What do I do with my borderline personality, Narcissistic mother?

All your answers are so helpful it's like you are reading my mail!!

My mother has borderline personality disorder and became more difficult, paranoid and eventually suicidal as vascular dementia set in. She was hospitalized at one point and after evaluation they recommended community psychiatric care - which in her case were visits but could also be appointments at a clinic.She was given an antipsychotic but stopped taking it. Eventually she was voluntarily admitted to a geratric psychiatric hospital as she was having psychotic episodes. They would have sent her there invountarily if she had not agreed to go, Things started to happen once mental health professionals were involved.

How does one rationally go about doing THAT?

Are there "senior behavioral clinics" near where mom lives? I'm told that they can do wonders at titrating psychiatric meds to get aggressive patients under control. Otherwise, I think you need to consider an inpatient psychiatric evaluation, whether voluntary or otherwise.

Sounds like this "violently aggressive" behavior might need medical evaluation. There may be more going on here than just her mental health problem of borderline personality disorder.

From my own experience, boundaries really don't mean much of there are not also some concrete consequences for when they are broken. They're meant for our protection, but not so much for their behavioral modification.

I see that you say you're a counselor. However, from what I've read it is strongly encouraged for anyone in a relationship with someone who has BPD to get themselves into therapy. I'm not really sure that a therapist can function objectively as their own family therapist. That's my opinion anyhow.

I do hope you have medical and durable POA for this is spiraling out of control.

Best to you and do please in keep in touch.


She sounds out of control and could possibly get herself into legal trouble not to mention also get kicked our of her second assisted living.

Have you consulted an elder care attorney? Do you have medical POA? What does her doctor say? Sounds like she would benefit from some anti anxiety meds!!

I am a used up daughter of an 83 Year old borderline. I am also an LMHC. Yes, a counselor. Try as I might, boundaries help little. I have her in the 2nd assisted living facility, both extremely nice. The 2nd, because she showed herself to the point of being violently aggressive towards staff and others that I had to move her. She is in her 2nd month and has managed to ruin the 2nd assisted living facility. She flung the administrators phone into the wall. I need legal answers as to what my options might be from here. I do not know what to do and am so worn out. I am an only child. No one to help.

It got so bad that I went to an elder care attorney to see what I could do. She told me that I can have the courts give my mother a guardian for her behalf,then I was no longer responsible for taking care of her. This could be expensive.

I never thought of putting a name to the awful treatment I have received from my Mother through the years. As a young woman I sensed she was jealous of me and always critical no matter how much I tried to please her. Eventually I realized how controlling and manipulative she is and have quit jumping at her every demand. She is 85 years old and now lives next to me. Both my siblings have passed away and there are grandchildren who visit from time to time yet the day to day things are left to me. I have a house keeper that comes a few hours each day. This gives me some extra time yet, I still do her shopping and meal preparations. She has some Dementia so I know it's a matter of time till I will move her to an assisted living facility. I dread this confrontation with her. Mom is totally defiant about anything she does not want to do. I experience times of frustration then remember my own strengths and am able to stand firm. Another thing I experience is having friends tell me "oh you just need to be patient, she is scared and afraid since she is losing her independence." I tell those friends closets to me "you don't know the same woman I know.' These post are so helpful and reaffirm what I knew but did not have a name or condition for my Mother's behavior. Thank You so much.

Hi Ms. Boy, I sure don't blame you for your feelings. Just today I took a walk and talked to myself to try to get into the holiday mood. I'd like to be with Mom but like you her behavior drives me away. If I were you I'd plan a fun time with your husband for part of the day and give limited hours to your mother. Or visit her by yourself just for an hour. Bring her something and then leave when you need to.
Let her see YOU are in charge of YOUR time and that you have feelings and a life.
I think that helps a bit. I was very whimpy and submissive for many years and finally changed MY behavior. I still don't have warm and fuzzy feelings but I am accepting that I never will again for her. Hard to hash it out.
If you really feel abused by her, just call her and don't go there, but maybe tell her why? Not sure. Consider what will be best for you.

I am presently experiencing this with my mom and I am so glad I came across this forum. I did not know there is a diagnosis for what my mom is putting me through. After surviving a brain bleed that was clipped in 2001 and my sister and I telling the doctors she had a lot of life left in her, they listened and saved her life. Since then, my father, passed, my sister (who I shared the care taking with) died of a brain tumor, I am the sole relative care taker. Mom does have a friend/caretaker 5 days a week. I travel 1.5 hrs. every other weekend to participate in her care. I have been bullied, battered and hurt for all these years. My mind is trying to rationalize that my mom who lost a daughter should be grateful that her sole heir is here at her side. Nope, that's not the way a narcissistic person thinks. Now I know that, but this past weekend I was accused of not having her best interest regarding her financial matters. (I have been handling this for 13 years) To make a long story short, I am a no good daughter and she dislikes my husband. She treats him like a piece of garbage. So this weekend after she told me I could leave, I did and declared " I am done". I have not called her for the past 5 days, and feel free. However, the dam holidays are here. What to do?? I really feel free!! Ashamed to say I don't want to spend them with her and that means she would be alone. Talk about guilt!!!

HA!
Old? yes.
Wise? ...well, maybe...sometimes...when this type person is not acting out and being a behavior problem!
Mom keeps believing she has wisdom to impart that none of us has ever heard before...has been trying to write a book about it for decades.

Keep in mind, some low-grade dementia issues can also have elders doing things like G'ma did [who never showed mental issues before]: she asked me several times, over the course of several years, if there were things of hers I'd love to have when she was ready to give them up.
I avoided saying anything, or asking to get anything--
--always had avoided asking for anything unless unavoidable--because it had ALWAYS been a trap.
When I final got cornered yet again with same question, I told her the matched set of living room chairs, OR her big dresser, that I'd really love to have.
Didn't ask for both.
She spun around and with a snarl, said "YOU are sure acquisitive!!!" "Your Brother has been so sweet, never asked for anything!!!"
I was dumb-founded!
Mom, OTH, has always had a pattern of giving something to one of us kids, then later taking it back, because, she says, "you aren't appreciating it enough; besides, I gave it to you--it's still mine--it was only on loan".

The trouble with aging and these kinds of behaviors, is:
Those behaviors developed in the person as a coping system--a bad way of coping with bad situations in childhood.
As they age and lose more of their autonomy (ability to do things for themselves), they act out WORSE, because of that---like a hearing-impaired elder turning up the volume on the TV, these people turn up the volume, so-to-speak, on their dysfunctional coping mechanisms....making their lives, and everyone who cares for them, that much harder.

Part of Mom's package is, she sometimes gets really depressed, and threatens suicide, or her imminent death from all her struggles.
But at 86 and counting--it doesn't look like any of those portents she's dished out for decades, has yet caught up with her.
The mystery is, how on earth has she lived this long, after taking such poor care of herself for most of her life?! HOW does she keep sucking us back into her web, when each of her kids KNOWS what a nut-case she has been all her life?
So sweet, butter wouldn't melt in her mouth--yet, if she gets one alone, it's hell-to-pay.

It's helpful to have others who know what we're talking about---because, dealing with these mental issues, can be crazy-making--one can start doubting whats real and true, as the elder with these complexes starts trying to re-invent history, your life, their life, the world. Any of us taking care of someone like this, needs at least one reliable person in our lives, to help bring us back from the cliff's edge, back to rational thinking.

Oh--and getting them diagnosed, in old age? Good Luck!
If they've skated thru life without getting diagnosed--had people helping them along, etc., Docs will not diagnose mental issues unless multiple family and or other professionals stick together to get that accomplished....
OR, once they've been put in a facility, and staff notes that the elder is having issues needing medicated.
But during home care? Not so much.

Never a dull moment...I can only hope to have a fraction of Mom's determination to keep living!
It's really important to have people in your lives to help keep you in a rational-thinking mode--avoid letting the Borderline Personality/Narcissist reinvent you---it can easily destroy a lone-caregiver, given half a chance.
AgingCare.com has been a life-saver/sanity saver for me--just knowing there are people out there who understand, have experienced it, helped hugely.

Caregivers need to stick together, or we might drown alone!

You might consider the following as a light at the end of the tunnel. Mom's BP/Narcissim/and BPD has finally taken a turn to the humorous. My husband and I have been married for almost 35 years now. We have been together 37 years. She now tells everyone she meets and the all the people at the Assist. Living Facility that I am cheating on my husband with one of the residents. A man that is 89 years old ( I am 56 and happily married)! Have not been able to convince her of anything else! Now she has begun telling everyone I pregnant! It does get frustrating being with her as this is all she can talk about! How unfaithful I am and that now I am pregnant with another man's child! It is very comical after many years of it it not being the least bit funny. She was always mean and demeaning! So if this gives any of you a light at the end of that very long tunnel - I am glad to have helped! Bless you all - it really does get better. Best wishes.

This is so my mother with the dual borderline narcissistic behaviors!! Thanks for this site it truly is a Godsend!!!

The website thenarcissisticlife is wonderful. Just wanted to share it with everyone. Best- sandiw50

Hi MovingUp. Does your mother have a pattern of finding someone an angel or rescuer and then finding fault with them, and then repeat the pattern with a new angel? If she does, you can become the demon but when she finds someone else to pester, you get a break!

PS: I ain't there yet either!! I pray a lot! I curse a lot!

Yep, that's the Borderline and Narc behavior! I am going to a counselor to check out my suspicions and she confirms it every time I tell her my mother's latest antics.
The person cannot understand that other people really can be different from themselves and to them people that are close to them (husbands, boyfriends, daughters, etc) all exist as her extension of herself or exist to validate her own thoughts: constantly!! You can't win, can't have a separate opinion, set a boundary (that's the worse thing for them.) So you must develop a behavior around them that works for you without becoming like them. That's a challenge.
Nurture yourself, set the boundaries no matter what they do, protect yourself, and try to accept them as nuts. One day, you'll forgive them and have peace.

This site certainly is an education. I used to think there must be some wise old people, people who benefited from their years of experience and passed on their wisdom. It is a sort of attractive cultural fantasy and at one point I thought most people ended up as wise old people. Now that seems very naive.

I was hoping my mother would improve with age. She did seem somewhat more pleasant in her early eighties. After all, as one approaches death, one wants to put one's life in order, I thought. Now I realize she was always angling to get me to move in as an unpaid so-called caregiver. But I always had a gut suspicion that she would turn nasty and my life would be miserable.

I don't know if she has dementia. As far as I know, she has never been tested and I wouldn't be told the results even if she was. All these people who know their parent's diagnosis - how do they know?

My mother does seem to be getting more forgetful and to be reverting to her old narcissistic self. She seems to be constantly jealous of me and comparing herself to me. I can't make the most trivial purchase for myself without her announcing that she needs that as well, even something she would never use. So I've taken to slipping small purchases into the house without telling her. It makes me feel like a furtive teenager and I resent being made to feel that way. She is jealous of my relatively good health and constantly trying to undermine my health routines. She has this notion that everything on the table should be eaten so nothing has to be put away and is constantly pressuring me to eat whatever is left over, whether I am hungry or not. I tell her I'm not the family garbage can and she thinks that is very funny. I make it clear that it is not funny and I am trying to control my weight. She might knock it off for a week or two and then we are back to the same old crap.

She doesn't seem to understand that I am a different person. She won't go out after dark which may make sense for her but she thinks I shouldn't go out after dark either. She doesn't wash her hair, so I can't wash my hair without a lot of complaining and lecturing on how expensive hot water is.

All this and I am only visiting. Living with her for only a few weeks is demoralizing, exhausting, boring, horribly depressing. Everything is a battle, even brushing my teeth. She claims she is lonely but her chief entertainment is making me feel lousy.

jsomebody, thank you. Your advice is so good. It is giving me courage to do what I need to do, Not feeling guilty about detaching for my own sanity.

Oops. Excuse my typos.

Example of Borderline-Narc: my 93 Mom, also adorable to outsiders and vicious to me. She's moving to a indep senior apt: although she should have waited and been applying to Assisted Living, but no one but she can decide and act, so whatever! Anyways, she asked me if I what paintings I wanted of hers. She had made 4 of me and honestly I didn't like them, but I loved the Indian she made. She said she was hurt I chose the painting of the Indian and didn't "care about all the other things "that mattered to her. I reminded her that I live in a small one bedroom with my own taste and my own art and had to be choosy.

So next thing I know she has contacted a furniture store, took photos of the paintings she things are valuable, including the ones of me and the Indian, sent it to me without any text. I called her and asked her why she is selling the one painting I like.
"I know you wanted it." She said defiantly."I'm watching a movie now and don't want to talk."

One of many examples of her "adorable, sweet" behavior!!

Don't let it happen, blessed. Look after you. There is great cardiac care these days. The stress of coping with a BPD narcissist is very hard on your health. Mother's growing paranoia last winter was very hard on me and triggered flask backs - PTSD. I have one sister who has a personality disorder too, Finally in Feb mother was hospitalised due to the paranoia and being suicidal. I have reserved the right to go no contact if it is too hard on my health. I have POA, medical and financial, and have told the hospital staff that I will help - at arm's length - as long as it is not too stressful for me. A psychologist, Pauline Boss, wrote in one of her books that those who have been abused as a child, should not do hands on caregiving for the abuser, She said be humane to your parent but cause yourself no further harm. Of course, with a parent with these problems the abuse continues throughout life. My father died at age 81. I suspect the stress of living with mother contributed. He developed vascular dementia. She raged and rage as he grew less capable of coping with life. It was a relief when he went into a facility. (((((hugs)))) You will find lots of support on this web site.

Oh emjo thanks. HUGS to you!! I think my Mother will outlive me. I am an only child. She is in excellent health, still lives in her own home and drives!! I have noticed her becoming paranoid too and she is starting to get confused. Me, I just had heart bypass surgery, just like my Dad who passed at 79. I still miss him. He took the pressure off me but I think he took it to heart too.

blessed - (((((hugs)))) It is hard. Mine is 102 and physically well, though has developed vascular dementia and paranoia. It doesn't get easier and no end in sight.

My Borderline Narcissistic mother will be 92 this year. I can't tell you how helpful it is to read my life in other peoples stories. Thank you so much for sharing.

Chimonger - Mom has a fabulous habit of being the most adorable, sweet, lovely, friendly person you ever saw in your whole life with OTHER very select people. So I don't complain about her around people who don't actually know the way she really is. They'd just think I'm terrible.

Mom is moving out of our house to an apartment in a continuum care facility week after next. The upgrade work that unit needed will be done by then, and she is sufficiently miserable in our house that she really does want to move out. She hates it with us because I make her get up, get dressed, and eat food, not just peanut butter crackers in PJs all day long. I don't coddle or baby her. Every morning it's "I don't know if I can sit up" or "I don't think I can sit up". But she inevitably does after a bit of rolling around on the bed, ugly faces, and whining. I just remind her that I am not in physical condition to sit her up, so she's just going to have to try to do it again today. Use your tummy, not your back.

You would think that waking up in soaked PJs, Depends + 3 Poise Pads would be a great incentive to get moving and get out of all that.

Sandwich42,
OMG! I feel for your being an only child, having to deal with your Mom's bad behaviors! Your descriptions of her antics sound soooo familiar!
I really like your "bubble"--wish I'd figured that one out in time for it to do any good, here.
At least my Mom wouldn't EVER have done anything to directly harm an infant--she always was great with babies--it was when they reach about 2 or 3 y.o., then she seemed to start projecting behaviors and things on them [most terrible child, etc.]

At least [no matter how ugly they all made it] my Mom got moved outta here after 6 years of he!!.
Your solutions for your Mom may be for moving her to a facility....not sure how...we were told that elders with bad behaviors would likely be kicked out of care facilities. [[though there sure are plenty of them in them]].

As long as Mom is kept safe, fed, tended to, your limit setting is a good thing.
She's got enough of her reasoning abilities still, she surely can understand limits--though,
from her behaviors described, she's probly not had anyone set --reasonable-- limits on her in her whole life---a history of trying to survive a bad family life, usually begets strange coping mechanisms--hers being dramatic scenes trying to grab attention & manipulate others.

I pray your limit-setting starts working better, soon; not holding breath though. Keep up your good work!

My survival/coping tactics have been: move as far away as possible nearly 20 years ago and build my own life based on love, acceptance, and pretty much doing the opposite of what she's always done. Limit visit frequency & duration. 3 days is it. Don't tell her much of anything about my life, my kids, anything. Emotionally detach. I have an invisible "bubble" around me she's not allowed inside of. It's a mental image I used to use a lot, and am using again recently. When she's stressing me out, I picture her standing outside my bubble ranting & raving, pitching her futile little tantrums, but the noise is garbled and she's out of focus.

Now that she's living in my home and causing no end of trouble and stress, pitching hissy fits, threats, and doing some Academy award winning performances nightly, the detachment is critical. My kids (teens) go straight to their rooms to avoid her. I am the only person who will spend any time with her in the evening, and I limit that. I go to "bed" early. My kids come into my room and we snuggle & watch TV together upstairs until real bedtime. My husband stays in his man-cave until bedtime.

She is mean as a snake and twice as ugly, as they say back home. I feel like my responsibility is to see to her safety and that is all. She will be safe in the place we are putting her. There's food, medical people if needed, and activities. It doesn't have to be me. I am not out to see her happy or well-adjusted or even comfortable, since she never has been and never will be any of those things. I don't care if she makes friends or not. She will be safe and fed. That's the beginning and end of my obligation and interest.

I'm an only child, and my husband is my hero through this. Mom was really acting up last night, and I laid down the law. You have two choices: behave and be a good example OR go to your room and shut the door. I will not tolerate bratty, spoiled, ugly behavior in my home from anybody. You will absolutely not meddle in my marriage by bad-mouthing my husband. That man is a saint for letting you move in, doing a lot of hard labor for the move that cost him precious vacation time, and keeping his opinions to himself about you. That's the way it's going to be - the end.

My punishment later in the evening was for her "fall" on the stairs. She didn't really fall. There was no "thud". She beat on the wall with her fist and sat down on the stairs and pretended she couldn't talk or move, just whine and make animal noises. I think she was trying to trick me into thinking she had a stroke, but she didn't show real stroke signs. I've seen stroke and that was not it. She got herself into an office chair using both arms and I pushed her into her room to go to bed. When I reached for one of her 17 pill bottles, she suddenly regained the ability to talk to tell me in a very nasty voice to put her bottles right back and don't move them. Miraculous!

She took one of every kind, regardless of the Rx instructions or me repeating what the bottle said or that whichever one was not for night time. Whatever. I made her lie down. I turned off the lights and told her she was to shut her eyes, go to sleep, and be good in the morning.

This morning, the show went on. She said she couldn't sit up and had wet the bed big time. Again, I went to pick up pill bottles and another miracle happened - she sat up! It took a lot of hollering and moaning and wailing, but she did it. I made her sit up to clear her lungs (no, you don't have pneumonia) and she did walk into the bathroom to change herself out of the wet PJs, accompanied by a few verses of "Why Lord do you make me keep living?" and everybody's favorite "I wish I was dead". No comment! By the way, there was no bruise or mark of any kind on her leg or butt where she said she fell. This woman bruises if you look at her hard, so I really don't buy the fall routine this time.

She has a long history of punishing me & my dad (when he was alive), with medical episodes of one kind or another. If she's ticked or didn't get her way, look out. The strange thing is, if you offer to call 911 or take her to the ER or call the doctor, it all seems to clear up very rapidly. Interesting. She faked a heart attack at Stone Mountain on our vacation when I was about 10, faked a suicide attempt the night I was supposed to go to prom, another fake heart attack on my wedding day, and "fell" on the stairs holding my newborn son. She's cried wolf so often, nobody believes her anymore, so nobody comes running, which ticks her off extra. No, I never let her hold any of my babies again.

She went between "don't leave me here" and "get the h- - - away from me" several times in the span of about 10 minutes. I never touched her, I just offered her my arm for support, which she didn't want, and kept asking what kind of help do you want? None? Well OK. I have to get going to work then. Good luck with everything.

Hugs and encouragement from my corner. I have a 76 year old BPD/NPD mother living with me who also has dementia and OCD. She's only with us temporarily until her apartment is ready at the care facility, but it has been 3 weeks of pure non-stop hell on earth for all of us to get her out of her home in another state and moved to where we are. She was in a hoarder house, which made the packing & moving process triple the normal work, if not more. I have not lived with her under the same roof since 1989, but a lot of the old stuff sure has come back fast in such a short time. I think it's worse on my kids & husband as they have never lived with a person who is such a complicated box of nuts.