization to act.

As others have said don't return her keys. If you need her to return home in order to get the situation under control give her a random key (spare house key) on the car key keychain (and of course remove the car key) and pass it off as the car keys.

Good luck.

I would not give her the keys back under any circumstances.

I would let her stay at her friends, call her bluff, she will return home,

I would start looking at MC facilities to place her, she needs to be on lock down.

She needs more help than you can provide to her, time to rethink this entire situation.
Good Luck!

as others said, don't give the keys back. she could kill someone on the road. OP, you wouldn't be responsible for any driving accident. but morally-speaking, it's the right thing to do, to take away the keys, just like you would never give a drunk person a loaded gun.

i just want to point out:
"I hope you are in charge of your now diagnosed mom, and are keeping her safe with 24/7 care as that is your Fiduciary Responsibility under the law."

that's incorrect.
POA does not give you any legal obligations --- the decisions you take, should be in her best interests. but you're not under any legal obligation to take any decision. POA gives you the - possibility - to take action. it's doesn't oblige you to take action. the morally-correct thing to do, if one has no intention to help, is to resign from POA.

but POA doesn't in any way give you more obligations to help, than any other person, like let's say some other family member.

under extreme circumstances, only sometimes, adult children can be held responsible for abandoning or neglecting their elderly parent. but that has nothing to do with whether you're POA or not.

Seems like she needs more constant oversight, maybe even MC in a facility.

Do not give her back the keys, no matter how pissy she gets about it. A car that is being poorly driven is a deadly missile to her or innocent people.

Make sure you report her to the DMV as a dangerous driver so that they will start the process to call her in to retake the eye test (and maybe other tests). THey will send her a letter. Make sure no one takes her to this appointment. Let her license expire. Make sure her car insurance is cancelled. Make sure the car is removed where she doesn't even see it. Then you as DPoA has the legal ability to sell it.

She needs to be in a locked facility NOW.

Don't give her the keys. She is a safety risk to herself and others. You don't want to be dealing with the legal issues that could result from your knowing she's a safety risk and giving her back her keys. Yes, you could be held liable for accidents she causes. And no, you don't want to be looking down at her dead in her coffin after she kills herself and others by driving her vehicle when she shouldn't have.

She hates you and never wants to see you again, but she'll forget about that. She has dementia.

I don't know why she moved in with your friend or how the friend contributes to mom's eloping, but this isn't a good place for the friend to be either. You both have quite a problem on your hands, but you can solve it by getting mom into memory care, whatever it takes.

If her doctor says no more driving then he needs to report her to DMV or at least give you a letter u can take to DMV with you and have her licence revoked.

DPOA really does not give u that right, its a financial tool. But, as her child, you do have a right. She no longer can make informed decisions. You need to protect her and others. Stick to ur guns.

I hope that your DPOA is now activated completely, and if not it should be with the appropriate doctor's letters.

I hope you are in charge of your now diagnosed mom, and are keeping her safe with 24/7 care as that is your Fiduciary Responsibity under the law.

If placement is necessary for your mother you will soon enough recognize that.

Of course there is no question of her now using the car. It should be removed, and sold with your DPOA. Your mom's license should be surrendered to the DMV and an identity card made instead.

I was POA for my brother. He was diagnosed with probable early Lewy's Dementia. He made me his POA and Trustee. One of the FIRST THINGS we did was get rid of his truck (already having been in one accident), surrendered his license, changed his accounts for his protection giving him a small spending account. As well as this I created his files, paid his bills, and we chose a good ALF for him.

This is your duty. You are not allowed to shrug now and let your mother run away, let her drive away, or let her be otherwise unsafe for herself and others. If you are uncertain of what your duties are now please see an elder law attorney. Your mom's money pays for this.

You should be "blaming" the fact of taking her keys away on her doctor, since they are the ones who said she shouldn't be driving. And they are correct, she SHOULDN'T be driving.
DO NOT under any circumstances giver her the keys back, unless of course you've disabled the car first. It's certainly not fair to unsuspecting drivers to have to risk being hurt or killed by a demented woman now is it? And yes, she would be held liable if something bad happened while she was driving and could lose everything in a lawsuit, and perhaps if she's living with you and you knowingly let her continue to drive(against doctors orders), and she injures or kills someone, you could be held liable as well.
So please continue to use your common sense and do whatever you must do to keep your mom safe, including placing her in the appropriate facility.

The technical term for what mom is doing is "elopement" and it means she needs to be in a secure facility.

Sell the car.

Read your POA to understand when it takes effect. It might require a doctor's note. If your DPOA is active and allows you to do so, you should sell her car. Out of sight, out of mind. Your conscience should tell you that you don't give her keys back. If she killed herself or someone else, how could you live with yourself? If the keys are what she's obsessed with, then give them back but disable the car by removing the spark plug wires. (The battery is too easy to fix.)

Since she's a runner, she'd likely be safer in a memory care facility.