What do I do with my borderline personality, Narcissistic mother?

Ceadmilifalte,
My heart goes out to you!!! You could be describing my Mom & our situation.
My Mom lived under our roof for 6 years. It was definitely a learning op... mind, emotion & soul-shattering gas-lighting was constant the whole time.

I knew she'd always been that, BUT...I knew pretty much why & how she got how she was [chronic, low-grade hypothyroid; familial mental issues & abuses; brain injuries from a number of concussions from abuses; alcohol & pill use...then finally, oncoming dementias--who knows? maybe she also is harboring some long-percolating variant of spongiform encephalitis???]

She had nowhere else she was willing to go; I'd promised relatives I'd take care of her, long ago; other siblings [being raised/indoctrinated by her...] all passively let her be moved in with us...hundreds of miles from any of them, THEN started saying stuff like, "Why did you move her w/you? She could have stayed with us..." [even though he'd said not, before, & made no effort to prevent the move; & Mom had said she couldn't tolerate living with them]; other sibs had their own ills/ailments/dysfunctions, so they 'let her' move with us--then started saying similar things as that one--likely based on things Mom told them in conversations via her phone.
ALL of them had larger homes, more income to afford Mom staying w/them than we did--but ALL of them had spent far more time under her roof growing up, & played her games adeptly.
Mom was -almost- polite [though highly manipulative] the 1st couple years, ramping up tricks the last 4, finally becoming physically abusive to me the last 2 yrs; divisively, permanently separating me from other siblings, destroying family relations using her tactics--they all pretty much stopped talking w/me at least 2 years prior to her move out, & more silent since she moved out.
Not holding breath here--totally unwilling to allow them to suck me back down their rabbit holes--it's taken a lifetime to learn how that game has been being played for almost 60 years.
ALL kids need/want loving, nurturing, safe family relations--but no amount of wishing can ever create them where they never really existed!
All we can do is find/treasure the remnants of any good memories, save/focus on those while protecting ourselves from people who would shatter us.

Notes:
==It's common for 1 child to be singled out from other siblings & treated badly/abused, when 1 or both parents & maybe also grandparents have behavior patterns like these, especially if there has been 1 or more divorce & money troubles [which are almost guaranteed].
==A targeted child will be conditioned to believe that if they only comply w/these parent's demands, if they just do everything perfectly, they too, will be loved & nurtured. Only it never works--they might get brief compliments, but the backwash is always negative & pervasive.
==The behaviors of the parent[s] will appear, on the surface, as sweet, innocent, loving, but there will be fine nuances that destroy those positives, almost immediately.
=="Gas-lighting" behaviors of disturbed parents are so clever/subtle, it is usually missed by most witnesses, allowing abusive nuances to occur in full view, making witnesses believe everything is fine--ramping up behind closed doors.
==NO amount of higher education/training a targeted person has, IF these behaviors existed all their life, will protect / exempt them from potentially feeling destroyed by, &/or physically sickened by, those behaviors directed at them by someone like that.
==Experts have largely denied, ignored, or otherwise been unhelpful, for those experiencing these issues; this has existed indefinitely, though improving the last 10 yrs or so--but if one never finds that information, or doesn't get it in terms they understand, they still are unhelped by any of the newer information percolating through the psychology fields--that includes most Doctors.

Our situation's fallout:
Our disabled adult child moved out [perhaps a good thing] to avoid Mom's behaviors, & never would return.
My spouse & I nearly ended in divorce. We nearly got evicted.
My spouse & I both lost our health in dire ways.
We had to buy a car to drive her around every few days--everything is a far commute from where we live, so shopping for just about anything requires about a 40 mile round-trip commute--or more [our debt load increased]--ALL directly due to Mom's behaviors.
She convinced sibs she'd gifted me large amounts of money & conversely, that I'd stolen huge amounts; denied I'd sent her money for many years to help them have enough to eat...yet, the "rent" she paid to help with her living expenses for more than 5 of her 6 yrs here, essentially, almost exactly, repaid that money--money she argued over, said she'd paid but didn't, guilted, moaned & complained before grudgingly handing it to me later & later each month.
She said I forced her to pay it, said I'd stolen it, said she paid it when she didn't....OY!...This is only superficial highlights, more pleasantly worded.

From what's been contributed on this site, it's glaringly clear these types of behaviors are pretty common.
It's common for kids/adults to feel enormously damaged, like nothing will ever heal--feeling far too shattered--can't find enough pieces of self to reassemble.

The take-aways:
This site has been VERY helpful in learning to identify behaviors for what they are, understand they are NOT the caregiver's fault, Learn that our elder's behaviors are just their own ways to deal with life--though terribly nonconstructive; find compassion & understanding for the trials & tribulations we go through--AND what our elder's have been through; find constructive help / advice to assist handling it better, etc.
I didn't stumble over this site until some months after Mom had maneuvered to get moved out of here. It has been a live-saver. It has taken EVERY scrap of counseling, time, hooking-up with others with experience, over the last 2+ years, to find enough pieces of shattered self to glue me back together enough to function.
With effort, counseling, & compassionate interaction with others who have walked this path, I believe those going through it can also find path to healing themselves, and become stronger than before.
It does require making choices that might be very different from ones we might have made before going through this, or from any made before to cope with those behaviors in others.
Even when it feels like there's no healing possible, there really IS.

==Get them OUT of your house, if they live under your roof.
==FIND a multiple resources to help them [instead of you] for rides, assists, home help aids, etc. to give yourself a break from them, to limit their access to you. Check with your local Area Agency on Aging--they have a huge scope of helps.
==COMMUNICATE only in writing--paper letters or e-mail, so there is a record they can re-read, to decrease misunderstanding of things said--for both parties [because once someone's been shattered like that, BOTH parties barely speak same language anymore, & misunderstandings escalate].
==SET LIMITS on all others' use of your time, energy, resources that are realistic for yourself [not necessarily for others!]
==You cannot change others, much less a dysfunctional parent.
Each person can only choose to change themselves; you can only go so far to help someone else change themselves--if they can't or won't, then stop throwing yourself against their 'brick wall'!
==You can choose to change yourself; by helping get yourself straightened out & functioning well, others must also change.
What that eventually looks like remains to be seen--sometimes others affected by your personal changes become better--sometimes it only means we view their behaviors from a more functional perspective; & sometimes they leave our lives to find others willing to play their games.

Healing CAN happen, even after being utterly shattered, repeatedly over a lifetime. What it looks like may take completely unexpected forms--we just didn't recognize them before the healing path commenced.

I pray you find that healing, soon!

Have been caring for my Bipolar, Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissistic mother for 2 years now. Ever since my Dad passed away. I told her once that she is either happy or mean, there is never any happy medium. She said "I know, I have always been that way"! At least she admitted it. I find that I have had to distance myself as much as I can. We put her in an Assisted Living to help with that, otherwise I was there everyday doing all of her housework and even cooking her meals on the weekends so she would have something to eat during the week. It is never enough - no matter what! Saying no is not a picnic and never will be - you just have to "steel" your self and do it. I still deal with feeling inadequate but at least when you finally say no - you feel your life slowly coming back. My heart goes out to you. This web site is wonderful for helping you know you are never alone! Best of luck and we are with you!

ElderlyandADHD I am so sorry but I do not understand why this woman is living with you and being allowed to be so rude to you and your children. Those kiddos are your first responsibility and this is a time when they need so much positive enforcement and support from their Mom.

ElderlyandADHD: If you can find the courage to do it, don't let your mom continue to rule your live, home and children. I realize that is easier said than done, but maybe you can think about alternatives. You say your mom is not senile, but in your profile you mention dementia. (At least I thought you did)

There is a thread on AC, "My mom is mean and hateful, etc. and the woman who started it is named Lisa, however she goes by Survived2, now. And she is a survivor. It's a long thread, but a fascinating read. She made changes, removed her mom from her home. She is an inspiration, as is her family. Life can get better. I hope you can make time to read that thread and see if you can find something in it to help you. Blessings.

My mother is horrible. She has always been mean, mean to me and controlling when I was small, always sarcastic and manipulative. I found out later that when i was litte I always thought my father was really mean because he always said "No" to whatever it was I wanted! Well, I came to learn how she manipulated him to say "No" to me, and threatened him if he said "yes" but came to me and said stuff.."you know I would, honey, but your father said "No" I cant help it",,, She also would get mad at me and throw my dollies and stuffed toys out the car window if i cried about something and say, do you want to stop crying and see another one of your babies go out the window??" My father died and I am only child, she moved in with me! Now, I put up with mean insults on a daily basis and she is now 92! Shes not senile, just mean..very mean...I would think that she/I could reconcile some of the stuff, but no, she keeps on going, along with insulting my teens...help!!!

It is interesting for me to read others experiences as I am going through a similiar situation with a abusive my entire life. Now she is almost 90 and seems to have dementia. It is hard to even speak on the phone to her as she claims to not recognize my voice and also says that i say I am her grandchild even though all I said was hello and that I was - my name.She must be at the beginning stages of this but it is so sad. She is used to controlling everything and everyone and I was her scapegoat forever.

Savannah, maintaining your Mom's preferred lifestyle is hardly the responsibility of you or your siblings. If she wants to live a certain way, then it is her responsibility to figure out how to do it on her own dime or to make the necessary changes - the passage of years makes change necessary for all of us. Just saying "no" is the best way to go here. You have no obligation beyond helping should she fall into destitution.

Cattails: My mother is 77. She has been sedentary most of her life and now she has osteoporosis. I know many women her age who are very active and are doing much better physically than she is. Seeing the difference in these women motivates me to stay active as I get older.

I used to think that having the yard to work in was good for her. She has a great eye for designing a landscape. and has always taken pride in having the nicest yard in the neighborhood. That has been her main hobby for as long as I can remember. Before my dad died, she always had him to help her with the really tough work, but now it is too much for her to do by herself. I just wish she would be willing to compromise a little and move to a smaller place, but she is not willing.

Savannah: How old is your mom? I'm 63 and my husband and I retired 8 years ago and moved to Washington state. We bought 10 acres and I had to laugh when you were talking about all the yard work. I know how that goes. On top of the land we now take care of, we brought my parents up to live in a separate house on our property 7 years ago. My mom passed in 2008 and my dad passed last month.

I can't imagine asking my son to come over and do the yard work. Of course my husband and I are here together and are able to do what needs to be done, but someday we will have to hire help or downsize and be free of the work. Right now, I tend to think it keeps us active and the environment is always a joy to us.

Sorry your mom is such a complainer. Don't let her put the burden on you.

Best wishes, Cattails.

savannah, and others - You only need to do what you decide to do. That is part of what setting boundaries is about. You don't have to call every day or listen to all her complaints, and negativity. Savannah, your mum sounds like a pretty typical narcissist. Nothing is ever good enough, and you will never do enough, even if you do all she demands. I am glad you don't feel guilty, even though she works that button.
You are doing what is reasonable, she is not. She is making her choices, and choices have consequences. I don't think normal, mentally healthy parents do what yours did/do. They make "sensible" decisions, and don't make impossible demands on their children. My sig other's parents moved off the farm to town when he (dad)needed a pacemaker. Now, many years later, they have just moved into an ALF, with a nursing home attached. It makes sense. Even my mother, who is narcissitic, and has BPD moved into an ALF a few years ago. Mind you, she couldn't get along with people there, so 6 months later moved again. I have POA and told her I would not move her again, as if she could not get along there, she must need a nursing home. She still complains, but I don't listen much and don't keep very close contact with her, because it is all complaining, and negativity. She is well looked after by others, though would have me do it all, even from a distance, but I can't and won't. My health has been affected by stress from her in the past.
To all, look after yourselves. If I got hit by a bus tomorrow, my mother would survive, and so would yours, if you were. ((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))) and pat yourselves on the back for doing a good job!

Why do some parents have to make things so hard? At the age of 60 (both parents), my parents made the decision to move to a high-maintenance home on over an acre of land. It is high maintenance not only because of the large size, but because of all the landscaping my mother chose to do, and also the home has high ceilings, a beautiful stained wood front door (that needs refinishing), etc. Since my dad died a few years ago, my mother has tried to make us (children and spouses) feel guilty for not constantly coming over to help her trim bushes, clean up the mess, cut her yard, paint, etc. I have told her that I would give her the money to pay someone to do the work (because we simply do not have the time).... but whenever she hires someone, the work is never good enough. She cuts the yard herself with a riding lawn mower.... her choice (because no one can do it perfectly like her). Every time she works in the yard, she talks about how she can't handle it, that it is too much for her (and it is). But she is not willing to hire anyone to do it. She wants us to do it (her family... for free, but she would let us know what we didn't do right).

I am willing to help my mother where needed. I drive her to most of the places she needs to go to.... doctor appointments, medical tests, mall shopping, etc, and help her when she is sick. We (children and spouses) go over to her house and do minor maintenance (change light bulbs & fix other minor problems that we can handle). When she is talking to me sometimes, she is almost in tears because she "needs someone to help her with all the yard maintenance". I have tried to get her to downsize and/or move into a retirement facility, but she WILL NOT do it. She is not willing to move into a smaller space. I feel like she made the choice to move to her high-maintenance home, and she has no one to blame but herself. But she is constantly nagging and complaining about the yardwork she has to do. I just reply with, "I will help you pay for it". But that is not what SHE wants. She wants us to do it. It is like she is not willing to do anything that makes it any easier for us to help her. She lives alone, and she won't even agree to have a life-alert type alarm system installed so that she can contact someone if she gets hurt and needs help. If we ever suggest anything helpful, she is always so negative and unwilling to agree to anything that would remotely help things be easier for all of us (including her). I have to call and check on her everyday, and listen to the same conversation, the same complaints, and the same negativity, day in and day out. Because she is unwilling to compromise in any way, then I refuse to feel guilty about it, even though she tries really hard to act like everything is all my fault and that nobody helps her.

teachergear1,

Exactly right in what you posted!!! And nicely succinct!
Wish I could have done that better with mine...it didn't work.
All the best training was for naught.
Only thing left, was do something to trigger other sibs to move her out of our home. It was traumatic, and the pain is still there.
Mom managed to destroy family connections so well, there is likely no repair.
So be it. They left, they cut me off, they choose to not communicate--
I finally let them--just quit trying to make things get better..let them.

You do what you must to survive--to save yourself.
THAT is what is appropriate, NOT letting the sick ones take you down with them.

{{{hugs!}}}

I do not think is it a DUTY to kill ourselves by giving MORE than we can. We have a right to our own lives. It will take you...body, mind and soul if you allow it to. Don't allow that!!! Set boundaries!! Tell her..I can do this and this today but that's IT. Then, tell her to ask SIBLINGS to do their part too! I've always been the one to care for mom, listen to her negativity and actually BRAGGING about my other sibling who has done nothing for her..not even a call on her birthday or Mother's Day or Christmas. I"M the one who has ALWAYS been there and I get no thank you..just more negativity. SET BOUNDARIES. I finally did that. Had to for my own health and sanity. I was suicidal and she didn't even care. BIG HUGS to you and hope you set those boundaries.

cmagnum,
Unless the profession is faster to progress than the medical profession, I wouldn't hold my breath that anything would change substantively.
But, as the comic once stated, "It Could Happen!"
There is so much good change needed, across the board.
But some things that influence how people are able to function, may never be recognized.

True, live situations in Axis 4 of the DSM IV do have some impact on mood disorders in Axis I where dementia, clinical depression, bipolar, etc. are and on personality disorders which are listed in Axis II. I am interested in seeing if there is any movement of diagnosis between Axis I and Axis II when the DSM V comes out in May of 2013.

cmagnum,

How much genetics, milieu or learned behaviors influence development of mental or personality disorders, is not written in stone.
There is much that science does not know; but we know far more than 50 or 60 years ago.
To blur it further, Epigenomics--science of how environmental things like famine, diet, chemical exposures, stress, etc., shows how milieu /environment actually changes how genes express themselves
...and, that the gene-switches are not simple "on-off" switches, but more like rheostats in how those function.
This means that when a Doc claims "nothing can be done, it's a genetic problem" may not be entirely true anymore.
For years, genes have been considered the one and only way biological traits could be passed down through generations of organisms. Not anymore.
Non-genetic variation acquired during the life of an organism can sometimes be passed on to offspring—a phenomenon known as epigenetic inheritance.

Yes, bipolar as we know it, has genetic parts;
however, even with things as we know them so far, if a person is in an optimal environment, they might have a better chance to have a milder manifestation, and better ability to cope with life.

Personality disorders, as described below, ALSO has some genetic connections, which also can be modified according to environment.

How much is genetic, and how much is milieu, is still a matter of argument and study. This may have something to do with why it is so hard to create meds that consistently work decently, for a long period of time; it is common for meds to stop working after some months, or, for the right person, might work decently for years.
There is also plenty of science that supports using nutritional approaches for relieving mental disorders, even those we thought were genetic.
One such is simply adding large amounts of Vit. D3, according to blood levels tested, to get levels above 50, which often relieves depression [and guards against many other illnesses].

Just lots yet to learn about how things work.

Excerpts:
Personality Disorders:
"Despite difficulties in defining personality disorder, it appears many types of personality disorder, in particular schizotypal personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder/criminality, are also influenced genetically.
The genetic transmission of normal personality traits and disorder is most easily explained by the contribution of multiple genes of small effect rather than by single-gene inheritance. Recent advances in molecular genetics have led to the localization of genes of minor effect for some traits. This raises the possibility of detecting a molecular basis of traits and disorders such as personality and personality disorder."

Bipolar:
"The extreme mood swings of bipolar disorder have long been treated by medication management. Though the cause of the disorder is not known, scientists now believe that it is the combined result of many factors. There are many environmental influences that impact the progression of the disease. Understanding these influences empowers the patient as well as the medical provider to make choices that maximize positive treatment results...."

Peace in the heart is sometimes a challenge to come by.
But striving for that, good even so.

Chimonger, please don't list bipolar with those personality disorders that you listed for it is a physical brain disease and not a social psychological disease like personality disorders. Sometimes, bipolar is misdiagnosed as borderline and visa versa, but it is not the same thing. Bipolar disorder is inherited via genetics and not something passed down by environment.

teachergear1
Sorry--I had written a great response for you, but the computer lost it in a blink!
Guess that is the universe telling me to do a better job of it!

Your Mom was abused, in some way, whether it is clear to you or not.
Being hte last of 9 kids? YA. That's a guarantee for things to go haywire, by itself.
But she didn't get how she is out of nowhere.

People can be badly programmed [early childhood development], by parents unable to do their best, since they do not know how, either, and get poor assistance.
IF there is any shade of mental illness, that badly complicates things.
Mental illness was a hush-hush thing then--it was ignored, coped [badly] with, and kept quiet for generations--IF it got referred to at all, it might be called "her moods", or "he was always strange", for instance.
My Gma wrung her hands, worrying who would take care of her daughter, when she was gone.

How we get programmed in early childhood, is rarely perfectly laid foundation stones--usually, there is some amount of crooked foundations laid, and it effects how we learn everything else for life.....it's kinda like "DOS" in PC's--they have to have a basic DOS system, for everything else to work on.
Bad DOS = unstable everything else that comes after it.

YOU? Me? HA! Yes, we were programmed poorly.
Our parents failed to put down good foundations for us, and we either become bullies, taking advantage of others who aren't, or we become "codependent"--those who strive to make things go nice, but in the process, we end up getting hurt, repeatedly. And not knowing quite what got us to that point. We see ourselves as wounded caring altruistic people--big hearts.
We get into repeated relationships with similar characteristics.
Go out of our way to help others, yet, cannot seem to get the care we need from others--not reliably.

Our dysfunctional parents are not likely to change themselves; only we can change our own selves. It is a wonder your Mom could tell you why she did as she did...not all of them can--most simply refuse to acknowledge it.

My Mom managed to do a few very wonderful things in my childhood--
I treasure those memories--but her being here for years, nearly destroyed any memory of those in the process of her grinding, merciless destruction of my relations with my sibs--she did it.
She couldn't help how she was--her chemistry was badly tweaked, and, she was abused as a child, and was mentally ill--her mom and aunts knew it,but it was never spoken of---just worried about.

I knew Mom was different, even as a little kid, and there was nothing to forgive--things just were as they were--make the best of it.
But I had to leave as a young teen--and mostly kept distant, to protect myself, and to protect my kids from her behaviors..
'Even so, they seem to have been also infected with some bits of those behaviors. I only pray they can manage to use them for good, and not for bad.
I keep myself some distant, too, fearing to influence my grandkids even remotely--I fear that somehow, it might come thru me to them, too.
There is nothing I would love to do more, than to be a cohesive family and be hands-on Gma...I just cannot do it.
One dau. is still angry, percolating under the calm facade; something in her very much fears my being anywhere near her for very long. She got into trouble as a teen, and has not healed fro that fully, either. And, she was abused by a strange person as a toddler, too.
IT is a miracle she turned out as wonderful as she managed--she did such hard work to get back on track!

I do not have a mean bone in me either.
Never hit, avoided arguments.
Didn't even like debates.
Tried to stick with reason, logic.
Yet, by some perverse osmosis, things percolate thru generations, unguided.

But this is how things go from one generation to next ones.
Good people behaving badly.
This is why we need proactive measures, like those creche programs in Denmark, to reverse those behaviors for a few generations, to break that bad programming.
AND, we need to seriously pay attention to what all the chemicals, GMO foods, and etc. stressors, are doing to our minds--and stop that damage, too.

Long ago, scientists studied dense populations minutely, to see what happens to those crammed together too tightly....they KNEW whether it was rats, dogs, people--any creature---densely populated, would start killing each other off, bullying, tramping on people, destroying dreams and goals---very competitive--they knew this long ago, yet, nothing has been done to remedy that condition from happening.
We are assisting our best and brightest to be destroyed--in wars, by all levels of bullying--heck, even those tho have been bullied, can bully, and never even know they are doing it. Those who preach against bullying, do it, in moments of their overwhelm with their own personal circumstances they lash out.
It is destroying us.

Just know, that there are abusers and those who help them stay that way.
Kinda Co-dependent.
We not exactly allow them to be that way, but, because of how we were programmed as children, we are positioned to do so.
As long as the abusers keep getting away with it, based on how we allow them to do it, letting fear run us, and misguided guilt and other things, it keeps happening.

We were programmed to NOT see the train coming about to hit us.
AND, since each train is different in appearance,
we fail to see subsequent ones coming too
....making repeated abusive relationships happen so easily--it is certainly NOT what we are trying to do! .

We need help to learn how to see those signals.
Abusers ALWAYS give signals--some overt, some not so clear.

Counseling helps--if the 1st one fails to help enuf fast enuf, find another.
Seek help online about PTSD, depression, mind-control..
Find a counselor who can help you process that using EMDR.
EMDR has been shown to be most effective in processing old stuff, to at least reduce the triggers , so we can find better lives for ourselves.

Sit quietly with yourself, and think: what is Love, to me?
What does it look like?
What do any of the Good Books tell us Love is?
Above all, real Love is unconditional, heals, cares, has compassion.
What else does it mean for you, personally?

Whatever it is, it is opposite to fear.
Fear thinks it is strong, but it is not--it is wimpy in the face of love.

There are only 2 basic emotions--love, and fear.
EVERYTHing else is based upon those two.
Negative emotions are based on fear.
Positive emotions are based on Love.
Love conquers all, it is said.

Depression and anxiety build feelings of self-loathing, guit, and it becomes a creature chasing it's tale. Any of us who have felt beaten to the point of wishing to die, in any form, need help.
We need to find people around us who care for us, even if our families couldn't.
Build those around you like your armament, and get help to learn better coping skills.....sometimes it takes some time--but it is worth doing.
Since you are still here, there is still work for you to do.
MAYBE it has something to do with learning better coping skills.
IF your kids see you coping better, maybe they will too.

You may need to cut connections with those who insist on being abusive.
I had to--They left me, I let them go.
Every time I think I feel compelled to return --beg to return--to their fold,
I have to "STOP!" And think how things have been, repeatedly
--and let them go.
I feel too fragile to allow any of that in my life now.

You might need to do some of that too.
But it is something only you can decide, and it must be based on learning better coping skills--and better ways to identify behaviors of those who cannot help themselves from doing us harm, so we can avoid them doing that to us repeatedly.

Love is kind.
Love is NOT a martyr.
People in most places do not know what a real martyr is.
Allowing others to destroy us, is not being a martyr, unless it serves a far greater purpose to the many.
Doing it for one or a few, is just letting them perpetrate bad behavior indefinitely.

There are loads of resources online, and in libraries, to learn more about abusive relationships and how to recognize them, how to heal from them, too.

The world will not end if you stop visiting Mom at the NH, to stop her from giving you more abuse.
Your guilt is not your own--they have a deft way of making their guilt, ours.

{{{hugs!}}}
I pray you find these, and fast!!

Chimonger---you are so right in that it is directly related to how they grew up for MOST...but my mother was not abused as a child. She was born in 1936..one of twins (boy and girl)..they were the last of 9 chldren and the babies. So, they were "babied" as the others were many years older and out of the house when they were born. I believe mom was taught at a very young age that she was a "Princess" and she believed it then and now..no matter how mean, cruel, torturous she was to my sister and I. I once asked her when she was living with me several years ago as she was being hateful to me while I was caring for her...I asked, "WHY did you abuse my sister and me as children and NOT the boys?".. Her answer" That's how you get kids to do what you want them to do". I told her that I NEVER once laid a hand of my only child..not ONCE.. But then, he didn't turn out so well as HE is very abusive to me and his kids. One of my grandchildren finally ran away from him to live with her real mother. She tried to run away from him for years (as I had tried to run away from my son's father for years) only to hear the words, "I'll put a bullet in your mom 's head if you run to her". Statements like that make the victim afraid for the ONE they do love so, they stay in an abusive environment for years. My son's father was abusive..VERY! I am the opposite...not a mean bone in me. Maybe that's why I have PTSD and Panic Disorder because I didn't fight back until NOW. Police advised me to get a PFA on my only child a year ago after they read the most recent hate mails from him and his wife. He stared his abusive behavior when he was 14 and it just got worse each year as I never "stood up to him". He's 37 now and as EVIL as they come. His dad and stepmom have had nothing to do with him for several years now either. I LOVED reading about the program in Denmark and it doesn't surprise me one bit that the U.S. abandoned such a program that would SAVE our society. America values SPORTS above everything else. Sports players get paid millions of dollars and teachers, psych workers, counselors, ..those who are desperately trying to save society get paid bird feed and STILL continue their work as it is NOT for the money. I gave up on the human species years ago..20 to be exact. I treasure my time at home living with only my animals since then. It's just so sad the America IDOLIZES SPORTS which is entertainment....and disregards the fact that human action and behavior continues to worses as each day goes by. Bullying.....causes so many teen suicides, yet it continues. Those same kids that bullied in school grow up to bully as adults. I've lived that nightmare my entire life and am STILL dealing with several right now. Numerous times, I've thought of suicide..over the last 40 years. I never did it. I'm still here for a reason. I take care of mom at the NH and am the ONLY sibling to do so.. The others have nothing to do with her EVER. I wonder why I feel obligated to do so when she was so abusive to me as a child, teen and adult. Wish there was a study on that somewhere. THANK you for sharing the Denmark study.

It is amazing how many people have been thru this wringer,
parent[s] with bipolar/borderline/split personality/narcissistic, etc. abusive.

It is directly related to how they were treated as children.
And the beat goes on.

How much are next generations able to stop the behaviors from repeating to next generations, is a crap-shoot, when nothing truly proactive gets done to stop it.

At least now, we have far better understanding of what causes it,
LOADS more options for counseling and treatment,
and supports like this group and so many others!

IF our society fails to turn the epic tide of repeated abusive behaviors,
society is destined to keep repeating the terrible situations.

Recently, I learned that in [[Denmark?]],
a program was started, in which a nurse or social worker was assigned to each home with a newborn, to make weekly visits to the homes, until the child reached age 5, helping the parents cope and learn better coping skills.

Results? Astonishing.
That intervention alone, cut rates of child abuse by 100%,
and spousal abuse was cut by something like 95%.
Evidently, something like that was tried in the USA,
but because it was too costly, it was cut.

NEVER MIND the far-reaching effects of that in reducing medical, psych, work related, etc. far reaching good it did
--the officials over-seeing the programs, cut them, to save budget money up front.
Cutting those programs cost society so much,
so far-reaching are the costs, it is heartbreaking.

Just think, a single program like that, could turn society around entirely, in only about 30 years time, stopping almost all child and spouse abuse.
Just doing it for 30 years, for all children/families for the 1st 5 years of life,
could possibly almost get rid of abuse entirely, nearly for good and all.

THAT would be miraculous, so drastically could it reduce so many expensive consequences that are the fallout of abuse.

oh yes....narc and borderline personality, Bipolar and abusive(physcially and emotionally)...that has been my mom since I can first remember, which is 2nd grade. Although, we didn't know back then what was wrong with her..just knew to do exactly what she demanded every single day...and it was ALL WORK. HER work..not 2nd grader's work after getting home from school each day. There is NO changing those types of people. They will never, ever, EVER see that "they' have a problem. The problem is always blamed on the person who HELPS them. There was and still isn't ever a simple "Thank you". I've colored mom's hair for over 25 years, cut and styled it. NOBODY else has. Every single time after I've spent 2 hours on the hair with her complaining EVERY single second...negativity thrives with them....I show her the mirror and ask, "How does it look?". Her responses have either been 1. It'll do I guess, 2. I don't like it!, 3. You need to REDO it, or 4. Just walks away without a word. Yet, I STILL do her hair AND buy her all of her clothes, shoes, take her on outings, etc. She is constantly negative as she has been her entire life. It takes a HUGE toll on me just to be around her for 10 min. She DRAINS the positive energy out of me (since 2nd grade) like a leech and I can hardly wait to get away from her or to take her back to the NH. I'm almost 55 now and don't feel so guilty for not going to see her/check on her/clean her up every few days at the NH. It's THEIR job...they get paid over 5K a month for it..even if they do neglect her. When she lived with me, I never got anything but criticism, put down, constant argued with, her trying to hit me again (was abusive mother to us girls but LOVED the boys who never had to work after school and had friends and got to "play". Sigh. Felt good to vent. YES...they USE you up. Set boundaries and stick to them. YOU are in control..just keep telling yourself that. I know it's extremely hard to do so but is imperative you do to keep your sanity. HUGS.

biblioscribe: One of the rarest responses I see from children raised by a Narcissistic/Borderline Parent is the willingness of the child to go to No Contact. My hat goes off to you. Yes, you have a preoccupation with your mother, that's the result of having a NM or BPM. The guilt and need never ends for the child. The abuse is huge, but the child stays, always hoping that she will get that little bit of love. Others can see the folly and abuse, but the child is caught up in it and can't let go. Here's my wish for you: Get out and stay out. Get some counseling and focus on a family that has a future. I recommend you read the books Cmagnum told you about. Move forward in your life, get help and love those who can take it in and return it. Hugs, Cattails

biblioscribe, sometimes the only way to cope is by going no contact which is very underdstandable in your situation. Your mom sounds somewhat like my mother in law who was born in the 1930's also. My wife has been told by therapists to make sure that she never lives in the same town nor any nearer than a 3 hour drive away. Are you getting the support of a therapist while you are doing all of this? I would recommend it if not. It took several years of therapy for my wife to get her freedom from her mom after using me to fight her battles with her mom. Once she got her freedom, it sure made a difference in our marriage. She would say the same thing about me and my mom which is true. I wish you well in your journey to freedom. There is a very good book Understanding the Borderline Mother and another one Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds and Build Trust,Boundaries,and Self-Esteem.

My mother is very much like those listed here. One problem I don't see anyone else have is that she's also a drunkard. I feel very guilty because all of you are finding ways to cope and I just went No Contact. I feel she has betrayed me my entire life (abandoned me for the first five years, thank God), stole money from me leaving me homeless and not only allowed me to be abused but brutalized me herself, including when I was pregnant with my first child. She projects all the time so of course since I'm a reflection of herself, she tells the whole family I'm a crook or a whore. She's wealthy so I figure she can afford to buy someone's help but I still feel guilty. My husband actually can't understand why I let her get away with so much abuse all these years but he has trouble (understandably) dealing with my preoccupation with my mother even though I won't speak with her anymore. It's awful and I agree with all the others about the generational aspect because when I was working with these horrible women born in the 1930s, they were the meanest workplace bullies and backstabbers you could find.

wow. sounds like you are writing about my mother.i too, am struggling with what i am somewhat duty bound to do. but if a parent is really toxic and terrible, just must get them out of your life, duty is not relevant if they are destroying you..i have always loved my mother deeply but she has been so toxic sometimes that i have cut off communications twice, and negotiated with her therapist in order to renew contact with her...moved 2000 miles away to escape. i am once again bending over backwards for her at the end of her life....but must lay boundaries so i dont get totally undone by my buttons all being pushed or acting like a martyr for her.

Wow, I have it made compared to CallMeIshmael. We're all
individual and handle things differently, you've done so many things for your G.M., it's sad she doesn't remember them.
My husb doesn't remember when his 3 children were little. He was involved in an electrical accident, had to have his left arm amputated and I think with all the narcotics and x-rays, did something to his brain, the same with Moms condition. She was in surgery for a bladder cancer tumor removal the size of a grapefruit removed.
She's had three types of cancer and survived all, but his dementia thing is litteraly making me crazy. I want to call her but don't know which "mom" I would be speaking to and if she starts berating and cussing I'll hang up on her.
The drs have told me not to feel guilty over this, it isn't anything I caused or can fix.
I read somehwere that it's called
"The Slow Goodbye" and that hits home.
Thanks again for listening,
maure

GAH!

Narcissistic and demented folks live in the world of negative and entitlement. Having an elder like that who is 105 - - well, that is quite a load to bear!

Hi Shirl,

I like the Demented Island fantasy.

I live with and take care of my 105 yo grandmother and her brain is definitely wired with "reverse polarity". Almost all of her endlessly hamster-wheeling thoughts are ugly, evil and accusatory.

One day I couldn't take it any more and I said, "Grandma, at your stage in life, don't you think it would be better to think about some of the NICE things that have happened to you?"

Her response was, "Like what?'

LIKE WHAT???

Well, how about this: she used to watch Chef Jean-Pierre on PBS every Saturday morning and then on her 95th birthday, SURPRISE!, my mother had rented a van and we all drove to Fort Lauderdale to have dinner at Chef Jean-Pierre's Left Bank restaurant where he personally came over to wish her Happy Birthday.

Or the many trips my mother took her on to Burt Reynold's Dinner Theatre in Jupiter, or one in Boca, etc etc. Even a trip to Broadway to see 42nd Street with Jerry Orbach tap dancing 20 feet in front of us.

But nooooo, she would rather think about the time her sister ate an orange and didn't offer her one. Or make up lies about our neighbors. Or me. Or my sister. Or even my wonderful (RIP) mother. Arrrgh.

I want to call her and say "hi" but husb advises against it
as did nurses. However she called the other day and asked him
whats wrong with Maure? he said, o h she doesnt feel good, fibro and cold, she kinda hmmfhphd