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I am 64 and my mother is 82-I recently moved to the area she lives in. She lives by herself in a retirement community. She is selfish, controling and is alway lying. Now she is always been this way but getting worse. I am trying to help her but when I do -she says I need to mind my own business. If I cant go take her someplace she pitches a fit like a 5 year. Please someone give me some advice. I have seen therapists in the past and all told me I needed to divorce her. Not sure I can because of guilt and also thinking about my dad-who died four years ago-he loved her even though she was awful to him. Please what should I do

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playagrandma, the characteristics of a person's personality often intensifies as they get older like you are seeing with your narcissistic mother.

What are you feeling guilty over? It sounds like your mother is very effective at using emotional blackmail on you which comes in the package of F.O.G. fear, obligation and guilt.

Your mother sounds like she is functioning fine in her retirement community as a narcissistic self and you can't force her to accept her help as long as she is considered competent.

If you are hoping for her to change and become the mother that it sounds like you never had, then you can put that idea aside. You didn't make her how she is. You can't control her. Nor can you fix her and make her better. All you can really do is chose a healthy path for yourself (boundaries) and stay on that path no matter what she does or does not do.

While I am sure that I would not use the word divorce, I would say you need to emotionally detach from your mother and show her love in terms of making sure she is safe and when she needs more help is taken care of. I would avoid bringing her home to live with you. That would be a horrible experience.

There is a thread "The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?" where you can find several people dealing with narcissistic parents.
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thank you so much and of course deep down, I knew what I need to know. I am the oldest of four but have lived away from all the family for many many years. The other four have been dealing with her for years but of course she has become worse since our father passed away. They have boundries and they do not step away from those boundries. Its looking like the oldest needs to take some valuable lessons from the others. Thank you
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playagrandma, don't be too hard on yourself for as in any dysfunctional family, each person has their role which very often gets assigned to us by the parent and it sounds like as the oldest, you were selected to be the very responsible, caretaker, rescue type person which we we stop playing our assigned roles makes the dysfunctional parent very angry. I wish you well on your journey toward being free from emotional blackmail.
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every little advice and support is so very helpful. The last straw was when i went to the dr with her because I felt she needed a sounding board(the others cant be bothered to do that). I could tell her dr was very frustrated because anything he trys(of course more meds)and suggested therapy. I pointed out that she had been there done that but never followed through. I found a place that I thought she would really like. However last saturday we got into a horrible fight and she told me she was not going to any therapist and needed to stop all this worrying. I pointed out that I didnt worry but just concerned-and started crying because I was so upset with her. She has yet to apologize going as far as telling her sister, my aunt, that I had made her so mad because I wouldnt take her all over in 27 degree weather in a pick up truck that is old. Its just frustrating. But I am already feeling so much. By the way my husband and siblings are very understanding and feel my frustration-its just they ae handling the situation, I am not
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I have a friend who is dedicating her to an extremely selfish and greedy mother. My friend does not have a life at all. She works all day, goes home to a screaming,selfish mother, who demands all of her. My friend says that her mother ran her father to an early grave, being the type of person she was. As I tell her, and she seems to be getting it, STEP AWAY. Your mother seems to be in good hands. It isn't as if you are deserting her. You would not allow a friend to abuse you. Why allow your mother these privileges. Abuse is abuse no matter who it comes from. Incorporating this stress will only weigh heavily on you. You can always keep an eye on her to make certain that she is being treated well. Maybe you need to do as she says, and "mind your own business." See how that works out for her.
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I feel for you. My mother is in a very nice retirement village. She doesnt drive which is part of the problem-but that is why she is where she is at-she has access to transportation. I have a new dlemma. Before the mind your own business episode, me and another brother were going to take her to one of her favorite restaurants. She called not to say she was sorry but to tell me that she wanted to call a truce and that from now on she would call me if she needed me for anything-wow what a bargain eh?-so again I have to abide by HER rules. I have decided that I dont think she needs to be rewarded for what? and yet feel guilty cause I feel now I am punishing her. Oh did I tell I was 64-not 15. I have to stop this. Also even though my siblings are all together on this-at think at some point in time they are going to tired of me complaining about this. Hey everyone have a good weekend. Your kind supportive words are getting me through this
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Hey everybody, check
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Why do we with a narcissistic parent put up with the verbal and psychological abuse that we would divorce such a spouse for. Because we were trained to and they planted those buttons in us for their emotional blackmail in us long ago so that they could continually hoover us into their drama using fear of making them mad, obligation to their needs alone, and guilt if we even have an idea, feeling or want a life or our own.
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how true and the guilt is the worse. And what makes me mad, I should have nothing to be quilty. As the oldest, I have went out of my way for many years to try and please this woman and nothing works-I will be damned if do and damned if I dont. She is attempting once again therapy. Wonjt work-hasnt in the past-wont now. She will try and convince the therapist that she had a horrible childhood(her mother took off when she was ten)-horrible husband(even though they were married 62 years before he died and loved her uncondionally)and kids that dont her what she wants-well we would if we knew. She has more attention than probably over half of the othes this retirement village and nothing is ever enough. I have looked at the above site many times-just as times like nothing helps
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playagrandma, you have nothing to feel guilt over for you have not done anything legally or morally wrong. I think there is an article or thread on this site about letting go of the guilt. The narcissist and even more so the borderline is perfect at creating a tornado and then stepping inside of it as if they are its victim. I hope the therapist sees through this.

Later today, I'm going to post some information about detaching which I hope will help.
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I could have written this. I agree I should "divorce" my mom, but my father and my sister are both dead. And even though she has been awful to me she hasn't done anything so bad that I feel I could abandon her. Many of her imagined health problems have become real. She is in a lot of pain.

I think in the end when I reflex on what I've done I'll be glad I did it. I'm setting a good example for my children and they'll help me in my old age.
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thank you. I am not sure the therapist will see through this. Up until recently, her dr I am sure bought into her lies. On her last visit, she agreed to let me go with her. She had told me before the dr has said to her she was a lonely woman. He said it again when I was there. I looked him right in the eye and she said she has no reason to be lonely-she is in the best place she can be and he agreed. He seems to be very frustrated as she calls his office all the time complaining. I will see after a few sessions how things are going. Would I be out of line if I find out that she is not telling the true story(which I am sure she wont)and give the therapist an outline on what is really going on?
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playagrandma, I am having a weird moment here. I swear, we must be twins separated at some point in our lives. My Mom is exactly, and I mean exactly, like yours. My Dad died 4 years ago. And she claims he was an alcholic (he wasn't). She too tells me "Now just don't your worry about it", when I ask some question she doesn't want to answer. This is how she keeps her secrets. And she tells everyone who will listen that she "Ain't got nobody". However her son lives 6 miles away and we try and try to help her. She is cheap beyond belief, would let her kid starve and find an excuse for doing so. Justifies everything she does and takes no responsiblity for anything. Never calls me, I have to call her. Never comes to visit,(hasn't in 13 years) it is my responsibility to buy an airline ticket and fly up to stay with her. But only two days please, because she needs to shop for shoes. The last time I came up and stayed with her for two weeks, she told my brother and her neighbor I stayed too long. When I asked her why she said this, she said "you were bored." See now it is my fault that I wasn't wanted.

When my three, yes three, girls were in college at the SAME TIME, my brother asked her to be kind and send me an airline ticket so I could visit.Money was tight then. Her response was "the plane might crash". And yes, she has almost a million dollars. I could bitch for ever, but I won't. Aren't you glad.

But do know there are alot of us out there and we can give you some good advice. You are not alone. And no more guilt. That is how she gets her way. :)

cmagnum started a wonderful thread about narcissists. Your Mom and mine are such people. Read the link daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com. There is so much information that will help you. And get angry. Yes, angry. She is selfish and using you and doesn't know what real love is. Then step away. I have and it really helps. And no I don't feel guilty because she still plays her little games.
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wow maybe we are related. Growing up my mom did the things moms are suppose to do but she of course throws that in our faces. She got pregnant with me at the age of 17 and I think a part of her as always blamed me for ruining her life. She tells people that she was so upset when she got pregnant with her last three kids. Nice eh? She had many many affairs and even got pregnant after I was married and had a child of my own. I arranged for her to have an abortion(by they way I now know that pregnancy was not my dads). None of us had a clue that she sleeping around. So one day about 20 years ago, she tells ME and all the sick details-who, where, when. I was totally speechless. And what was sadder she had told my dad. She claims he forgave-I never have and never will. She has told me more than once she thought my dad loved me more than her. My dad loved all of us uncondionally. Of course I could go on and on but now I just to find a way to deal with her. I am at the point of regretting of ever moving back to the area. I had been gone for so many years but miss my brothers and all my nieces and nephews and just wanted to come home
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Wow, so many things you have said are part of the narcissism. The affair, the passing on guilt to others. My Mom told me over and over how much it hurt when I was born and how she never wanted me to have kids. Can you believe that? How sick. Best thing I did was have my kids.

As for the doctor, of course she is manipulating him, that is what she does. Mom complains about being lonely but won't do anything, and I mean anything about it. She expects someone to do it "for" her. Cater to her needs. No one likes her very much. Neighbors have tried, family, everything is on her terms.

So what you will learn is you can not change them, you can not interact with them, and you have to disengage with them. They of course will blame you becasue they are blameless. But who cares? At some point you won't care either. That is how you survive.
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well friends she never had. There are people out there that will attempt it but soon they get tired of all her bitching and negativity. She refuses to try and do things to entertain herself-like we told her we cant help someone who refuses to help herself. Up until my dad passing away-he was her slave. He spoiled her and let her get away with anything short of murder. I think my dad even though he has been gone for 4 years, is the reason why any of us even put up with her at all. Its like I think this is what dad would want. Who knows.
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playagrandma, unless you have medical POA for your mother the therapist is not going to talk with you given the current hippa laws, but that does not mean that you cannot inform the therapist of your observations.

there are a lot of parallels between this thread and the caregiver how are you doing dysfunctional family thread.
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yeah I know all about the privacy laws. I am sure she will not sign anything allowing me to talk to any therapists. She just recently signed one with her doctor and now I guess she is regretting that. However after I a few sessions, I will probably have to inform the therapist my observations
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My sister is the narcissist. I am the caregiver for my 88 yr old dad who had a stroke & has Alzheimers. I have POA & my sister challenges me on every penny that is spent. I told her she could care for my dad & have POA. She won't do it. This week I had to cut her off, she became so vicious. It hurts but I had to do it to preserve my emotional well being. Please don't feel guilty. Google narcissistic parents & you will find great information. Good luck to you. Take good care of yourself
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We went through this with my Dad, who was ALWAYS pouty and self-centered, got worse with age and after our mom died. My brother finally hit the right note when Dad was particularly childish one day and wouldn't let it go - he said, "Okay Dad, you have a choice here. If you continue to act this way, we will just leave and you won't have time with us. If you will act better, then we will stay." No improvement, so we left. It IS very hard to deal with the guilt, esp. if the parent is not well, but I think if we had started this much sooner he might have acted better. My sister, who lived the closest, DID continue to oblige him because she felt bad. What Dad didn't get was the more he acted like this, the LESS we liked him, even tho we are sure he wanted to be loved and paid attention to so badly. So that may be the weapon - they get attention only when their behavior is appropriate. Tough -good luck!
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I always said we let our mother get by with all the crap she pulled and we all should have been our foots down years ago. However, again we did not want to be separated from our dad and we didnt want to be separated from each other especially holidays. Its only been the last couple of years they we have put our foots down. Last christmas she wasnt invited and spent christmas alone. I wasnt here so not sure how I would have reacted if I had been. Right not she is stirring up the pot once again and frankly I think she loves the attention -no matter that she is in trouble once again with all of us
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Yeah, I think that's the key with such people - they have gotten by with this crap for years and somehow love to see the tornado they create, maybe not realizing how self-defeating it is. Or maybe it's like kids: they don't care what KIND of attention they get, as long as it is attention. We never did "convert" Dad to better behavior, really, and realized when Mom was gone just how much she did to civilize him. She wouldn't take any crap from him or let him crap on us! But, yes, it does take firmness that we don't always have as kids. I guess I'd say limit your exposure to your mom and try to keep it in situations where you have a little control to say, "You're going home now" or "We're leaving." But you don't want to ruin the day for EVERYone, I know. Maybe you just can't teach people when they get that old, but you can limit your pain as much as possible.
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kathytj, I highly doubt a person with a narcissistic personality would have the insight to see how self-defeating their self created tornados are and could care less if they did. I think they develop these coping mechanisms from the dysfunctional families that they often come from themselves which is particularly true of people with borderline personality disorder.
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I meant to say could care less if their tornado defeated others.
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well there is no question my moms mother probably also had the same personality but she actually did my mom a favor and her two sisters a favor by leaving them with my grandpa and their grandmother. But what she got years later was such a wonderful thing-a husband who loved and provided for her-five great kids-a judge, a teacher, an executive and an editor for a small newspaper and oh me-the gypsy but a happy one. No divorces, no drug or alcholol problems, 9 great wonderful grandkids-a nurse, a chiropractor, a news reporter and the rest in college all doing good and oh no drugs or problems with the grandkids. So now at this point yu would think she should be so blessed and happy-NOT its all about her.
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Playagrandma, we surely are related. My brother married a school teacher, with a master's, his son, who was born so premature we weren't sure what he would turn out to be, graduated from a large and well known university. Works for a college in his home town. Me I married a professional guy with a degree, two girls are RNs with a bachelor's from a top 50 college and my oldest is Ivy League Educated Attorney in Boston, married to a wonderful man who is also a lawyer, no one ever did drugs or any trouble ever. She complains about something all of the time, just can't be happy. Didn't go to one single granduation of her grandkids, "just not able". Didn't attend her granddaughter's wedding, "just not able". This is a woman who has no illnesses, takes no meds. and never goes to a doctor. Still drives and does, every day to go shopping. This is all a pattern that these people take. It is called....All About Me.
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well my mother takes too many meds yet in general is very healthy for a woman her age. She refuses to listen to the dr or as a matter of fact anyone. As for the grandkids, I will just tell you about my two. She made sure she was at our daughters baptism, first commuion, dance recitals etc etc. Our son-forget it. You see I have a brother 14 years younger than me and she resented me having a son. The final straw for my son is when she didnt show when he graduated from chiropratic school and convinced my dad not to get yet turned around a flew to our daughters graduation from nurses school-which my father should not have attened as it was in july -in atlanta-way too hot and my dad had a heart conditon. Needless to say my son has 0 contact with her and I cant blame him
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playagrandma, Can you force yourself to stay away from her? Don't go over until she really needs you to help her with something. It is a crime what we allow mentally ill people do to us. Wastes so much valuable time when we can be around family and friends who validate us, appreciate us, love us.
Narcissists never change. They do not miraculously become the Mother you wished for! Some characteristics get worse, some disappear, but there will come a time when she will not be as combative or manipulative--as mine is at 94. Some, however, find a way to manipulate us all the way to the grave, and we are the only ones suffering.
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well I sure know they never change. I am not sure I can force myself to stay away. Only because she can make everyones life miserable if just one of us get out of line. As for right now, for the weekend-I refuse to answer my phone if she calls and will not be seeing in the near future. Not sure how long that thought will last. Its a struggle and all the family really think she will outlive all of us. I am sure she will outlive me.
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Grandma, the best way to deal with a dysfunctional parent is how you would deal with a neighbor's barking dog. First, put up a fence to keep it from trespassing and crapping on your property. This also keeps it from biting you. You might try being nice to it, but you choose how much energy to put into that before ignoring the dog becomes your best option. On the one hand, your mother built the bed you can now make her lie in. On the other hand, most dysfunctional people had their dysfunctions abused into them. Compassion for her is not unjustified, but martyrdom is. Give your mother the time, support and affection you can afford, and take control of how you react to how she reacts. Reward good behavior, ignore counterattack after protecting yourself. Find the tools to support yourself. Do your best and let that be good enough. Good Luck. God Bless You.
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