Can a financial institution require that my mother be present to validate the POA that she already signed?

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Can a financial institution require that my mother be present to validate the POA that she already signed?

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I went to one of my mother’s financial institutions to set up the POA with them and had a very strange experience. First the banker asked if she were deceased and I said no, you cannot use a POA if the person is deceased. She then said that my mother needed to be present. I said, no, the purpose of the POA was that she could no longer transact business on her own behalf and requiring her to be there would defeat the purpose. (The POA had been signed by both of us and notarized, and I had also presented the physician’s letter stating that the POA was necessary.) She insisted, and I said, fine, my mother will not know why she is here or understand what you are asking her or be able to respond coherently, and will likely be agitated and combative to the point of violence, but if that’s what you want to see, I can bring her. She stared at me for a few moments, then backed off of that “requirement," then refused my paperwork on the grounds that it was a copy and not the original. Now I already think something funny was going on because this was a senior banker at a very prestigious national trust institution, who should be well aware that POAs are not for dead people, and that they indicate that the person is incapacitated. But is that something that anyone else has ever heard of?

Elder Law Forms & Documents Power of Attorney (POA)

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Im pretty sure Chase bank has my picture in all their back rooms with a big red slash through it. I cannot begin to explain my hatred for this bank. Everytime they tell me I need somthing different and I bring the original they change the story. And yes I have dealt with managers. This has gone on for a year. My trust attorney has now created a 26 page form. There is nothing else they can ask me for. We paid a notary to come to my moms and witness/notarize her signature. I called to find out who I could make an appointment with that had the ability to handle this situation. They said oh you need to bring her in. I said fine she will most likely crap her pants while she is in your office. Or fall and I will sue you. All I need is to transfer money from one of her annuities to her checking so I can continue to pay her caregivers. I'm taking a break for several weeks. The emotional toll this is taking is so completely overwhelming.
I feel your pain. I understand the bank looking out for there customers. The banking industry is not how it used to be. You had the same banker for many years. They recognized you. Now its 20 yr olds who only work 30 hours so the bank doesn't have to give them benefits.
Boy this post really hit a nerve!
Did I mention I hate Chase bank?

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Mum had a similar situation when stepdad was in the hospital, one bank was reasonable, the other acted like yours Doggomom.

Luckily the Lawyer who prepared the documents and had given Mum notarized copies, which are just as valid as the original, was also a friend of step dad. He called the bank in question and read them the riot act. Told them in no uncertain terms that they were violating the law and unless Mum received an apology for their rudeness and the additional stress they put her under while her husband was dying, he would be reporting the bank and the individual employees to the banking regulator.

After that call, Mum received proper services from the bank. It should not have taken a call from a lawyer for the bank to behave.

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Yes! The documents I have are notarized, and I hope not to get the lawyer involved-because you’re right, it shouldn’t come to that-but I will if I need to. Thanks for sharing your experience.

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I asked my local banker (B of A) about a financial POA that they would recognize. I was told that this MUST be a POA that they set up, forms, notarization, etc. principal must be present, - basically it was their POA form, NOT a ordinary financial POA. She explained that the bank will honor their POA and no other (besides a court ordered transaction) because "how can we know that that POA has not been superseded and is now invalid? We honor our POA and thus we are protected from liability." They want, and you should want, that protection. Have you talked to mom's lawyer? Perhaps there is some way to handle this, since it would seem that your mom is no longer able to give POA.
In my case, the financial POA in question was one I wished to give my sister, in case I should be incapacitated in the future. I'm sure the bank has had to deal with this many times and you might ask a senior officer how this could be handled for everyone's safety.

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I did get the poa from boa and they still insisted every time I called them to have my father with me to verify. I understand they need to protect the elder but once you establish yourself as poa there shouldn’t be an issue

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We had some similar experiences with banks. Some are very good with dealing with these issues and abiding by the documents presented. Others make it difficult for you. One bank used by the deceased insisted that we give them the "original" copy of the deceased's trust. Since there is only one "original" with all the "original" signatures, to leave that document with one bank, not requested by any other, is stupid. Spouse/trustee finally moved all accounts to financial institutions that were more knowledgeable about trust and legal document requirements. Some of these clerks and "bankers" are just improvising, they have no real knowledge of what's required. On the other hand, some financial institutions require signature guarantees for everything, and others don't insist on that either. I think the offending institutions are just trying to make it hard to take money from them.

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I had a similar experience with a credit union but was able to gain the officer's sympathy -said mom was in rehab with a broken back and couldn't be transported

fact is, banks are subject to intense regulation and any thing sniffing of financial elder abuse is going to raise a flag - most folks working in a branch just don't have the background or authority to break the rules especially when it comes to Know Your Customer compliance

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Excellent reply.

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This sounds like my experience with Chase Bank. Wells Fargo Bank and Bank of America handled this exact situation with ease and with compassion. After four years, I am still working with Chase Bank to release money in a retail account. In my situation, I started asking for copies and examples of “exactly” what would be acceptable to Chase or whichever bank you are working with and that should cut down on a lot of wasted time.

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No, your mother does not have to be there. In fact, were she able to do her own banking work you likely wouldn't have to be serving as POA.
Yes, you must ABSOLUTELY have the originals with you. And never leave them out of your sight (for instance on a plane do not check them through).
A copy is NOT sufficient. Do also know that if this account is held in several names and if this is a trust account the POA will not be sufficient. When they question your POA be certain that you acknowledge that they are attempting to protect your Mother against nefarious actors. When I got POA and Trustee of Trust for my brother I was VERY scrutinized. They were acting in his interest. I am hoping you had this done with a Lawyer and all original papers are in order. Be certain to set up an appointment with the bank officer, not a regular teller.

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Maybe I wasn’t clear enough in my question. The original papers are not something I got off a website; they were prepared and executed by a lawyer, who holds the originals. I have no problem producing them if it is necessary, (no other entity I have done this with asked for them; they accepted copies or an email of the originals), I just came to doubt that after the conversation began on an adversarial tone. Also, I am not clear why you thought this was a teller; this was one of two senior bankers who were both present (I had made an appointment with the other one, who remained with her back to me, checking her email, while this was happening.)
I also never said anything about the account being held in trust or being held in several names. It is her name only with a TOD designated—which is me, alone. I understand and appreciate the extra scrutiny—as I said above in a further answer, I underwent that with every other entity I have dealt with, just no one else seemed to assume the worst and look for a way to deny it.

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BBS is correct; some banks, and even some branches, aren't familiar enough with estate planning documents to know how to handle them.

I do think though that a copy might not be adequate; the firm which I worked for and provided my sister and father's estate plans made "conformed copies". The original was either kept in their safe, or given to the family, but 2 - 3 or more "conformed copies" were also made for delivery to institutions if necessary.

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I guess I would schedule an appointment with this rude female and make sure that she is the person that you will be meeting with and then let mom make a mess out of her office. It would be fitting that her office smelled like her attitude.

There is not a lot of professionalism left in this world and the consumer gets to pay the price. I agree that they should protect the money that has been trusted to them, but they need to be polite and professional when explaining what their protocols are.

My dads bank sent the POA to their legal department and they confirmed with in 5 minutes that it met their requirements. Common sense approach. When in doubt, ask!

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This made me laugh a bit. Mom can get violent when agitated and likes to pull hair. I actually did think of how she’d grab a handful of this woman’s long highlighted hair and yank for all she was worth, hollering unintelligibly the whole time, Maybe then she’d be convinced that she could no longer handle her affairs.

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Used to work in a bank. They just loved quoting their bank rules at clients but actual knowledge of POA or law was often lacking - even at higher levels.

Can a financial institution require that my mother be present to validate the POA that she already signed?

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