At what point did Covid become 100% political and not based on science for you? My turning point was yesterday.

Stacy, unfortunately people can't, or WON'T be responsible.    That was made clear last year, when some people deliberately flaunted (and some still are) just masking.   I've run into a few of those, including one jerk who not only wouldn't mask, he walked down supermarket aisles on the wrong side, forcing others to just get out of his way.    The look on his face was kind of smirky; I assumed he had some "issues" and needed to manipulate others.

Another was a woman whose religion was obvious by her son's hair attire, who ignored the single lines for supermarket checkout, moved right up into the aisle while I was packing, and begin unloading her purchases.    Neither she or the 3 kids with her were masked.    I told her the protocol is that she does NOT move into the aisle to unload until the current customer has left the aisle.

That should have been pretty simple, but for her it wasn't.   So I glared at her.  Finally she got the message.   

I did watch part of Whitmer's performance but have reached the point that I can't stand listening to her or watching her grinning and mugging for the camera.   I couldn't help thinking what a disaster she would create if Biden had chosen her for VP. 

I still think she's auditioning for another political run when her term expires.  And I'm really thinking that her latest proclamation tying vaccination rates to re-opening (that's as far as I got before switching channels) is another reflection of her need to control.   I can imagine another press conference when she brags about how she's inspired Michiganders to get vaccinated.

Majority of people wore masks during the 1918-1920 pandemic. And there were some who refused to wear masks back then, also refused to social distance, and placed themselves into situation where there were hundreds of people [Mayors would have huge parades, people packed in shoulder to shoulder along the streets]. During that pandemic 675,000 died in the United States.

History is repeating itself step by step with the covid-19. I am not kidding, the same things are happening and the United States is not far behind the death rate with 575,000 deaths. This pandemic will continue probably until the spring of 2021 if it is following the idential route of the 1918-1920 pandemic.

Amazing, we haven't learned a thing in those 100 years.

Please, please note, covid-19 doesn't care how healthy a person is, it can still infect you.

kellse, no it is not crazy, you are wise in doing so. We plan to continue to wear our masks inside of stores, even though we are fully vaccinated, and had finished our two week wait for the vaccine to do it thing.

The vaccines are not 100%. The vaccines will protect us from getting so sick we need hospitalization or from dying. To me the vaccines were worth getting. We still can get covid-19 but on a much smaller scale.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19-so-what-can-you-safely-do-2021032522230 which is a good read and guideline.

With States opening up now, and with less than 50% being fully vaccinated, but still millions who didn't get their required 2nd shot, I have a gut feeling we are going to see another wave.... [sigh]

I am seriously thinking about wearing my mask after they lift the mandate here.
I know that seems crazy

GA, people cant be responsible.

Did you by any chance watch the Gov. today? Miss I listen to science. When was one vaccine in people's arms justify her ending restrictions. Then for her to say I am getting my second vaccine today and having a get together tonight with my friends to think of ways to torment our kids or whatever her exact words were.

My mom who has defended her called me and said you are still going to wear a mask right? One of her co workers was fully vaccinated, sets up meds at elderly homes and tested positive but no severe symptoms. My mom thinks its because she got busted in Florida. She's a trip.

Stacy wrote:   "I think if people just acted a little more responsible, things would get better."

Stacy, sorry but I have to disagree with you.   You're assuming facts not in evidence, specifically that some people actually can act responsibly.   Based on what I've read and seen, it's clear that some people either don't know how or won't.    Their actions aren't controllable, and they'll continue to ignore safety protocol while perhaps/possibly exposing others.

Sp, sorry about your cat.

I think its when people became irresponsible and acted selfish. My client, seriously, its like monkeys running the zoo. His Administration Manger (glorified title for Secretary) is a Covid denier, as in it does not exist. Yesterday, they had a luncheon for a global company's retiree group, over capacity limit to begin with. I was using the bathroom, her 2nd grader ran in. I said I thought schools were open, yeah 10 of her friends tested positive so she is in quarantine for 14 days. Mom doesnt believe in Covid, doesnt test her. In my opinion, it was idiotic and insane. So I said to the owner, you put billboards up about Covid safety, make employees where pins, yet you let employees whose kids are supposed to be in quarantine come to work around a bunch of elderly from major company, not a good look vacinated or not. By the way, this employer pays without sick or using vacation time to care for family in quarantine.

I think if people just acted a little more responsible, things would get better.

I had to wait in the car while my cat got an x-ray today to see if his cancer spread because God forbid I could go inside the vets office to actually see a human face when i am told the mass has grown and he probably will be gone by the time summer is over. I can only imagine the pain that has been caused by so many people dealing with human loved ones they can't see because of covid. When did our compassion as people lose out to fear of something that has an over 98% survivability rate?

Amen, Isthisrealyreal!

Vernacular, hogwash. The media is the reason for all the bs with covid being so confusing.

I am so sick of people laying everything at President Trump's door, he didn't do 90% of what was alleged, so take your politics to a different forum, this is the wrong place to beat your drum.

I just wonder why the packaging on my mask says it doesn't protect against covid.

I haven't had a turning point because I can tell Junk science and misinformation from real science and accurate information.
Some of us here remember the lack of response that the Regan Administration gave to the beginning of the AIDS pandemic. Some of us also remember the response given at the almost the same time given to Legionnaires' disease. If you compare the two the differences are clearly political. It took the death of Rock Hudson to even get Regan to recognize the AIDS pandemic.

If you don't want to wear a mask don't, but look to high profile cases like Ted Nugent and realize that he made this political and he got COVID.

Do some research on the Shingles vaccine. Everyone that has had Chicken Pox is at risk for developing Shingles. Shingles can lead to blindness. A safe highly effective vaccine is out there and is covered by insurance. Every year seniors get Shingles and wonder why they got this. If they had gotten the vaccine they may not have gotten it. No one is politicizing the Shingles vaccine.

Anyone who doesn't think COVID is a real or is just like the flu/a bad cold, only needs to look at what's going on in India and Brazil right now.

Myownlife - China now has the highest percentage of OLD people in the world. Due to the one child policy, their society now has a structure which they call 4-2-1 meaning 2 adults supporting 4 elderly parents and 1 child. In another generation or so when current adults become elderly and the current elderly keep on living, that structure will become 8-4-2-1(2) meaning 2 adults supporting their 4 aging parents and 8 sick grandparents and the 1 or 2 children. Imagine that. What a nightmare that will be.

Their healthcare system is already under tremendous pressure financially and there aren't enough doctors or hospitals to serve the aging population.

During the time of one-child policy, China has aborted and killed millions of baby girls. China does not have human rights, so it is not a stretch at all for China to eliminate the non-productive and very sick elderly population through a virus. Certainly not impossible.

The Covid positivity rate here is highest among 10 to 19 year olds with the majority of ICU patients being people in their 30s and 40s. That is the kid's parent ages, ugh. I think remote learning is better right now.

We had this stupid fish festival in my township over the weekend. I drove thru town to go to a Amish greenhouse. The Amish do not wear masks due to religion and it is outdoors, social distanced and you drop your money into a box. The festival, omg, no mask, just a free for all with the beer tents and carnival rides and garbage sales.

MIOSHA has a draft of a permanant pandemic safety plan online, where the workplace restrictions like masks, heath screening, etc will never leave...but they are not enforced so no clue how that will work. The manufacturing sector has a waiver of state sales tax for all PPE, cleaning supplies, etc. They tried extending it to smaller businesses like restaurants. That got the govenor veto.

I feel she is no longer following science especially now that she mislead the public and went to FL. Blames lawsuits for not listening. Its scary we will need to pick in the next election between her and Romney's niece, yuck to both.

When the lockdowns in certain states became never-ending and there was no plan in sight allowing small businesses and public schools to reopen. It's easy for people in D.C. and the state capitals who make well over $100K a year and have Cadillac health insurance plans and pensions to tell people "stay home". Millions of Americans have needlessly suffered because of politicians. Rant over.

MyOwnLife wrote:

"the virus was developed in a Chinese lab... China, the communist country that until recent times had a STRICT one-child policy, in which the government enforced abortions and sterilization. So, what quicker way to reduce their population than to create a virus to reduce their population quickly."

First, there's a lot of controversy over the origin of the virus, especially if you listened to "that other guy".    This controversy has been raised to a level higher than which baseball team is better than another.   I doubt it ever will be resolved, or at least, not in my lifetime.

As to reducing population quickly, the Chinese are aggressive and implementing military upgrades to enhance their ability and desire to dominate the world.    I haven't followed their population fluctuation, but it's to their advantage to have citizens which can enhance their world domination goals at all levels, especially the tech field and the military.

My SIL who did his PhD in virology explained that the COVID vaccines are 'built' upon already existing base vaccines. They were NOT hastily mixed up in labs and released, willy-nilly to the public.

They did the due diligence, as best they could, b/c the world was SCREAMING for a cure/vaccine.

People don't understand the length of time it takes to get a new vaccine out for use--years--usually, but COVID was already 'in the works'. Being a Dr. he told us there would be a vaccine right about the time they rolled out the first ones.

I can't do the science for you or anyone else. When my SIL told me it was safe, I was thrilled to get it.

I won't argue politics, as it is too stressful for me. I read/view enough to know what's going on in the world and then try to make my little neck of the woods the best I can.

COVID is real. It has killed a lot of people and damaged a lot more. My 58 yo YB has long term lung damage now. He's just hoping to get better, in time. As an EMT, he got covid from some patient. How in the world is that political?

It became political when the former president decided he would downplay the seriousness of the contagion and sold to his numerous followers that it would either dissipate or that a disproved medication would "cure" it. Then he convinced his followers that masks wouldn't work and that scientist were somehow part of an anti-djt cabal. Unfortunately, his supporters bought into it hook, line, and sinker and no amount of science will convince them otherwise. Now they wear their masklessness as a sign of pride and "freedom" to be virus vectors.

I finally took my mother ( 96 ) and myself ( 67 ) for the Moderna vaccines and had the 2nd one a week and a half ago.

The tip of the iceberg that made my decision was the anxiety of indecision on my part. I had been so stressed as to get it or not, that finally I reasoned that at least if I get it, I won't have that stress again. Luckily for us, it seems to be a good decision. Of course, remember, none of us know whether there will be any long-term effects from this vaccine. I pray there aren't.

But over the last year and worrying over the history of all other past vaccines that went wrong and this seemingly hastily put-together new vaccine in less than a year, it was a very hard decision.

Also, I had covid in June/July last year, not hospitalized, but neither my mother, nor my daughter and her boyfriend who all live in the same household, became positive or sick. And for me, I had read of the strong possibility of a more severe disease that a second case of it might bring.

On a separate note, How in the world could there be such a hastily put together vaccine, for a brand new virus, inside the space of a year, but after years and years of research, no cure for cancer, no cure for Alzheimer's, no cure for all the other diseases ? HOW is that possible ? Political ? Of course it is ..... the virus was developed in a Chinese lab... China, the communist country that until recent times had a STRICT one-child policy, in which the government enforced abortions and sterilization. So, what quicker way to reduce their population than to create a virus to reduce their population quickly.

And in my own state, my daughter was searching online for a lab job and came across an ad for a lab 20 miles outside of a major city which is developing a 100% fatal virus with no known cure. So, political? Yes, very political.

A couple of users mentioned educators in their posts. I thought I would share my personal experience as an educator and caregiver. First, I would like to establish that I am a 38 y/o caregiver who is taking care of a 78 y/o LO with congestive heart failure, diabetes, cirrhosis of the liver (fatty liver disease), COPD, and vascular dementia. The 78 y/o is also an educator - once an educator, always an educator. She lives at an ALF. Currently, I teach at a university in NC. When the pandemic started, my university shut down, moving from f2f to online instruction. It has been over a year since I have stepped foot inside a classroom. Many of my students have contracted the virus not because of partying or not being responsible but because of working - frontline workers, including caregiving workers. And many of them do have long-haul Covid. For instance, one student contracted the virus in November. They now have problems with their kidneys. Currently, I have student who is throwing up and coughing up blood. Again, the student contracted Covid from work. While I realize that many younger folks may be behaving in ways that can potentially spread the virus, many younger folks are trying to do their part. As an educator, I have done the best I can with what I have, and I know that all of my friends who are educators have also done the same. Although people often think that educators have some kind of superhuman agency at their workplaces, the majority of them do not. If folks are upset in some way about educators doing things or not doing things, one may want to speak to one's educational county board or university system since it is administrators who make the decisions about what happens in classrooms, not educators. I can honestly tell you that my voice played no part in decisions that were made at my university. Personally, I have a close friend in Wyoming who contracted the virus while working at a hotel. She contracted Covid in November. She now has heart and lung problems because of Covid, and she's scared. She's really scared. She's approximately the same age as me. Like many caregivers who participate in the forum, my mother's ALF was locked down until about a month ago. Last August, she fell, which meant sitting with her in the ER. As a result of the ER visit, I had to quarantine. Over the past month, she has been hospitalized twice for low sodium. Again, I stayed with her while wearing a mask while sleeping in a hospital recliner. In short, I have been in and out hospitals with my LO. What have I seen? Not very good things. People were/are coming in really sick with Covid, really sick. Thankfully, my LO received the vaccine in January - Moderna vaccine. I received my vaccine in March - Pfizer vaccine. My partner who also helps with caregiving also received her vaccine in March - Moderna. Although not a requirement, if I want to teach f2f in a class in the Fall, I need the vaccine. And if I want to see my LO, I need the vaccine. I don't have any feelings about vaccines except to get them. So, if folks want to know more about Covid, the best places to go to learn more about Covid is by reading recently published scientific literature from peer-reviewed journals. Although many will experience a paywall when using Google Scholar and Microsoft Academic, many folks can find some good stuff that is accessible to the public. Or, if someone has access to one's local community college or university databases, one can also use those databases. I apologize if I sound rather than salty. I admit that I am salty. I am a burnt out, overwhelmed, and exhausted educator who is tired of hearing people blame educators for things that are out of their control and an exhausted, overwhelmed caregiver who wants to do things right by her LO.

Interesting, we just spent a week in the Dominican Republic. A third world country, as you may know.

Every single time my husbamd, who is forgetful, not non-compliant, lost or forgot his mask, one of the Dominican guys--drivers, porters, airport attendents, et al (and man, are they macho men!!) said "Sir, you need a mask!".

What is going on here in the US is a national disgrace, imho.

What I am going to say is completely horrible, I understand that and no one can be harder on me than I am on myself.

So my client, Covid King. He has this "manager" who has some type of cancer that affects .5% of the world's population. Once diagnosed, you die within 3 yrs. His dream is to run a wedding venue. But the blood, spit up and nose bleeds. Its just gross, blood all over the woman's bathroom because he cant get sick in the urinals. He is trying to budget so bathrooms are only cleaned before events. Its gross.

He will not get vaccine because he is going to die anyway, wont wear a mask and no one will around him because no one wants him to feel bad. His asst. went to Fla. no mask, anti vaccine, for anything. So that is alot of my mask cleanliness thing.

I try not to be heartless, my opinion, have him do back office. Its the blood and the lack of any type of precaution...Covid or otherwise. Its nasty.

Stacy, I first started masking in mid-Feb., 2020.   At the laundrymat one day, I heard some childish man-boys snickering over my outfit.  (I also overcompensated, wearing work type eye protection and a plastic shower cap on my head!).   

One of the boys explained that I was outfitted like that b/c of the virus.  The others snickered.    They were sitting right next to next other, talking and laughing.    If I had cared, I would have wondered later if any of them got the virus.

What irks me is the increasingly aggressive push to get vaccinated, while ignoring those who still aren't even complying with masking or social distancing.   I saw a photo of alleged students at a Florida spring break, literally packed in like the proverbial sardines.  I only saw a few masks.   

If they incite another outbreak, the tv doctors will probably engage in another push for everyone who hasn't been vaccinated to get a shot.  Those who won't will continue to ignore safety and perhaps just continue to spread the virus.

GA, I read the post.

I am just annoyed. Sorry. So yesterday, I am at the Covid client, the people there make fun of me over the masks, no big deal. If thats the best they have, I make fun of myself over worse. One employee, the maintenance guy, said what will you do if I cough on you, came up and coughed. That is just the total disrespect, I am done with. A$$holes need to be fined if they cannot respect others. I choose to wear a mask and it does not harm others and I guess, I just want others to respect my choices for myself.

Cwillie, if you are interested, John Hopkins is the one releasing the data. No, the border is not secure up here. It is different though for certain reasons. I used to work at a plant, the plant manager was wanted for warrants (child support) in Canada. Border Control always picked up the Hispanics, go figure. Anyway, if you are in a "relationship," you can cross over and get a vaccine. Christ, you can use me and say "online relationship," I dont care. I think it is terrible we are holding the "good" vaccines for us.

Rovana, I expect her not to lie and follow science. I supported her until she did not. She got on TV yesterday, just straight out lied when confronted about her new staff and head of health dept vacationing down south not vaccinated. There were travel restrictions at the onset so I do not understand the denial. That is what upsets me.

@Sgcinsd: The narrative was crafted by The Media. Fear makes people read/watch the news. Fear sells ad space. It's all about the money. There is no gray area anymore. No one can have a civil conversation. This is America, where you're supposedly allowed to have your own opinion, and respect others regardless of whether they have the same opinion. The "reporting" is all black and white and rarely parses the plusses and minuses of anything. It's all accusatory or completely exculpatory. The "facts" are always adapted towards one opinion or the other. I can't trust any of it. I have to watch/read lots of sources to decide what's my reality.

Gotta get off this high horse before I fall off, lol!

C willie, I was referring to the teachers in parts of the US who are refusing to go back into their classrooms, but yet are volunteering to teach immigrant children. There were two teachers in the district where I live who refused to return to the classroom. Instead of doing their job, they gathered up supplies and took up donations to go to the border in Texas to teach children who are being held there.

I began to be skeptical about political motivation when I realized the media and government were putting maximum emphasis on case rates and rarely reporting survival/ recovery rates. The narrative was crafted to feed fear: we're all going to die! Well, no, we're not. Older people and people with compromised immune systems were always the most vulnerable, but even then the survival/recovery rates have been astoundingly high. They just went under-reported. So why lock down the whole country and tank the economy? If the powers that be truly believe what they've been feeding us, why have they so often been caught on camera scoffing at their own mandates? Why were so many of those.mandates insanely arbitrary? Like strip clubs were allowed to operate indoors but churches couldn't. Why was no distinction made between people who died OF covid versus people who died WITH covid?. There are reputable data that indicate the US death rate year over year hasn't changed significantly; the causes of deaths have just been reassigned. But I guess the real turning point for me was when they started arresting people for worshipping but turned a blind eye on rioters. Could the virus tell the difference?
Was this a serious epidemic? Yes. Has the government's reaction to it been an overreach? I think so. Others may feel differently and I respect that.

I'm on the other side of the border and I'm watching the correlation too, it seem too much to accept it is just a coincidence. Somebody's been bringing this $hit in from the UK and Brazil so the border hasn't been as closed and secure as we pretend it is.
I'm not sure what Bridger means by American kids first, it is obvious to all of us waiting for vaccines that America has no intention of sharing anything, we got AstraZeneca as a "loan" and only because it was expiring and there is no intention of ever approving it there - I imagine you will be sending away J&J as well.